Edwardkenway Posted August 8, 2022 Share #61 Posted August 8, 2022 Looks really good Dave, nice work👍 Keith Black, mtaylor, Mr Whippy and 1 other 3 1 Quote Current builds; Henry Ramey Upcher 1:25 Providence whaleboat- 1:25 HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 Completed: HM Cutter Sherbourne- 1:64- finished Triton cross section scratch- 1:60 - finished Non ship: SBD-3 Dauntless 1:48 Hasegawa -FINISHED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafine Posted August 8, 2022 Share #62 Posted August 8, 2022 Dave, you're off to a great start. Over the course of my 50+ years of model building, I've actually done Rattlesnake twice. Unfortunately, I don't have either model, no photos and very little memory of the building process to be able to offer much specific help. I do recall that I enjoyed building them, and hope that you will, as well. Bob rudybob, Mr Whippy, Dave_E and 3 others 5 1 Quote Current builds on MSW: HMS Winchelsea 1:48: Medway Longboat 1:24 Prior builds on MSW: Schooner Halifax: Lumberyard 1/48 semi-scratch; Cutter Cheerful 1:48; Granado: Caldercraft 1:64; Frigate Essex: Kitbashed Model Shipways kit; Triton Cross Section 1:48; Kingfisher from Lauckstreet kit; Syren: Model shipways kit ;Kitbashed Fair American: Model Shipways;Prince de Neufchatel: Model shipways 1:64 Civil War Picket Boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javajohn Posted August 8, 2022 Share #63 Posted August 8, 2022 She's looking great Dave! One thing I found out about those little stabilizing blocks: When I started planking, I realized I needed to cut them back a bit from the edge of the bulkheads so I could attach clamps to those areas of the bulkheads. I'm using office paper clamps with some wood glued on them to push down in the plank. Dave_E, Keith Black, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote John Current Build: Rattlesnake (Model Shipways 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldsalt1950 Posted August 8, 2022 Share #64 Posted August 8, 2022 Looking good, Dave. The bow and stern blocks should be next, make plenty of templates, you'll need them. Jim Keith Black, Dave_E, Mr Whippy and 1 other 3 1 Quote Current Build: Fair American - Model Shipways Awaiting Parts - Rattlesnake On the Shelf - English Pinnace 18Th Century Longboat I stand firmly against piracy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_E Posted August 9, 2022 Author Share #65 Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) Hi Everyone, Today I cut out the fillers for the bow… that went OK, but I noticed something while in the garage using the band saw. The bulkheads look like something is wrong between bulkheads (H) and (I). The first photo shows a plank down low near the garboard… looks good, things work and I haven’t tapered any bulkheads yet. One more even higher up. Now this second photo shows the same plank up higher in the “A” band area. See that crazy bend upward? Almost looks like the bulkhead in between the clamps is too big, or the one with the aft clamp isn’t big enough. Of course all bulkheads were checked against the plans and bulkheads (H) and (I) have very little to NO tapering. 😳 You who have built or are building chime in please. I’m afraid if I ignore it and plank up the gun ports and the wales, I’ll have an “oh s***” moment when I start to do the hull planking. Edited August 9, 2022 by Dave_E mtaylor, AJohnson, lmagna and 3 others 6 Quote Dave Current builds: Rattlesnake Completed builds: Lady Nelson On the shelf: NRG Half Hull Project, Various metal, plastic and paper models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted August 9, 2022 Share #66 Posted August 9, 2022 I had some trouble in that area also with my laser cut bulkheads that I made symmetrical before cutting. I will be doing some filling to smooth things out. Unfortunately you won't have that luxury with single planking. You may have to build up or shave off the the bulkheads to make things fair. Keith Black, Mr Whippy, Paul Le Wol and 1 other 3 1 Quote “Indecision may or may not be my problem.” ― Jimmy Buffett Current builds: Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathead Posted August 9, 2022 Share #67 Posted August 9, 2022 Yeah, those are definitely not right. Are there similar or mirrored problems on the port side? I remember a kit once where the bulkheads weren't symmetrical and only worked right if they went in using a specific orientation (i.e., flipped one way they all matched up, but if one was flipped the other way it was too short on one side and too wide on the other). Too late to flip bulkheads. Definitely needs to be fixed before planking. Even in your first photo, I'd