Flying Dutchman/Black Pearl by Glen McGuire - 1/700 - BOTTLE

[Keith Black]

10 minutes ago, John Fox III said:

What about using some sort of funnel inserted in the bottle, held in place while the clear water substitute is added. One could possibly then use something to create swirls and waves to the entire water surface?

 I thought about the approach myself. The problem is the funnel, it would have to fold where it could be inserted into the bottle, then unfold once in position, held in place by magic, gel poured in and the freed from the gel and removed. Too many steps to success in a very tight space plus I couldn't find nary a folding funnel.

[Ian_Grant]

16 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 I thought about the approach myself. The problem is the funnel, it would have to fold where it could be inserted into the bottle, then unfold once in position, held in place by magic, gel poured in and the freed from the gel and removed. Too many steps to success in a very tight space plus I couldn't find nary a folding funnel.

What about one of those straws with a corrugated section bent to 90 deg in the bottle, and a funnel attached at the outboard end?

 

Glen, I would like to propose an engineer's approach. Since you can't make the epoxy spin after you pour, you need to spin the bottle instead. Some sort of cradle to hold it horizontal, with a DC gear motor to do the spinning with the spin axis passing through where you want the centre of the whirlpool, speed controlled by adjusting the motor voltage. There, simple!  You're welcome. 😉

 

 

[Keith Black]

 Ian, you got my attention when you said "spin the bottle" but lost me shortly there after. 

[Glen McGuire]

1 hour ago, John Fox III said:

What about using some sort of funnel inserted in the bottle, held in place while the clear water substitute is added. One could possibly then use something to create swirls and waves to the entire water surface?

 

45 minutes ago, Javelin said:

I've actually been thinking the same, make a cone out of several pieces to insert in the bottle, but make sure you can disassemble it.

The funnel is an interesting idea.  Getting the funnel out, as Roel said, would be the hard part.  I'll do some experimenting on that.

 

[Landlubber Mike]

Quite a puzzle to figure out how to do the whirlpool.  I agree that clay inside the bottle is probably the easiest way, but also agree that resin tends to look a lot better.  I was originally going to say maybe try to create the form of the whirlpool using clay then cover it with resin or a similar looking material, but then from the sides of the bottle where the clay was pressed against the glass it will still look like clay.

 

There are other products out there with a thicker consistency than resin which would avoid the issue of pouring resin and it pooling and leveling itself out.  Below is what I used in my Hannah SIB build (sorry for the picture size).  You can build it into textures, and it looks "wet" when it dries.  The downside is that it was a bit of a pain to scoop amounts out and then put it in the bottle without getting the product on the sides of the bottle.  It also seemed to take a while to dry in the bottle.  I tried using a fan to get air circulated into the bottle but it's hard to push air through a hole the size of a quarter without an exit hole.  I got a little impatient so tried heating the bottle in the oven at low temperature, but even at like 225, it started to pop and I had to clean off the residue on the sides of the bottle.  So maybe less heat would be better, or just let it dry on its own.  There are similar products out there from other manufacturers in the model diorama world.

 

 

 

[Glen McGuire]

26 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

Glen, I would like to propose an engineer's approach. Since you can't make the epoxy spin after you pour, you need to spin the bottle instead. Some sort of cradle to hold it horizontal, with a DC gear motor to do the spinning with the spin axis passing through where you want the centre of the whirlpool, speed controlled by adjusting the motor voltage. There, simple!  You're welcome. 😉

Are you trying to get blocked from this build log too, Ian??  😃     

 

Now remember, I am not an engineer.  So I don't have a box full of DC motors and rheostats lying around in my garage like I'm sure you do!  I also think we have different definitions of the word "simple", but I do appreciate your creativity!  

[Glen McGuire]

8 minutes ago, Landlubber Mike said:

There are other products out there with a thicker consistency than resin which would avoid the issue of pouring resin and it pooling and leveling itself out.  Below is what I used in my Hannah SIB build

Thanks, Mike.  I think the Vallejo product you used is similar to the Woodland Scenics Water Waves that I've used.  The idea has some promise, but scooping so much into the bottle cleanly will be a challenge. 

[Javelin]

17 minutes ago, Glen McGuire said:

 

The funnel is an interesting idea.  Getting the funnel out, as Roel said, would be the hard part.  I'll do some experimenting on that.

 

The reason I'd go for a solid cone of multiple pieces, is that anything hollow, like a funnel shape, might be difficult to keep "water"tight. If there's any leakage, it will start to fill up or get the funnel stuck in the resin. 

 

I guess the first question we have to ask is: what kind of diameter (and height) whirlpool are you looking at? A lot bigger than the bottle neck? 

[Glen McGuire]

2 minutes ago, Javelin said:

I guess the first question we have to ask is: what kind of diameter (and height) whirlpool are you looking at? A lot bigger than the bottle neck? 

