HMS Victory by gil middleton - FINISHED - Caldercraft - 1:72

[mtaylor]

Gil,

 

Excellent work on the serving.  How do like that particular serving machine?  I'm tempted to get that one.

[Kevin]

Thank you gil i continue to follow your amazing work

[DBorgens]

Gill,

Thanks for the tutorial, defintely on my long term to do list. I like the simplicity of your method and wonderful results it gives. Your lines are impressive and the photos do not do justice. Keep writing and we'll keep learning.

 

Dave B

[gil middleton]

Thank you John and Mark.  As scratch builders, you have talents I can't begin to match and working in our den, a Byrnes saw, lathe, drill press or rotory sander just won't fly.  Fortunately, we all have fun and contribute in our own way.

Mark, the serving tool is simple and does everything I want it to do.  Since I'm not into rope walks with so many lines available (previous models and fabric stores), simple is good.

Kevin, I can't believe the progress you've made on the "Bismarck."  It's interesting following your thoughts on plastic vs. wood.

Mort, Lawrence and Dave, it's kind of you to visit and Happy holidays to each of you.   Cheers, Gil

Edited December 1, 2013 by gil middleton

[gil middleton]

A bit more on the clue, sheet and tack blocks. The photos I have of the Victory show the blocks held together with shackles (which hadn't been invented in 1805.  McKay's drawings show a monkey fist and loop arrangement.  I've simply prepared the blocks and lashed them together.  I suspect McKay's illustration is more accurate.  Fashioning the clue block.  All line including the strop and eyes are served.  Brass rod used to maintain the eye.

 

 

One eye completed.

 

 

Forming the second eye.

 

 

Sheet block

 

 

 

 

 

[WackoWolf]

WOW.

 

    They say a picture is worth a thousdan words, but your are worth a millions. Thank you for taking the time to show how you done this. It is always a pleasure to see your work. Please keep the pictures coming.

[md1400cs]

Gil,

 

YES thanks for all of the above. So nice of you to share in great detail. I'm sure many of us have learned "a bunch" just from just your last two posts.

 

Regards,

 

Michael

[Jerry]

Hello Gil,

I know I've thanked you before for the tremendous help you have been but I'd like to do it again.  I hope to be ready in a couple of months to begin rigging and I'm so grateful to have your log to refer to.  You are so good to do what you are..Thanks so much and God bless.

 

Jerry

[gil middleton]

Many thanks Joe, Michael and Jerry. It's only one way to do it.  There are others as good or better, but I guess it's my choice.

 

Cheers, Gil

[gil middleton]

David,  As I said, I couldn't respond to your private message because it put me in Internet Explorer 11 and I was unable to up-load photos.  Firefox lets me up-load.

Attaching the lines from the bow sprit is difficult to see on my photos of the real ship, but their location is clear.  Photos from my log shows them rather clearly due to a better camera angle.

 

Two photos from the real ship.  Eyebolts with blocks are seen attached to the lower rail just above the round house.

 

 

Four photos of the model show the eyebolts with blocks, forming a part of the tackle.

 

 

I hope this answers the question.  Cheers, Gil

[Shipyard sid]

Hello Gil

The Information on page 12 explained what I needed to to know about the rigging on the bowsprit, and was very clear. Any problems builders may come across working in this area will soon be cleared up by this series of photos, I am sure. Wonderful. Thanks a lot. DAVID

[gil middleton]

Hi Lawrence,  I'm not sure I understand the question.  Are you talking about where the deadeyes are lashed together?  Gil

[gil middleton]

Lawrence,  There is no joint around the mast.  Problem solved.  Each pair of shrouds is one line.  The line is served where it passes around the mast  to below the top (or  one can leave the lines without serving).  At each end of the serving, long tails are left to act as shrouds. Where the shrouds pass around the mast, they are seized together with 8 to 10 turns of finer thread and then both tails become shrouds. Usually both tails (shrouds) pass down one side, eg. starboard.  The next pair of shrouds to port, then the next to starboard, etc.  When the deadeyes are in place and tensioned, one can go back and forth between Port and Starboard to insure that the masts remain midline when viewed fore and aft.  Here is where the Lazy Susan proves so useful. Hope that clears up the confusion.  Cheers, Gil

[rlb]

Hi Gil,

 

Outstanding work.

 

Thanks for your log and all the details on how you've done things.  It's so helpful.

 

The lower right photo in post #297 could easily be a photo of the real ship. (I thought is was, at first glance!)