swear things don't look quite right though it could be a trick of the light. I'd recommend clamping a test plank to every bulkhead and seeing where you find any odd kinks. Given the work you've done so far, the only real way to fix any problems is to fill in missing space using strips of wood curved over the bulkhead, and carve out excess wood, until you get a smooth run of planking everywhere. Thukydides, Dave_E, mtaylor and 2 others 4 1 Quote Eric Current builds: scratchbuilt Missouri River steamboat Peerless (1893); 1:1 scale timber-framed outdoor kitchen Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1853 Missouri River steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudybob Posted August 9, 2022 Share #68 Posted August 9, 2022 Laser cut means cut with a laser it doesn't mean accurate. I was fooled. :-) Paul Le Wol, Keith Black, Dave_E and 4 others 3 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_E Posted August 9, 2022 Author Share #69 Posted August 9, 2022 Thanks, I suspected those answers and I don’t know how these things happen. 🧐 Another shot straight down…the issue is symmetrical. mtaylor, Keith Black, yvesvidal and 1 other 3 1 Quote Dave Current builds: Rattlesnake Completed builds: Lady Nelson On the shelf: NRG Half Hull Project, Various metal, plastic and paper models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted August 10, 2022 Share #70 Posted August 10, 2022 Dave, is it possible to remove the filler blocks? Dave_E, mtaylor and Mr Whippy 3 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted August 10, 2022 Share #71 Posted August 10, 2022 47 minutes ago, rudybob said: Laser cut means cut with a laser it doesn't mean accurate. I was fooled. 🙂 The laser cuts are very accurate. They are a perfect clone of the file/drawing used to make the cut. There is a clue in there somewhere.😁 mtaylor, Dave_E, Keith Black and 2 others 5 Quote “Indecision may or may not be my problem.” ― Jimmy Buffett Current builds: Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_E Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share #72 Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) Boy, I do not have a good feeling about this. I measured from the false keel to the edge of each bulkhead, port and starboard sides, here’s what they measured. And since this is how they were laid out on the plans… that’s the way I installed them, letters all face forward. It looks like bulkhead (G) is the only bad one to remedy. Hopefully the rest are fixable with tapering. Will study for awhile. 🤓 Edited August 10, 2022 by Dave_E Keith Black, Mr Whippy and mtaylor 3 Quote Dave Current builds: Rattlesnake Completed builds: Lady Nelson On the shelf: NRG Half Hull Project, Various metal, plastic and paper models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_E Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share #73 Posted August 10, 2022 Just measured the bulkhead widths on the plan… bulkhead (H), (the wide one) measured 4” on the nose on paper. the laser cut part is 4 1/8”. How does that happen? 😳 Well I know now I have to reduce (H) and fix (G). Thanks everyone. 😁 mtaylor, Mr Whippy, AJohnson and 1 other 4 Quote Dave Current builds: Rattlesnake Completed builds: Lady Nelson On the shelf: NRG Half Hull Project, Various metal, plastic and paper models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted August 10, 2022 Share #74 Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) Dave, I added up your measurements for each bulkhead and the only way the totals make sense (to me at least) is for G and H to be swapped. Or am I completely off my rocker? What does G measure on the plans? Edited August 10, 2022 by Keith Black Mr Whippy, Dave_E, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathead Posted August 10, 2022 Share #75 Posted August 10, 2022 Bingo. Asymmetric bulkheads. The good news is that learning how to fill/reduce bulkheads to achieve a proper run of planking is a REALLY useful skill that you will need again. But it's rather annoying when it smacks you in the face like a wet fish. Have fun! mtaylor, Keith Black and Glen McGuire 3 Quote Eric Current builds: scratchbuilt Missouri River steamboat Peerless (1893); 1:1 scale timber-framed outdoor kitchen Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1853 Missouri River steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudybob Posted August 10, 2022 Share #76 Posted August 10, 2022 31 minutes ago, Gregory said: The laser cuts are very accurate. They are a perfect clone of the file/drawing used to make the cut. There is a clue in there somewhere.