Licorne 1755 by mtaylor - 3/16" scale - French Frigate - from Hahn plans - Version 2.0 - TERMINATED

[BANYAN]

I want one, I want one!  Very nice use of technology to make the job a little easier and achieve excellent results.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[John Allen]

Marc,

 

Have caught up on your build cannot add any descriptive adjective that everyone hasn't used already. 

 

Magnificent kudos X 10 , this Buds for you 

 

Our best to the Boss

[Jack12477]

Nice job on the planks, Mark. Looks like the Deathstar is back to full power

Edited February 12, 2017 by Jack12477

[cog]

How far has it evolved ... Deathstar III or IV in the mean time? At least it works and the results are mighty fine. Those deck planks have a very nice caulking to it! Pitty can't get the same effect with a lighter. that's more to my wallet's liking

Edited February 12, 2017 by cog

[Beef Wellington]

That deck looks great Mark.  Its still a mystery to me the marking out of the curved planking but looks awesome.  Are you going to place individual planks or are they 'one piece'?  If individual, I wonder if its possible to alternate planks from stb and port sides so the grain of the wood differs so it doesn't look like its cut from one piece.  Very jealous of that deck Mark  

[captainbob]

 

I'm having a lot of fun with this once I figure out what needs to be done.  The "how" is just as important as the "what" in this case.  Frustrating at times, but very satisfying when it comes together.

 

This is pretty much virgin territory for me...

 

Ah yes,  that's where the fun comes in and joy of accomplishment.

 

Bob

[mtaylor]

Thanks for looking in.   So far, so good on planking.

 

 

cog, on 12 Feb 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

How far has it evolved ... Deathstar III or IV in the mean time? At least it works and the results are mighty fine. Those deck planks have a very nice caulking to it! Pitty can't get the same effect with a lighter. that's more to my wallet's liking

 

This Deathstar II, Rev2.   I think.  Ah.. just call it Deathstar III.  I've got one pesky setting that won't stay in place on a mirror adjustment.  Considering my options....  Locktite, epoxy, or weld it.   

 

That deck looks great Mark.  Its still a mystery to me the marking out of the curved planking but looks awesome.  Are you going to place individual planks or are they 'one piece'?  If individual, I wonder if its possible to alternate planks from stb and port sides so the grain of the wood differs so it doesn't look like its cut from one piece.  Very jealous of that deck Mark

 

Jason, 

 

Here's a couple of screen shots that might help.

 

The first is complete drawing (as of today) with all the layers of which there are 10.  I started with a scanned image of the deck, then added reference lines (red and blue).  Then each part of the deck got it's own layer so I could lock it and turn it on or off as needed.

 

The red tick marks off the vertical lines is where the planks cross the beams (actual measurements).  I started in the center and worked both ways by copy/pasting the original set of marks and then adjusting the size to fit the space (scaled them).  So far, so good.  It seems to be working.    This is a computer variation of the planking fan that Chuck uses in his planking methods.

 

 

 

This shot is of the cutting layers for the plankings....  

 

 

Any questions, feel free to ask.

[popeye the sailor]

very nice work Mark......... the laser cutting looks awesome!  

[Jim Lad]

The Darth Vader of deck planking!   Looking good, Mark!

 

John

[vossiewulf]

Great idea Mark.

 

One I was thinking of after watching everyone spend time using filler blocks to fill in overlarge gaps between bulkheads for planking was whether someone with a laser rig and reasonable CAD skills could create filler kits for popular retail kits. For example you could do two tweened bulkheads that get added between each kit bulkhead, at that point no gap would be big enough to cause a problem. Or simpler, but less elegant, would be bread and butter pieces that you stack and then slide in between bulkheads that are cut to fit specific bulkhead locations.

 

I think those would be quite doable and I at least would pay some money for something like that to cut out an annoying step by using laser-cut pieces that would solve the problem not just for the bow and stern but provide pieces for midships as well, I would use them.

Edited February 13, 2017 by vossiewulf

[mtaylor]

Great idea Mark.

 

One I was thinking of after watching everyone spend time using filler blocks to fill in overlarge gaps between bulkheads for planking was whether someone with a laser rig and reasonable CAD skills could create filler kits for popular retail kits. For example you could do two tweened bulkheads that get added between each kit bulkhead, at that point no gap would be big enough to cause a problem. Or simpler, but less elegant, would be bread and butter pieces that you stack and then slide in between bulkheads that are cut to fit specific bulkhead locations.

