FRECCIA CELESTE 1927 Bianchi 350 cc racing motorcycle by Ras Ambrioso - FINISHED - Protar - 1:9 scale

[Keith Black]

 Back in the day gas gauges were not all that common on motor vehicles. I had a 37 MGTA with no reserve tank and no gas gauge. The only way to tell how much gas was in the tank was with a stick. Back then people didn't think that was unusual. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Keith Black

[shipman]

Sorry guy's I don't agree.

There is no reason to have a reserve supply of fuel (2 pints at best in that tank).

As for the Protar diagram, I'd take that with a pinch of salt.

The small tank is for oil.

I'll do a bit more research and eat my slippers if I'm wrong.

[Egilman]

Just my opinion, in the images of the completed bike that were posted above, it has to be an oil tank.... The reason I say this is it is the only way it makes sense and the line from the tank goes to the rocker assembly.... Since the oiling system on all these early bikes was gravity flow or hand pump fed, this has to be an early form of oiler.... The large tank feeds the crankcase, the small tank feeds the head...

 

On the opposite side rising from the crankcase to the head is the drive tube for the camshaft, I see no other provision for getting oil to the camshaft journals...

 

Harley used a similar system on some of it's very early bikes....

[realworkingsailor]

I think Shipman is right, according to this website, it was an oil tank.

Found a prototype photo too:

 

Andy

Edited March 29, 2023 by realworkingsailor
Found photo

[Egilman]

25 minutes ago, realworkingsailor said:

according to this website, it was an oil tank.

Yep, and it fed the gear train driving the twin camshafts on the opposite side of the camshafts driveshaft to slow down the oil loss....

 

Excellent find brother...

[Montaigne]

The only pair of slippers I own are made of rubber and intended for visits to the swimming hall. I vehemently refuse to eat them.

[Keith Black]

 Ras, dang those instructions! Now I'm gonna have to eat Shipman's slippers. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Keith Black

[shipman]

See this, though not exactly the same machine, the practice is clear.

 

https://www.fondazionepirelli.org/archivio-storico/fotografie/detail/IT-PIRELLI-FT0001-0000000482/il-pilota-miro-maffeis-nel-1925.html?jsonVal={"jsonVal":{"query":"Miro Maffeis","startDate":"","endDate":"","fieldDate":"dataNormal","_perPage":20}}&attachmentMisc=undefined&lang=en#n

[shipman]

Last year I was invited to see a wealthy man's extensive collection of classic GP motorcycles, the highlight for me was his brace of MV Agusta 500 triples, a favourite of mine.

He asked me to guess what the small oil tank hidden under the seat was. Graciously I said ''you tell me''.

He told me that was a reserve oil tank feeding the engine.

As the reservoir was so small (the machine has a VAST heavily finned wet sump), I said that was improbable.

Well, he said, the great Giacomo Agostini (a personal friend of his) the man these machines were primarily designed for, had told him that.

Mmmm, I came home and consulted my extensive digital period photo files; the tank is in fact an oil reservoir for dripping oil onto the drive chain.

The moral of that story is, don't believe anything anyone tells you (no matter if it's someone with Agostini's cudos), before you find out yourself.

This forum constantly urges the importance of primary source information. This was a fine example.

 

I believe the correct term for the Bianchi is Freccia Celeste.

Edited March 29, 2023 by shipman
additional paragraph

[Ras Ambrioso]

Holy cow, it seems that I woke up the bees. Very interesting arguments. At the beginning of this thread I said that I thought it was oil to the OHCS and I tend to stick to it and I will ignore the instructions (Oh my!) agreeing with Shipman and Egilman. However the drop oil feed to the chain is coming from the crankcase from a pipe and valve on the left side of the bike. The fact is that, if you look closely at the right side sketch, the oil system is kind of weird.

I appreciate you comments and value your opinions and, for that , I thank you all. 

[mtaylor]

14 hours ago, shipman said:

Oh, Mark, how many two stroke engines had such obvious double overhead camshafts?

That's true.  I didn't think deeply enough to realize that.

[Ras Ambrioso]

And, by the way, I knew the bike's name was Freccia, with two c's which means Arrow. But when I submitted the post it was edited by the coordinators (??)

[shipman]

Damn, I really need a new pair of slippers.

My dog won't pick them up LOL

[mtaylor]

1 hour ago, Ras Ambrioso said:

And, by the way, I knew the bike's name was Freccia, with two c's which means Arrow. But when I submitted the post it was edited by the coordinators (??)

I re-edited the title.  Should be correct now.

[Ras Ambrioso]

Thanks Mark for the revision. Ciao

[Keith Black]

2 hours ago, shipman said:

I really need a new pair of slippers.

My dog won't pick them up

 *Keith chokes back gag reflex, considers all options including joining the French Foreign Legion to escape dining on Slipper Souffle

[Old Collingwood]

11 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 Ras, dang those instructions! Now I'm gonna have to eat Shipman's slippers. 

Can we have photos.....

 

OC.