😁 The laser must be setup up properly and checked routinely. Everything gets out of whack. Ryland Craze, Keith Black, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted August 10, 2022 Share #77 Posted August 10, 2022 One way to fix this is to glue a thin strip on "short" bulkheads. Once you get them all close, than the faring can begin. I've seen this in the past on other build logs. Even had the issue on my first build so it's not uncommon. But mine was a "die cut" kit. Dave_E, Mr Whippy and Keith Black 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_E Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share #78 Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Keith Black said: Dave, I added up your measurements for each bulkhead and the only way the totals make sense (to me at least) is for G and H to be swapped. Or am I completely off my rocker? What does G measure on the plans? Nope, Keith, your rocker is OK. On paper G is 114mm wide and H is 110mm, going into I which is 98mm wide. That would be great. Except H is 115mm in real wood. Long afternoon seeing something wasn’t right and digging into it. Before I proceed any further, I’ll fix these 2 bulkheads and then do the stern counter block and finish the bow and stern fillers. Ryland Craze, mtaylor, Gregory and 3 others 6 Quote Dave Current builds: Rattlesnake Completed builds: Lady Nelson On the shelf: NRG Half Hull Project, Various metal, plastic and paper models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted August 10, 2022 Share #79 Posted August 10, 2022 Your bulkhead measurement of I = 90.5mm, the plan measurement is 98mm. That's a little more than a quarter of an inch difference. Does your earlier bulkhead measurements the full width of bulkhead edge to edge? Is the 7.5mm difference in the two I measurements because of the keel width? Mr Whippy and mtaylor 2 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_E Posted August 10, 2022 Author Share #80 Posted August 10, 2022 Didn’t measure keel thickness in my first side to side measurements. Unglued the blocks, removed bulkheads G and H, cutout templates and sanded them down to the line and all back together. My biggest mistake was assuming the laser cut parts matched the drawings, and again I am sorry I bashed the Amati kit as all the laser cut parts were drawing correct. I’m pretty sure fairing of the bulkheads will make everything ok. Lesson learned… do not assume any laser cut part is correct… ever! mtaylor, bruce d, rafine and 17 others 20 Quote Dave Current builds: Rattlesnake Completed builds: Lady Nelson On the shelf: NRG Half Hull Project, Various metal, plastic and paper models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLong Posted August 11, 2022 Share #81 Posted August 11, 2022 Dave, I had a similar issue with my Fair American build. I did all the tapering of bulkheads before gluing to the hull. During fairing, one or two bulkheads were short, or ''heavy'' as you have experienced, though not as dramatically. Laser cutting is only so good. I use the plans as law, and when possible, build to plan and not as-is. My fix was adding some 1/32 plank to thicken bulkhead areas that were low, then sanded back to fair the best I could. Wood filler also helped tremendously. You're doing a great job very early on with addressing the issues with the hull. Keep up the fine attention to detail and quality! I can't wait to see more of your progress -Jason- Keith Black, mtaylor, Knocklouder and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_E Posted August 11, 2022 Author Share #82 Posted August 11, 2022 Thanks Jason. I did shim 2 bulkheads and feel way better than I did about what I discovered. I am going to attempt a single hull plank… we’ll see. I’m sure following so many of our fellow craftsmen here and learning from each other’s woes is what keeps many a new modeler going during their nymph years in the hobby. 👍😀 mtaylor, Cathead, Keith Black and 3 others 6 Quote Dave Current builds: Rattlesnake Completed builds: Lady Nelson On the shelf: NRG Half Hull Project, Various metal, plastic and paper models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldsalt1950 Posted August 11, 2022 Share #83 Posted August 11, 2022 Dave, are you planning on painting the hull once you are done planking? Then by all means single plank. Whichever way you intend to plank, you will be spilling and may need a steeler or two. Dave_E, Keith Black, javajohn and 2 others 5 Quote Current Build: Fair American - Model Shipways Awaiting Parts - Rattlesnake On the Shelf - English Pinnace 18Th Century Longboat I stand firmly against piracy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javajohn Posted August 11, 2022 Share #84 Posted August 11, 2022 I feel