Yes, much bigger.  The diameter will be about 2 1/4" at the top edge of the whirlpool where the ships face each other (red line below).  Depth will be around 3/4", maybe a bit more.  Hence the problem with getting a funnel that large, or even pieces of a funnel that large, out of a bottle neck that is 3/4" wide.   That's why I think I will have to construct the whirlpool inside the bottle, but I'm going to experiment with the funnel idea.

 

[tmj]

"If only you could come up with a way to pull this off in a bottle!" Maybe after 'polishing-off' a bottle some unique ideas will hit you... hopefully before you hit the floor!  !!! 

I'm thinking... model a silicon mold/plug outside of the bottle then stuff it in, prop it up somehow then 'Carefully' inject the epoxy resin into the bottle and around that plug. Once the resin sets, remove the flexible silicon plug/whirlpool form...??? Maybe that silicone whirlpool plug could be suspended from the top of the bottle using temporary clay and toothpicks, etc. until the epoxy cures. That wouldn't violate any SIB rules, would it?  

 

 

 

Edited October 15 by tmj

[Old Collingwood]

What an Excellent  video,   wonder  if  something like  that could be made  (minus the  ships)  then  pushed through the neck, if it was less  mass  or deep,  with the  ships  made and  pushed  through and  placed  after.

 

OC.

[Keith Black]

 Thanks for that posting, Tom. That vid just knocks my socks off!

[Glen McGuire]

1 hour ago, tmj said:

"If only you could come up with a way to pull this off in a bottle!"

When I first started research on this project, I googled "how to make a whirlpool with epoxy resin" and that video showed up at the top of the list.  I perused the entire Minibricks website and was left in awe.  They take epoxy resin art to a level that I've never seen before nor thought was possible.  That particular video is what I'd like mine to look like (in my dreams, anyway), but doing it inside a bottle makes it a whole 'nother thing!  

[tmj]

22 minutes ago, Glen McGuire said:

but doing it inside a bottle makes it a whole 'nother thing!

Don't make a vase like whirlpool as seen in the video. Just make an inner plug and fill it with bird-shot, or sand so it will hold its shape while being surrounded by wet epoxy resin. When all is said and done, dump out the BB's or sand, pull the mold out and "Viola!" I've seen enough of your work and talent to know for fact that you could indeed pull this off! ☺️ 

Edited October 15 by tmj

[Ian_Grant]

1 hour ago, tmj said:

Don't make a vase like whirlpool as seen in the video. Just make an inner plug and fill it with bird-shot, or sand so it will hold its shape while being surrounded by wet epoxy resin. When all is said and done, dump out the BB's or sand, pull the mold out and "Viola!" I've seen enough of your work and talent to know for fact that you could indeed pull this off! ☺️ 

That's how to do it!!!

[PvG Aussie]

On 10/15/2024 at 4:04 PM, Javelin said:

Been pondering about ways to make that whirlpool

Hi Glen and Roel,

For my last SIB I used 'air dry clay' and found it to be very easy. The texture is good to shape and is easily stained and painted. You just have to remember to let it dry for a few days before adding the cork, otherwise you will get some condensation inside the pottle. See my Endeavour SIB build below.

Cheers, 

Edited October 16 by PvG Aussie

[John Fox III]

Greetings,

One doesn't have to use a funnel, a simple wooden plug in that shape would do. And that could be made to disassemble after the resin dries, with parts small enough to remove through the bottle neck.

Anchor's A Weigh!

John Fox III

[Glen McGuire]

Thank you to everyone for the lively discussion and the creative solutions for solving the whirlpool problem.  You have given me a number of good ideas to try out.  In the mean time it's back to work on the Flying Dutchman.

 

Next up is the ship's armament.  I built the ship with ports for 7 cannons on the gun deck and 6 cannonades on the spar deck.  In the movie, there's a few close-up shots of the cannons emerging from the gun deck ports.  In some shots, there are triple-barreled cannons. 

 

 

 

I thought those looked very cool so decided to make all my gun deck cannons with triple barrels.  For my cannon barrels, I use 22 gauge (.67mm diameter) veterinary needles.  They are hollow, so if anyone looks close enough they they look more like a cannon barrel than a solid rod which is what I used to use.  I cut the needles into pieces 4mm long, then CA glued them into a mini pyramid 3 at a time.   

 

 

For the spar deck cannonades, I made carriages out of .75mm thick basswood, grooved a small cradle into the top surface, and CA glued the barrels in place.  Crude, but it works at this scale.

 

 

 

Here she is with the triple-barreled cannons glued in place and the cannonades dry-fit.

 

Next up - the masts.  I'm doing 3-piece masts for the fore and main with a 2-piece for the mizzen.  For these, I take a bamboo rod, cut it up, thin it, and taper the tip.  As usual, I use a version of John Fox III's hidden hinge method at the base.