 

Ron

[Modelman]

Well Gil, it's a small world after all. A few hours after you left Helsinki Finland you probably passed my hometown. Sorry for repeating myself, but thanks for the great pictures!

Edited December 5, 2013 by Modelman

[gil middleton]

Lawrence,  I'm glad it helped.

Modelman, Will not likely get to Finland again but we'll be in touch through MSW.

Ron, Thanks, but your brig "Oneida" is a gem. What a great transition from kit to scratch building. The decking and planking is exquisite and I am so glad I can paint over my mistakes. If I live long enough, perhaps I'll handle wood like you do.

 

Continuing on with the main course clew garnet (clew line), clew block, tack and sheet.  The main sheet brackets and ring supporting the aft sheet block.

 

 

A side view for orientation, showing the fore yard tack going forward to the boomkin and the fore yard sheet going aft. Also showing the main yard tack.

 

 

The fore yard sheet running down to the right.  The main yard tack, down to the left.

 

 

The main yard sheet, originating from an eyebolt in the hull, passing through the sheet block, returning to the aft sheet block, supported by a lanyard through the bracket and ring.

 

 

One could argue that the sheet interferes with the gun port lid, however, when clearing for action, the courses (lower sails) were generally furled to avoid the firey wad being blown back into the sail causing the sail to catch fire.  Have we all read the Patrick O'Brien series?   Cheers, Gil

 

[WackoWolf]

Beautiful works as always Gil. Keep the post and pictures coming, your our teacher for this ship.

[popeye the sailor]

good to see you back to rigging the Vic Gil........beautiful work!   I notice the rigging for the bow's  'whisker boom'...I have added it into my Gothenborg build....still not quite sure where it originates and terminates.  I will have to look back in your log to see.....it is similar between the two.  though they are different scales.....if it's added in,  it should be done right     thanks for all the rigging techniques I've come away with

[vindicari]

Hi I am using your build log to clarify the build plans supplied your pics are invaluable, one question however, I am using the victory paint set supplied but your yellow seems much lighter than the yellow ochre supplied, is it the lighting, or are you using a different paint?

[gil middleton]

Grant, You've raised interesting conundrums we've all faced and I suspect there is no definitive answer. On the Cutty Sark and the Constitution, I did all the mast and yard work including blocks, foot ropes, etc. off the ship. They were added when ready to begin shrouds and stays. The advantage was that both ships were mounted on their support pedestals so that work on the masts off the ship, placed less stress on the supports.  The Victory however, is in a very firm cradle support.  Still the masts were completed off site and added when complete.  The yards were completed off site simply because it is far easier to work on them at a desk than when mounted.  Trying to strop a block, adjust a foot rope, or add battens to a yard over head is too much for this old fellow.  It seems more satisfying placing the masts first, then adding yards as it would be done during building or a refit.

As to the order, I tend to start with main and fore yards going up and aft, holding off on sheets, tacks and braces until other lines have run their course to the belaying pins and bitts. Still, my fingers and instruments seem always to be a bit too short. Is this like Gulliver building a doll house for a Lilliputian child?  Sorry Grant, not much help here.

 

Popeye, you talk about the Whisker Boom or Boomkin. On the Victory, the inboard end is fixed to the knighthead, supported at the rail and of course ends with a block for the main course tack line. Looking back in your log (great fun by the way) there is no knighthead on the Gothenborg and I am at a loss at to the inboard attachment.  No help here as well.

 

Joe, it's always fun to know you're out there keeping us honest.

 

Vindicari,  I appreciate your comments.  I did not use the excellent paint sets available, since working in my den, I chose to use only water based paints.  However, by mixing colors and testing results, I came up with a fair substitute.  If you go to page 2 of my log, the first several photos show the result under natural lighting, the use of incandescent lights which change "Yellow Ochre" to lemon yellow and of course flash which changes all the colors.  Another reference shows the same observation. The JoTika Victory build site shows rather bright yellow in photos but also shows  the model in natural light.  Go to  jotika-ltd.com/pages/1024768/Victory. On page 9 of the build site, click on the first photo and it should show the Yellow Ochre without Halogen lighting.

Cheers, Gil 

[gerty]

Beautiful work !

[popeye the sailor]

I know Gill......two different ships.....but the basic is the same principle.  you've done some awesome rigging there......

[Sjors]

Hi Gil,

 

Your rigging looks fabulous !

And then every time a little tutorial   

Thanks !

The rope you are using, is that from the kit ?

