Beavers Prize 1777 by Mike Y - 1:48 - POF - Hahn style

[Mike Y]

Thanks for advice, Mark! It is something I could never guess before starting to fair the hull, it can only come with experience! Will cut "just outside the line".

[Mike Y]

Finished 4 frame blanks and cut 4 frames in total. 

Last blanks were laminated using really strong clamps, that squeeze the glue under blanks like the previous clamps were not able to do.

 

Surprisingly, I cannot find any difference in lamination quality when I look on a cut frames. Thickness and consistency of lamination looks the same. Probably I was overthinking it

What turned out to be more important is an edge joint of a blank pieces - they should fit really tight, my table saw can't give such a clean cut, so on a last few blanks I used a belt sander to make sure that joints are perfectly tight. And that is visible on a frames.

 

However, I will need to trash one frame. It is all due to the ugly grey spots on a frame blank stock. When sanded, they look even uglier. On a right side of a photo - healthy swiss pear, on a left side - smoker's pear

 

 

Seriously, why are they included in the timbering package? What am I expected to do with such wood? It is not suitable for a modelling, I will just trash all the wood with that grey areas, and there are quite a lot of planks with that defect

Or I am being picky? Don't think so, the defects in the wood are striking. 

Edited September 22, 2014 by Mike Y

[AON]

Mike

Not certain why I was avoiding "Oliver Cromwell" but curiosity got to me.

Am I glad I visited.

I'll be back!

Alan

[mtaylor]

Mike,

 

Hang onto the blanks with the defects.  Unless the discoloration is visible on the outside of the frame where most people will look, it won't be seen between the frames. Also, some variation in the color can provide and interesting appearance. I'm sure on the real thing all the wood didn't match.   I do agree that there is an issue with the supplier.

 

The joints are a hard thing to get right.  Cut, sand, fit, and rework as needed.  A pain, but a necessary one if the hull is unplanked.

 

Everything from here is looking really good.

[Mike Y]

Mark, you are right, the outside edge of a frame is more important. But on the outside it looks simply like a dirty grey stain.

I understand that wood have a colour variation, and it is good. But long grey spots are not ok

 

Alan, welcome! Happy to see you

[JPett]

Ahoy Mike  

 

I am with you on this. While a big part of woods beauty is the diversity; there is a point where it goes to far.  In most other fields; products with less desirable traits are sold as seconds. Expecting this from our wood suppliers is not asking for the stars. 

[Trussben]

Hey Mike,

 

I usually cut my frames and leave about 1/32" outside of the line. But if I'm cutting and I stray and hit or even go over the line, i throw the frame away and make another one.

 

Ben

[Jack Panzeca]

Hi Mike,

I like what you are doing. The practice frames are a great idea. A plank on frame model is on the horizon for me and I hope to learn with you. I have considered Lumberyard myself and your experience will help me decide.

 

Have you contacted Lumberyard about the substandard material? Maybe they will replace it. I purchased a small amount of sheet stock from them to see what the quality was like and it was very nice clean wood.

 

Good luck and keep up the good work.

[Mike Y]

Ok, I probably was too emotional while writing previous post. Reviewed all planks today, separating them into "normal" and "trash it" piles.

31% of planks are defected (big grey areas, etc). Luckily, on most of them defect takes around half of the plank, so in total I am going to trash around 15-20% of planks. That would be probably ok, because I am hoping that there was a reserve for oopsies.

Close-up of defected wood:

 

Normal wood:

 

Even without grey spots, note the colour deviation on a "normal" pile.

it is clear that Lumberyard have a "prime" wood, that is used for laser cut parts. They are really good - quite consistent dark colour, amazing:

For some reason, for frame blanks Lumberyard use second sort pear. That is fully understandable, with Hahn method most of the wood package is a wood for frame blanks, and using cheaper wood probably makes a big different cost-wise. 

But I would appreciate if they just offer a prime wood for frame blanks, for extra cost..

 

Will continue with that wood for a while. If after 10 frames it would be obvious that this wood is too bad - will recycle all frames and make a new ones with a wood from Hobbymill. I saw their swiss pear in a various build logs, and it is very consistent in colour. And I have boxwood from Hobbymill, which is the best would I ever saw. No problem with it, happy customer.

 

P.S.: I have no intention on blaming Lumberyard, but it would be fair to post a photos of a wood that you get in a package. Sorry for rant, but it is quite disappointing to feel the second rate customer, who got the second rate wood.  

Edited September 22, 2014 by Mike Y

[tlevine]

If you decide to order pear from Jeff, please have him send you a sample first or else commit to using all of the wood from the Lumberyard for another purpose. I purchased the pear for my Hannah from the Lumberyard (in billets which were milled later).  I had no problems with the quality other than a few pin knots.  I ordered an extra board of pear from Jeff and it was a very different color.  Jeff's pear is "pinker."

[Mike Y]

Yep, saw in the Swan or Echo build logs, that Jeff's pear is quite different indeed. Darker, more cherry-ish

Next frame, this time I am an idiot. Missed a tiny crack on a frame blank, after sanding it is becoming very clear: 

 

The colour variation of a brighter/darker pear might be actually good. Hard to say, need to make at least 10-15 frames and dry-fit them, to see how it really looks together.