[Keith Black]

[Ras Ambrioso]

 I love this🤩🤩

 

Photos are coming

[Ras Ambrioso]

Guys , I need you help again. The seat for this bike is a rubber like material and it has the surface molded to imitate leather. Looking at Kim's (refer to Post #44) I figured that a brown leather color really looked good and proceeded to spray the seat with brown (rattle can) paint. Horror 🤯 (again). Its been three days since the spray and the paint has not dried yet. My thought now is to use paint thinner and try to remove the leather color and live with the original black color. Do you have any ideas about the use of paint over rubber?  

[Keith Black]

  I've never had great success painting rubber except those times where I've accidentally got paint on rubber and of course it refuses to come off. Ras, in your case I'd keep after it with the paint thinner. There are some eco friendly paint removers that are also gentle on your hands. I think they're all about the same. See the below link on painting rubber. 

 

https://resin-expert.com/en/guide/how-to-paint-rubber

[Egilman]

Wow, Rubber is not something I've ever removed paint from... I wouldn't use any volatile paint thinner, too afraid of melting the rubber....

 

There are some non-caustic paint removers and some cleaners that do well at removing paint without damaging the underlying material...

 

Do you have any sprues made from the same material? If you do I would suggest superclean, straight out of the bottle it does a great job of removing paint... what I would do is drop a scrap piece of the rubber into it and see what it does first....

 

My Admiral suggested hot boiling water, (old household remedy) causes the rubber to expand which usually breaks the surface tension connecting the paint & rubber... Then use a soft brush to lift the edges of the paint and peel what will come off easy and re-soak if any remains...

 

Interesting problem....

Edited March 31, 2023 by Egilman

[CDW]

1 hour ago, Ras Ambrioso said:

Guys , I need you help again. The seat for this bike is a rubber like material and it has the surface molded to imitate leather. Looking at Kim's (refer to Post #44) I figured that a brown leather color really looked good and proceeded to spray the seat with brown (rattle can) paint. Horror 🤯 (again). Its been three days since the spray and the paint has not dried yet. My thought now is to use paint thinner and try to remove the leather color and live with the original black color. Do you have any ideas about the use of paint over rubber?  

I would not use paint thinner to strip the paint off. You will likely end up with a destroyed part. The paint you've used likely has reacted in a bad way with the material the seat is made from, and that's why it's not drying. I would get ahold of this product from Walmart and use it to strip off the paint:

Super Clean Tough Task Cleaner-Degreaser 1 Gallon - Walmart.com

First, test a scrap piece of the material, perhaps using sprue the part was attached to, to make sure the Superclean doesn't harm the material. I don't believe it will. I have successfully used acrylic paint on pieces like you are trying to paint. I regularly use Superclean to strip paint from plastic models and it does not harm the plastic at all. Paint thinner will melt the plastic, and your parts are likely a type of vinyl, not actual rubber, but either way I believe Superclean is the way to go.

 

[Egilman]

29 minutes ago, CDW said:

Superclean is the way to go.

Amen brother...

[realworkingsailor]

As an alternative to rubber, have you considered using something else?

 

Have a look through Michael Mott’s pilot cutter build. He made some nice scale seating using pigskin:

 

Even some kind of appropriate coloured simulated leather might work, stretched over a wooden mould of your motorcycle seat.

 

Andy

Edited April 1, 2023 by realworkingsailor

[CDW]

If I was going to use leather, this is the way I would go:

 

Leather Upholstery for Model Interiors 101 (italianhorses.net)

[Ras Ambrioso]

Guys, thanks to all for the suggestions. I should have checked the effect of the paint on the rubber. First I will try superclean as the Admiral had a supply. Then I may go for the leather but for that I still have to find a glue that wont react to the rubber. Thanks again

 

[CDW]

15 minutes ago, Ras Ambrioso said:

Guys, thanks to all for the suggestions. I should have checked the effect of the paint on the rubber. First I will try superclean as the Admiral had a supply. Then I may go for the leather but for that I still have to find a glue that wont react to the rubber. Thanks again

 

Sounds like a plan.

On another note, what are you thinking about how to reproduce the spokes?

[Ras Ambrioso]

The spokes are the real challenge, they have to be fabricated. I did these on the the first kit back in the 90's. Took me a long time and I lost interest in the model. This time, I have left the wheels for last and I am determined to finish this project.

Following are the instructions for the fabrication of the wheels.

On the good side is that previous kit owner had already fabricated the 80 spokes and hopefully he did a fair job on them.  I am still trying to understand the sequence of assembly using the sticky templates.  I have looked at many spoke wheel fabrications on Pinterest but most of them had different rims and also used monofilament line for the spokes.

Its going to be fun🤔🤔

 

For the saga of the leather seat I want to show you how good the paint looks in the rubber seat. Unfortunately is very sticky.

Thanks for watching.

[CDW]

Oh wow...I did not know the kit supplied the instructions and materials (and jig?) for creating the spokes. Very nice but tedious for sure.

If you don't mind me saying so, I would consider using your molded seat to create a silicon replica mold and then cast the seat from resin. Cover the resin seat with leather. It will be difficult to cover that seat because its probably too flexible. Resin opens up the possibility to use a contact cement which will not harm the resin but adhere leather to it.