Rattlesnake by Dave_E - Model Shipways - 1:64

[Dave_E]

Hi Ed,

 

Thanks for the comments, by all means copy anything I might do. That’s what’s cool about this forum! I found your build log and am following! 👍😀

Edited October 21, 2022 by Dave_E

[Dave_E]

Hi Fellers,

 

Well since I knew it would be dusty… I went to the workbench in the garage, 45 degrees and windy outside, got some righteous 70’s top 40 on the speaker and got the bow filler blocks pretty roughed in and started on the stern blocks. My mother in law is living with us for the month of November, that and the weather has turned to winter… I think I’ll be in the shipyard a good deal this month as next month we’re off to Hawaii for the whole month. Kids bought us tickets… who could say no to a month and Christmas on the Big Island? 😎🌴

I do not like shaping solid blocks! My hat is off to you guys who fill in between the bulkheads or carve solid hulls! 
 

[Dave_E]

Good Evening Fellow Ship Dudes,

 

I need help from those of you who have built the MS Rattlesnake. As you can see by the pictures below, the stern doesn’t come close to the drawing. Did you have this condition? If so, what did you do to remedy? if not, what did I do wrong? 😖

 

 

[mtaylor]

From the last photo, your stern is too high up. Drop it down such that it goes under those two tabs. (one on each side).

[Dave_E]

Then the bottom of the stern is way below the contour block… 😕
 

Here is a picture of the Britannia stern carving… let’s just say the fit is terrible, doesn’t come close to the drawing. This pot metal will snap if I try to bend it. I have reviewed all the Rattlesnake builds I can… and there is a mix-mash of fits, some good, others not. I have double checked my stern counter block, all pretty close. 😑

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Dave_E

[Oldsalt1950]

Mine rests just under those two tabs. 

[Keith Black]

 Dave, it would seem you need to cut a new stern piece. The Britannia stern carving encroaches on the outside window edges which doesn't look right. Does the Britannia stern carving fit to the transom blocks without issue? 

[Oldsalt1950]

That curve on the Britania stern piece can be made correct by taking a trigger operated bar clamp and reversing the action making it a spreader. Just go slowly. It also won't mar the edges of the decorative piece.

[Gregory]

Another something you might try, is to sand the back of the Britannia piece and make it as thin as you can. 

Heating it with a hair dryer while shaping on a curved surface might help.

[Ed Ku20]

Dave, I'm not quite ready for the transom, but when I did a quick test fit with the carving, mine looks just like yours!  I read someone's log where they put the metal in boiling water and then bent it open to fit!!  I'm not looking forward to this step!  My lower right inside edge looks even more gnarly then yours.  I don't know how to fix that either.  Maybe a metal shaping bitt on the Dremel?  I'll be watching with interest to see how you proceed with yours.

[Kenneth Powell]

The metal is easy to bend by hand if you take your time and progress slowly - no heating required. I filed, sanded and bent by hand both the wood and metal a little at a time until they fit each other and the hull.

 

Hope this helps.

- Kenneth

[Dave_E]

Thanks Everyone, 

 

Will work on it later today, let you know how it goes.

[martimous]

Hey Dave! Hope you don't mind if I look over your shoulder. Rattlesnake looks like an interesting build, and it's next up for me I think after I finish my Santa Maria.

I was reading on another guy's blog over at "Ages of Sail" where he takes the bulkheads and draws their outline on a sheet of paper then flips them over and re-draws the outline. He says this highlights the differences in symmetry on the part, and I was a little puzzled by this at first because I thought laser cut bulkheads should be perfecto. I guess your experience here with this kit shows that's not necessarily so... 

[Dave_E]

3 minutes ago, martimous said:

Hey Dave! Hope you don't mind if I look over your shoulder. Rattlesnake looks like an interesting build, and it's next up for me I think after I finish my Santa Maria.

I was reading on another guy's blog over at "Ages of Sail" where he takes the bulkheads and draws their outline on a sheet of paper then flips them over and re-draws the outline. He says this highlights the differences in symmetry on the part, and I was a little puzzled by this at first because I thought laser cut bulkheads should be perfecto. I guess your experience here with this kit shows that's not necessarily so... 

Hi Marty,

 

Absolutely Brother, look at not only mine but there about 4 other builds of the Rattlesnake going on. I am here to tell you, the lazer cut parts are NOT perfect. Having been in the manufacturing business for many years I can tell you that every so often, a company has to recalibrate their tooling. In this case Model Shipways is WAY past due and their drawings could use some tune up work... in my humble opinion. The very thing you mentioned has been the constant in all the recent builds of the the Rattlesnake on this forum. Nothing that cannot be overcome however.

 

Welcome aboard! 😀

[Gregory]

55 minutes ago, martimous said:

I thought laser cut bulkheads should be perfecto.

Something to keep in mind.  The laser cut parts are perfect. 