 

I think those would be quite doable and I at least would pay some money for something like that to cut out an annoying step by using laser-cut pieces that would solve the problem not just for the bow and stern but provide pieces for midships as well, I would use them.

 

 

Interesting idea.  Most use balsa and then paint it with a 50/50 mix of water and white glue to  harden it.  The problem with laser cutting would be the thickness and type of the wood as lasers are limited in that respect.  It would be great if the manufacturers would increase the number of bulkheads but we know that won't happen. I think there are some out there who do include some bread and butter type of bow and stern fillers that still need be faired.

 

I've not tried anything like plywood or MDF on my machine yet... nor have I done any pieces over 6" long by 3" wide yet.   So I'm not an expert.

 

Check around your area for someone with a cutter like a trophy company, engraving company.  They usually have some pretty powerful machines that might be able to do it.  I think Dave at the Lumberyard has access to a 100W machine which might be able to do something like that but what the cost would be for one-of's I have no idea.  

[vossiewulf]

If they're not available I have no issue making something like that for myself. I was more thinking it's a niche market that someone with a laser could make a little money in Create required files for top 10-15 kits, offer for sale, run them off on demand.

[mtaylor]

That could probably be done with the right equipment.  There are bespoke cutting service out there that have the equipment.  Probably, one would have to design, send the prints out for cutting some samples, and then give notice they're taking orders.      If you get some made for yourself, pop a notice in the trader's forum and see where it goes.  

[Erebus and Terror]

Very interesting indeed Mark. You know of my use of the laser cutter at my local library. However I have been reticent to use it for planking.

 

How do you measure the kerf? Do you calculate it then increase the size of the planks? That's how I do it, but it's never perfect. I always make my pieces slightly large and then sand to fit. 

 

Also, no matter how thin the stock, I find that the laser doesn't cut a perpendicular line - there is always a taper that has to be sanded down. How do you deal with that?

 

Keep up the excellent work. Yours will likely be the first laser-cut scratch build ever!

[Piet]

Nice planking Mark and not to forget the tutorials and interesting conversations regarding it.

 

Cheers,

[mtaylor]

Very interesting indeed Mark. You know of my use of the laser cutter at my local library. However I have been reticent to use it for planking.

 

How do you measure the kerf? Do you calculate it then increase the size of the planks? That's how I do it, but it's never perfect. I always make my pieces slightly large and then sand to fit. 

 

Also, no matter how thin the stock, I find that the laser doesn't cut a perpendicular line - there is always a taper that has to be sanded down. How do you deal with that?

 

Keep up the excellent work. Yours will likely be the first laser-cut scratch build ever!

 

Good questions...  

I cut a 1" square in each thickness (and type) of the wood I'm using.  I then measure the kerf using the hole and the cutout piece.   Close counts and still end up sanding to fit.

 

As for that taper... in this case, I'm cutting the planks upside down.  When I flip them over to install, the taper works to my advantage on the curve of the deck.  

 

The one thing I did do was change out my lens from a 2" focal point to the 2.5" focal point.  Less taper. If 3" focal point lens ever becomes available, I'll try it.  The beam comes out of the tube, and bangs off the mirrors and actually widens a bit (not much but the brains who know this stuff tell me it happens).  Leaving the lens the beam goes V-shaped to the focal point.  Thus the shorter the focal point, the wider the taper.  The longer, the narrower the taper.

 

 Also, set the focus point halfway through the wood. It makes the kerf a tad wider but also reduces the taper by burning more of the material at the bottom of the cut.  No matter what we do, there's still some finish sanding to get things to fit and be square.

Edited February 14, 2017 by mtaylor

[Chasseur]

Wow you rock Mark! Way too complicated for me I am afraid.

Cool work just the same.

Jeff

[Erebus and Terror]

Thanks for the speedy reply, Mark. Those are all very useful hints. I'm going to try the focus tip you gave me - will be really useful on thick woods, I'm thinking. Keep up the fantastic work on this build!

 

 

Good questions...  

I cut a 1" square in each thickness (and type) of the wood I'm using.  I then measure the kerf using the hole and the cutout piece.   Close counts and still end up sanding to fit.