your pain, Dave! I ran into these issues too. In my case, bulkhead D needed a lot of work to widen it, but all of them needed some sanding or shimming. Some of the bulkheads in my kit were asymmetrical. I used the plans (not the templates) to measure and got reasonably close. But this is a kit where the CAD measurements were sloppy and we the builders have to deal with it. I spent weeks fairing the bulkheads, trying to understand where I went wrong. Here you can see what I had to do. That shim is 1/16" of an inch at its widest point! mtaylor, Gregory, AJohnson and 4 others 5 2 Quote John Current Build: Rattlesnake (Model Shipways 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudybob Posted August 11, 2022 Share #85 Posted August 11, 2022 On 8/7/2022 at 7:08 PM, Dave_E said: Hi All, I think I can call the skeleton complete. I have to agree with the other comments about the bulkheads being flimsy (bass wood), so I did what others have done and stiffened them up making sure the keel was straight. I’m also glad I did not precut or shape any of the bulkheads for planking. You can really tell the difference just handling it. Some things really impress me. The cutting and fitting of the bulkhead supports is one such thing. If I was to try that it would take a looooong time and still not be accurate yvesvidal, mtaylor, Keith Black and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmagna Posted August 14, 2022 Share #86 Posted August 14, 2022 I had a similar thing happen on a kit I was building except it was only one bulkhead and it was too small. I was able to pin a batten along the hull and form it to all of the other bulkheads. Then I just relocated the too small bulkhead Toward the stern, (about 1/4 inch I think) until it also touched the battens and allowed a smooth hull shape when planked. no other cutting or alterations were required for that part of the hull. It came out perfectly when planked. mtaylor, Edwardkenway, Keith Black and 1 other 4 Quote Lou Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence Currant builds: Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold) Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral) 1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin) Currant research/scratchbuild: Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes Non ship build log: 1/35th UH-1H Huey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbysLunchBox Posted September 24, 2022 Share #87 Posted September 24, 2022 What’s happening? Been a long time since you have posted. Hope all is well. Mr Whippy, Keith Black, flutlo6180 and 1 other 4 Quote ~Kirby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_E Posted September 24, 2022 Author Share #88 Posted September 24, 2022 Hi Kirby, All is well… the Rattlesnake is sitting about where I left her… dabbled with a card model airplane and then came summer in the PNW. Our weather has about 3 weeks left before it turns grey and wet and windy towards November. I’ll be back in the shipyard for sure. Thanks for asking. How’s your ship coming along? rudybob, mtaylor, Glen McGuire and 6 others 9 Quote Dave Current builds: Rattlesnake Completed builds: Lady Nelson On the shelf: NRG Half Hull Project, Various metal, plastic and paper models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbysLunchBox Posted September 24, 2022 Share #89 Posted September 24, 2022 Totally understand that! Mine is still boxed up. Going to be for awhile too. I broke my ankle playing with my kids and I can’t get to my workbench safely until I can walk without crutches. Maybe when the snow starts flying. Just living through every ones build logs in the mean time! Mr Whippy, Knocklouder, Keith Black and 2 others 1 4 Quote ~Kirby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Ku20 Posted October 21, 2022 Share #90 Posted October 21, 2022 Hi Dave, Just came across this build log for your Rattlesnake. I'm glad to see you got it started. I just started mine earlier this month. I'm not too far behind you. I just finished gluing the bulkheads. I look forward to following your build. It's too bad you are having trouble with the bulkheads. Issues with the framing seem to be SOP with this kit. I've had my share too. Great job on the anchor stocks. I might have to "borrow" some of your ideas there. It's great to have other modelers who are working on the same things you are! Keep up the good work!! Dave_E, Mr Whippy, Knocklouder and 2 others 5 Quote Thanks & Best regards, Ed Kutay Current build: Model Shipways "Rattlesnake" Completed build: Model Shipways "Bluenose I" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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