They are perfect copies of the files that are sent to the laser..😉

 

I am using the MS plans for my scratch build of Rattlesnake,  and I am also seeing a problem with the symmetry and fairing  of the bulkheads.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Gregory

[Dave_E]

Hi All,

 

Think I’ve got the stern piece figured out… little sanding here and there. Stumbled upon this…

 

What did you do to make the window frames fit, shims? Would the windows have been flush with the inside or the outside. I was thinking outside, then there would be a “window sill” inside the structure, just like in our homes. I’ve seen build logs that go both ways. Opinions?

[Oldsalt1950]

Will you be planking the transom? If so, the cut you pieces a little long and fit the windows from behind and make them flush with the planking. Either way I'd have the windows flush with the outside of the transom. Did you get the fashion piece curved to match the transom?

[Kenneth Powell]

Mine fit pretty snug and I was able to make them flush to the inside of the transom. They give the appearance of being recessed.

You could fill the gaps with really thin wood strips or card stock.

 

Hope this helps - Kenneth

[Dave_E]

1 hour ago, Oldsalt1950 said:

Will you be planking the transom? If so, the cut you pieces a little long and fit the windows from behind and make them flush with the planking. Either way I'd have the windows flush with the outside of the transom. Did you get the fashion piece curved to match the transom?

Good thought. I’ll look over the build logs and all the finished photos I can and then decide. I’m going to assume that if I was building for physical accuracy, it would surely be planked. The fashion piece is next… I definitely have to open it up. 

[Dave_E]

Spent the afternoon looking at build logs and any completed paint schemes I could find for the Rattlesnake. I love it when the instructions have written words for what color and where, but no references on the drawings… and they don’t match the model on the box cover. 😳 I like the thin blue lines I see on some of the build logs.

[Gregory]

Gold/yellow details with a blue background seems pretty common...

 

I'm not sure we have any reference for what the actual color scheme might have been..

 

From an artistic standpoint, some sort of consistency across the model would seem to be in order..

 

I'm going with wood myself..😁

Edited November 12, 2022 by Gregory

[Gregory]

I'm sure you all have looked at the NMM drawings, but for what it's worth, here's a little review.

I've indicated the area that appears to be recessed, but we can't know for sure..   

Where I noted " open',  Hahn believed this space was open and built his model that way.  I don't  recall seeing it open on any other models.

I haven't decided how I will go on my model.  I'm leaning toward closed, with the idea that the draftsman was just showing the lines of the stern framing behind the transom.

 

[martimous]

For those newbies that are still catching up (like me...), closed vs. open means planked versus not?

[Gregory]

[Dave_E]

I sanded down the stern piece so I could plank it without it being so fat it wouldn’t fit and look way out of proportion. I’ve got the planks. I glued a bunch of them together and made a “plank” board and thought about tracing the stern onto it and cut out the window openings. 😳

 

Or… glue each plank on and cut the openings piece by piece. That sounds better to me now that I ask about it. What do you think?

 

[Oldsalt1950]

I'd go one plank at a time myself. Don't forget about the decorative piece. You have to plan for that too

 

Jim

[Dave_E]

Hi Fellow Snake Builders and Followers,

 

Settled on a paint scheme…. much like most of the British vessels of that era. Made a couple color chips to compare ME paints vs Admiralty. The Rattlesnake plans have us painting the hull with what they call “Hull Tallow”, which is on top of the white paint chip. 😳 We are so used to seeing “flat or mat white bottoms that this creamy looking color looks out of place. In real life… it was probably more authentic that nice bright white. I’m trying to visualize this on the Lady Nelson and am having a hard time. 
 

I’m also going to paint the bulwarks red occre and not the grey MS has in the paint set and in the instructions. I can’t find any Admiralty paint other than sets and MS does not have a red occre! Any other suggestions for red occre? I don’t care for the bright red that some call gun carriage red, just me.
 

 

I know I’m getting ahead of myself (nowhere near paint), just spent some time planning today. 😀

Edited November 19, 2022 by Dave_E

[David Lester]

You can buy Admiralty Paint red ochre individually at Cornwall Model Boats. ( https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/admiralty_paints_water.html ) Whenever I need something small like that, I just make up an order of staples - masking tape, drill bits, xacto blades etc. until I have a large enough order to justify the shipping cost.

David

[Paul Le Wol]

8 hours ago, Dave_E said:

 

I’m also going to paint the bulwarks red occre and not the grey MS has in the paint set and in the instructions. I can’t find any Admiralty paint other than sets and MS does not have a red occre! Any other suggestions for red occre? I don’t care for the bright red that some call gun carriage red, just me.
 

 

Hi Dave, I used Liquitex Red Oxide on my Nordland Boat. Difficult to tell until you see it in real life but as far as reds go I think it’s one of the nicer ones.
 

 

 

[Kenneth Powell]

My bottom white was interior latex satin house trim paint from Lowe's. It flowed well and covered well, and I had a bunch of it. Also, I knew how it would look because I used it on most of the trim in my house. The black is latex satin from Home Depot sold in a small can. I did use the gray at first but didn't like it, so I painted red over it. I brought the admiral to Michael's and went through all the shades of the colors I wanted for the model in the craft paint section. Again, they flowed well and covered well and I do like the results. Keep the box open and think outside of it and call on your knowledge and experiences (and the admiral's).

 

- Kenneth