 

As for that taper... in this case, I'm cutting the planks upside down.  When I flip them over to install, the taper works to my advantage on the curve of the deck.  

 

The one thing I did do was change out my lens from a 2" focal point to the 2.5" focal point.  Less taper. If 3" focal point lens ever becomes available, I'll try it.  The beam comes out of the tube, and bangs off the mirrors and actually widens a bit (not much but the brains who know this stuff tell me it happens).  Leaving the lens the beam goes V-shaped to the focal point.  Thus the shorter the focal point, the wider the taper.  The longer, the narrower the taper.

 

 Also, set the focus point halfway through the wood. It makes the kerf a tad wider but also reduces the taper by burning more of the material at the bottom of the cut.  No matter what we do, there's still some finish sanding to get things to fit and be square.

[BANYAN]

GemmaJF, i would be concerned with foam as after a while it starts to break down.  I used balsa, which I sealed with a diluted PVA - would this cut with the CNC hot wire cutter noting its composition?  Then again, I do not know the longevity of balsa either

 

It might also be better to move this as a separate line of discussion rather than clog-up Mark's build log if there is much discussion on it?

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited February 17, 2017 by BANYAN

[vossiewulf]

Gemma, I agree with Pat that foam is questionable if you intend the model to have any longevity, they don't generally age well and some kind of bad thing will happen when they do so inside a ship model.

 

Pat, no you can't cut wood of any kind with any hot wire cutter I'm aware of, they're designed to melt their way through with little resistance, I foresee fire extinguishers in the future of anyone who tries cutting balsa.

 

I think the only reasonable way to do it is the same way the kit is done, with additional bulkheads laser-cut out of material of similar thickness. As nice as a fully continuous surface to work against is, it's not necessary, the requirement is to make the gaps narrow enough to really fair the hull lines with enough bulkheads that the planks can follow a correct curve the whole way, and to provide enough support so planks don't sag under sanding between bulkheads.

 

It surprises me that no one has taken a run at making basic 3d hull models of most of the major kits using the kit bulkhead shapes in the correct locations, there is more than one possible aftermarket application of a library like that.

 

In this case once you have the skinned model you can slice it anywhere you want and there's the profile of a bulkhead in that location. All you need to do is add enough extra to allow the fairing sanding and there's the final bulkhead that would need to be cut. Very easy to produce versions that use 2, 3, 4 or more new bulkheads between the existing ones. Only other factor is checking the keel/keel plate part to see what kind of fit you need for the new bulkheads.

Edited February 17, 2017 by vossiewulf

[vossiewulf]

Yes, apologies to Mark for late-night threadjacking.

[mtaylor]

No problem.  Moving this to better forum like the Framing area would probably get more eyes and ideas.

 

I'm still fussing in the shop so nothing to report.

[cog]

I'm still fussing in the shop so nothing to report.

 

Stop fussing, buy the thing

 

So what are you fussing about now ... Deathstar II subversion 5 release 59 ...

[mtaylor]

Buy what thing?   I'm cleaning and sorting out so small planking problems.  just fussing about and not 100% focused.      

[Greg the peg leg sailor]

G'day Mark

Just wondering if you know any forum on MSW that deals with laser cutters etc.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Greg the peg leg sailor

[mtaylor]

Use the tools section, Greg.   I think (vague memory here) I put my review there.

[cog]

Buy what thing?

The one you went to the shop for ...

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Mark,

 

is ist right, that on French ships thy don't use the 3 But Shift or 4 But Shift System for the planking sheme?

If they use it, you have to change the ends of the planks in your last picture.

[Shazmira]

Mark, long time no "see". Wow you have made some serious progress since I last looked in. She is looking beautiful. Your attention to detail is paying off brilliantly!

[mtaylor]

Hi Robbyn,   It's great to see you again.  I hope all is well.

 

Mark,

 

is ist right, that on French ships thy don't use the 3 But Shift or 4 But Shift System for the planking sheme?

If they use it, you have to change the ends of the planks in your last picture.

 

Rats...   I had to flip the coin and chose wrongly.   The picture below is behind the times from earlier this week as I'm installing the second segment of planking at this point and have already cut out all the wood for the rest of the deck.   I'll pause and think this.

 

Edited February 19, 2017 by mtaylor