Gluing - a curiosity question

[David W]

Building an Amati Fifie am experiencing a situation where the supplied wood, possibly walnut of some sort, that doesn't like to be glued. I'm putting several small brackets on the wheelhouse and tried using Starbond medium CA, they don't 'stick'. OK, I'll try my Titebond ll. Yep, they stick but instead of being able to handle this part in, say, 20-30 minutes, it comes loose. Once dry, things stick. Yes, the laser burn marks have been sanded off. When I planked that wheelhouse and experienced a bit of the same problem - but I just used more Titebond then normal. Got a quandary and just curios if this is a normal situation with some woods. Oh and that Starbond works everywhere else, as long as it's not the supplied darker woods

Leap ahead, I'm about to start planking the hull First layer is something like basswood and will be PVA glued. Amati says to CA the second. I really doubt that this is a great idea. Back to TiteBond but lll waterproof since the boat will be in the water

[Gregory]

For PVA or CA not to work suggests a problem with lack of porosity..    Sounds like the wood is sealed one way or another.

[Jim Lad]

Or perhaps there's a problem with some sort of grease or oil on the wood.  Try washing a couple of scrap pieces with soap (and rinse off) and then try gluing - it may be the sollution.

 

John

[Gregory]

5 minutes ago, Jim Lad said:

some sort of grease or oil on the wood

That would cause a problem with porosity..😁

Your suggestion might fix that...

Edited January 29, 2023 by Gregory

[Roger Pellett]

It might also be because of natural oils IN the wood.   For example, Teak has natural oils that can interfere with some glues.  I’m not suggesting that the kit manufacturer supplied Teak.  Rather it is probably some unfamiliar tropical hardwood and not real walnut.

 

Roger

[gsdpic]

Is the CA old?  CA glue does go bad after a time and won't hold, or at least will take longer to hold.  Might be wise to try a new bottle of CA and see if it works better.

[David W]

To cover the suggestions above and a thanks for them

- Lack of porosity - possibly due to type of tree or milling process

- Oily/greasy - feels dry plus everything has been sanded pretty well

- Not teak but could be a tropical dark wood instead of the expected walnut. My short history with tropical woods is slim but they are usually pretty porous

- The CA at this point is pretty recent, probably 6-8 months and unopened until last month. As far as shelf date, who knows.

 

I'll struggle through but it is perplexing

[No Idea]

Have you tried roughing up the surfaces?  This has worked for me before.

[Charles Green]

Roger Pellet mentioned oil in the wood; a common characteristic of tropical hardwoods.  Wiping the surface to be glued with acetone just before the glue is applied will solve that problem.

[Dsmith20639]

I'm currently building the Amati Fifie (static not RC) and am in the process of applying the second layer of planking using CA with no problems. If anything I would wish for a slightly slower set up time. Using medium thickness CA by Loctite.

o9c

[reklein]

You could try using a pin to put a bunch of tiny holes in the wood, try putting the pin  in a hemostat and ising it like a hammer to tap little holes in the wood. I've used this technique in the past to glue firewalls  for gas engines in R/C airplanes.

 

[HardeeHarHar]

On 1/29/2023 at 11:47 AM, Dsmith20639 said:

I'm currently building the Amati Fifie (static not RC) and am in the process of applying the second layer of planking using CA with no problems. If anything I would wish for a slightly slower set up time. Using medium thickness CA by Loctite.

o9c

I recently bought a bottle of the Loctite® Super Glue Extra Time Control.  I'd never seen it before.  I ordered it on-line from Amazon to check it out.  It is almost too slow, but so far, I like it for gluing things that need a little time to get in the intended configuration.  As a bonus, it has a "reduced risk of finger bonding"  😃

 

 

 

[GrandpaPhil]

I use max cure superglue from just about any hobby house.  My last couple batches were Bob Smith Industries off Amazon.  It works great for me.  It bonds metal to metal and metal to wood without a problem.  It takes a few minutes to set up, but once it dries, it doesn’t let loose.

Edited January 31, 2023 by GrandpaPhil

[mtaylor]

1 hour ago, GrandpaPhil said:

I use max cure superglue from just about any hobby house.  My last couple batches were Bob Smith Industries off Amazon.  It works great for me.  It bonds metal to metal and metal to wood without a problem.  It takes a few minutes to set up, but once it dries, it doesn’t let loose.

It should be noted that many hobby shops and other places are labeled with the store.   Bob Smith does this if they request it but somewhere on the label might be www.bsii-inc.com and/or "Manufactured by BSI".

[Alex-Ks1]

There is a product for removing oil , grease , silicone , and any waxs off any surface . I use it , It won't harm the wood or any surface , any auto paint store sells it ,, IT WORKS. Wipe on with one rag ,wipe off with another rag . Just my two cents

[Dsmith20639]

so what is it?

[goatfarmer11]

On 2/1/2023 at 5:45 PM, Alex-Ks1 said:

There is a product for removing oil , grease , silicone , and any waxs off any surface . I use it , It won't harm the wood or any surface , any auto paint store sells it ,, IT WORKS. Wipe on with one rag ,wipe off with another rag . Just my two cents

could this be it? 

[Jaager]

It is irritating and misleading that unscrupulous marketers name any tropical species that is a bit chocolate in color as Walnut.  Almost none of them are any Juglans sp.

 

Epoxy would probably do your bonding.  Given the fight that it is putting up, going belt and suspenders would be wise.  The dowel should hold tight while the epoxy cures.

[Gregory]

1 hour ago, goatfarmer11 said:

could this be it? 

 

Possibly relabeled  acetone, which would accomplish the same thing.

[David W]

Be aware that Kleen Strip products are pretty good products to use around the house.  If you want a professional level version find an auto body paint supplier or even a NAPA store. I haven't purchased any in a few years but the pro level cost was pretty inexpensive an a quart will probably last years (and why I haven't needed to buy more