 

 

 

Here's the ship in its current state with the masts and bowsprit dry-fit.

 

 

 

The junction on the mizzen between the main mast and top mast is too high, but necessary for the crow's nest to clear the stern when it is laid down.

 

 

   

 

 

Edited October 16 by Glen McGuire

[tmj]

That is amazing! Very nice work!

[Ian_Grant]

On 10/15/2024 at 6:05 PM, Glen McGuire said:

When I first started research on this project, I googled "how to make a whirlpool with epoxy resin" and that video showed up at the top of the list.  I perused the entire Minibricks website and was left in awe.  They take epoxy resin art to a level that I've never seen before nor thought was possible.  That particular video is what I'd like mine to look like (in my dreams, anyway), but doing it inside a bottle makes it a whole 'nother thing!  

Glen, I had an inspiration to make it much easier to implement in a bottle. The trick lies in your choice of bottle; something like this:

 

It's a one-gallon wine fermentation bottle. Plenty of room, and a bigger mouth.

[Glen McGuire]

26 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

The trick lies in your choice of bottle;

Indeed, Ian.  That's been my problem all along!  I'm the guy in the 3rd Indiana Jones movie that picked the wrong Holy Grail to drink from.

Edited October 17 by Glen McGuire

[mtaylor]

Hmmm.... distinct advantages to using a 1 gallon wine bottle.  Mostly the wine probably in addition to more room inside for the models and also the larger mouth.  The only question is "white" or "red" for the liquid contents. So the "choose wisely" meme works for this.

[Baker]

Very nice work.

I would go for the 1 gallon bottle.
preferably red 

[Old Collingwood]

Could  get the I gallon  Red bottle  and  if you do not want to drink the  wine  first   -  leave  it in  and  build  the scene  in a  "Wine World"    yes  that was   wine world   not  "Waynes  World"

 

OC.

[mtaylor]

21 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

Could  get the I gallon  Red bottle  and  if you do not want to drink the  wine  first   -  leave  it in  and  build  the scene  in a  "Wine World"    yes  that was   wine world   not  "Waynes  World"

 

OC.

Hmm.. red wine.  Call it the "Red Sea".

[FriedClams]

Late to the party, but all caught up.  Another ambitious project, Glen - best of luck.  I'm confident you'll pull this off and it will turn out crazy cool.

 

Gary

[Glen McGuire]

8 hours ago, FriedClams said:

Another ambitious project, Glen - best of luck.  I'm confident you'll pull this off and it will turn out crazy cool.

"Ambitious" is a nice word, Gary.  Thanks!  But ludicrous may be a better description of this one!  We shall see.  I appreciate your confidence in me. 

[Glen McGuire]

Next up - making and affixing the channels.  The channels were made from 1mm thick basswood.  I drilled .35mm holes spaced 1.5mm apart.  

 

 

 

The next step was making the crow's nests - much more time-consuming that regular mast tops.  They are carved out of 2mm think basswood, then rounded and tapered.

 

 

 

I got the crow's nests made and installed, followed by the upper shrouds.  Then it was time for @Knocklouder's favorite pastime (aside from killing varmints in his workshop), adding ratlines.  As with my other builds, I used fly tying thread (136D  6/0W).  I cut a bunch of short pieces, dabbed them with fabric glue, then inserted them with a small weave where they sit on top of the outside shrouds and underneath the middle one.  After the glue dried, I clipped the ends with cuticle trimmers.

 

 

 

 

Next, I made all the yards and added a thread in the center to attach them to the masts with a clove hitch.

 

 

 

 

And here's where she is at now with the masts dry-fit into the deck.  You will notice that I removed the poop deck rails at the stern.  This was necessary to get the mizzen and main masts through the bottle's opening.   I may try to reinstall them after the ship is in the bottle.  Also, you may notice that I carved a half-moon shape out of the leading edge of the poop deck.  I put the main mast crow's nest bit too high on the mast.  It was supposed to lie short of the poop deck when the mast was folded over but was hitting it and preventing the mast from lying down as far as I needed it to.  I may carve it out further and just make a quarter deck out of it. 

  

 

 

Not too much left here - sails, lower shrouds, and a bit more rigging.  Oh, and one other small thing, the ship will NOT fit inside the bottle with the foremast lying down to the rear.  Not even close.  I simply made this ship too tall for the bottle opening.  So I've got to engineer a solution for that.  Of course I'm not talking about a real engineering solution like @Ian_Grant would come up with.  I'm talking about something simple-minded.  It will fit if I fold the fore mast forward.  That will create some difficulties with the rigging, but I think I can make that work.  I think I can...I think I can...I think I can...    

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22 by Glen McGuire

[JacquesCousteau]

Very cool! Looking forward to seeing how you get this one in the bottle.

[tmj]

"Looking good, Glen!"