 

[gil middleton]

Thanks Lawrence and Popeye.  And Gerty, as I mentioned on your log, I think your Chesapeake Skipjack may be my next project. When we were on our boat in the Chesapeake, the one we saw was like living history. Sort of like seeing the C.W. Morgan being restored at Mystic Seaport. I spent the whole day crawling about the ship and now want to build the model. As I've said before, I think we were born about one to two hundred years too late.

 

Sjors, the "tutorials" are pretty simple and perhaps only one of several ways to do it  However, it may help someone starting out.  I've used the threads from the JoTika kit which I think are very good, along with a healthy dose of  extra Mantua line from a previous build and a number of trips to JoAnns fabrics, a local fabric and sewing store.   Fine lines for serving and those used for seizing splices etc. were added from the fabric store.  My only regret is that I didn't soak the lines in tea or dilute stain before rigging since the "natural" line supplied appears almost white in most lighting, much lighter than sun bleached Manila hemp.  Of course, if someone isn't as old as I am, one might never have worked with Manila line and wouldn't notice the difference.  When we reach about 90, we should have all the answers if we can just remember them.

Cheers, Gil 

[Klaas]

Hello Gil.

I must say, i have GREAT respect for your skills.

Thanks for the tutorials in each chapter.

 

I hope you won't be angry at me, but i have one remark.

 

I noticed in post 49 the last picture of the rudder.

The hinges are painted black,

History says they must have a copper couler (on the coppered part of the hull.)

 

I followed a discussion in England and they say

"

On a point of historical accuracy the Pintles and Gudgeons should really be painted a coppery bronze colour to represent the cuprous alloy used in their manufacture. This was to prevent re-action with the copper plating that use of iron would have caused

 

The book  "The arming and fitting of English Ships of War 1600 - 1815"
page 64 says:

The gudeons, or braces, and pintles of the rudder had long presented a problem due to theire deterioration.
By 1768 it was appreciated that they have to be made of a cuprous alloy, so this was done.
It was beyond the capabilities of the yards to make them, and exact models of the braces and pintles of each ship had to be sent to the contractor William Forbes of Deptford.

 

Ï surely hope you don't mind my remark.

 

I learned al lot on this amazing build, and i will keep following this.

 

Regards Klaas

Edited December 11, 2013 by Klaas

[Sjors]

Thanks Gil,

 

You are not that old ......

Just a young lad with a lot of skills and joy to make a tremendous build !

I'm learning from you and I'm happy with that.

The rope I've got from OcCre is not as good as the rope that I get from Caldercraft for the Agamemnon.

The light rope what I've got and using is from Gutherman.

Also for the serving

Great rope to work with.

By the time I'm 90 ...maybe I can do it also your way       

 

[gil middleton]

Klaas,  Many thanks for the reference, one that I do not have. However, it makes sense since it was about the same time that it was realized that iron nails deteriorated in copper sheathing.  None of my limited references make note of the metallurgy  of the pintles and gudgeons.  Thanks again for the resource.

 

Cheers, Gil 

[Jerry]

Good afternoon Gil...

 

I noticed the correspondence that you have been having regarding the color of the hinges and rudder straps.  I completed mounting the rudder just a couple of days ago so the instructions are still fresh in my mind.  In the Hull construction manual, page 43, line 3 and 8, the instructions say to paint the hinges and straps or gudeons and pintles, if you prefer, copper.  I don't mean to seem like I know it all for I'm a far cry from good in this ship model building business but as I said, this bit of babble was still floating in my mind.  I hope you are having a wonderful day in your area.  It's 83 and sunny here.

Best,

Jerry

Edited December 11, 2013 by Jerry

[gil middleton]

Sjors, Thanks.  Gutermann is also my favorite for seizing and whipping, as over splices. I like a darker whipping which seems to better define a "splice" and perhaps simulate use of an oiled or waxed thread. For those unfamiliar with the terms, whipping is a heavy thread or cord used to wrap a rope end to keep it from fraying or a splice from unraveling and weakening, whereas serving is done with a heavier line to protect a larger rope from chaffe.

But enough of that.  I need to climb the ratlines and finish rigging the main topgallant yard.   Cheers, Gil

[gil middleton]

Hi Jerry,  Oops!  Another senior moment.  I'm looking in obscure books while there it is, right under my nose in the manual.  Many thanks for the heads up Jerry.  Copper would seem too soft a metal for the load while bronze certainly could handle it. Does anyone have the definitive answer?

Cheers, Gil