 

Now the plan is simple - assemble the keel, install 4 "key" frames (I selected frames 4, 10, 16, 23), make sure that everything is measured correctly - and then start a frame mass-production!

[Trussben]

Just wanted to chime in on the wood coloring, I got the Swiss pear from Jeff for my Pegasus and the entire order the color is very consistent, this is because Jeff tries to make your entire order from the same slab of big stock for this reason.

I have no idea how Dave at Lumberyard does his milling but you would hope he does it the same way.

 

Ben

[Mike Y]

Ben, actually just recently I was looking on a photos in your log, looking on your nice wood, thinking "yep, there is Pear and pear...."

[Mike Y]

Removed the nasty laser char. In hindsight, it is good that I selected a timbering set without laser cut frames, the char removal process is messy and definitely not pleasant. In his youtube videos, Dave recommends to remove the char using the shaving blade. It works only to small extent, because char is pretty deep in the wood.

 

Here are the laser cut pieces on a different phased of cleaning:

 

Another issue is a bad precision of a laser at some lines, they are cut with "steps", so lots of wood should be filed away to make that surface smooth:

 

Some joints are too wide - they fit tightly with char, but if you start to remove the char (and the "steps") - then the joint is too weak: 

 

So I cut away that joint and scratched a new one

 

Another improvement was a deadwood - supplied laser cut deadwood was made of a single piece, which is too far from desired level of correctness. So I made a better one. 

But it was a hell of a job to nicely fit all the curved timbers together! It is easy to make a tight fit when parts are straight, but when they are curved - it really needs a skill. Here is how ugly it looks when just cut:

 

 

Next time will try to cut smoother... It took around 4 hours of sanding and filing and sending and filing to make them fit. 

Resulting fitting is not great, but next time will do better:

 

Edited October 7, 2014 by Mike Y

[Mike Y]

End result:

 

 

 

 

Now the fun part - cutting the rabbet. I do not have any power tools to do it, so will make some hand jig and will slooooowly cut it with chisel and knife. Now when the keel is assembled, it would be a pity to ruin it by making a bad rabbet.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Mike Y

[Omega1234]

Hi Mike.  I really like the way you've been able to get a nice precise joint between each piece; which is especially evident in the last two photos in Post #46.  The keel looks great and it sounds like you're off to a great start.

 

Well done and happy modelling!

[mtaylor]

Very nice work, Mike, on some difficult areas. 

[tlevine]

Looking good.  The rabbet is no more difficult than the aft deadwood.  Mark it out first and then take your time.  If you find yourself getting hurried then stop and come back later.  I start my rabbets with an 11 blade that the tip has been broken off of and either a steel ruler for the straight sections or a french (or ship's) curve for the stem.  You can grind the angle for the rabbet into a straight-edge razor blade and use that as a scraper to deepen the rabbet and avoid oopsies.

[Mike Y]

Toni, thanks for the advice! I am probably just overthinking it

Digged through various blogs here - indeed, looks like a light passes of blade, chisels and scrapers will work nicely. Just do not use power tools and do not rush it. Hope it will work out!

 

Omega, Mark, thanks a lot!

[JPett]

Ahoy Mike  

 

If you are intimidated by this task you are not alone. I would suggest the same procedure you used on the frames. Get some scrap wood 

[Mike Y]

Thanks everybody for the advices, it is really much easier than I thought

After a lot of experimenting with scrap wood, it turned out that scrapers will not give a straight enough line. There should be something that ignores the grains and goes straight.

So I ended up with a following process, not saying it is the only correct one.

 

Use flat chisel to set the straight line for the rabbet, making two cutoff lines.

 

Cut away the wood between those lines with a blade:

 

Use triangular file to shape the rabbet. Do straight passes:

 

That triangular file was the key part, it keeps the straight line, not going sideways due to a wood grain.

Also if you need to add an angle to the rabbet - just change the angle of the file:

 

 

 

 

[Mike Y]

However, I decided to make rabbet much later, when all main frames would be cut.

Before it, would be hard to determine the proper angle of the rabbet, how planks will go. I am not going to glue the frames before they are all cut anyway

 

Assembled all parts on a framing jig:

 

It nicely decorates the modeling area

 

Now I know how to make a nice frames, keel is ready, so let's make some sawdust and produce all remaining frames!

Luckily that model will have just 40 frames, due to a bigger (non-correct) spacing between them, so hope to make it in 3-4 months. Winter is coming!

Edited October 13, 2014 by Mike Y

[AON]

somehow there is always more time in the winter months!

[Omega1234]

Hi Mike. Nice progress so far. A long way to go, but it'll all be worth it.

[Kevin]

can i have a front row seat please? watching with intrest

[Beef Wellington]

Glad I stumbled onto your build Mike, very interesting to see how these 'scratch' kits are supplied.  You're doing a great job, look forward to seeing more.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Beef Wellington

[isali]

The deadwood you made and filled looks great, what method did you use to fill? I've tried sawdust with watered down glue but it doesn't get into the crevices .

[Mike Y]

isali, there was no filling for deadwood. Usually triying to shape it so it will fit without a filler...

Thick PVA based glue acts like a filler by itself

Experimented with a black tissue paper to make joints more pronounced, but it makes them too black, too bright. Not sure it is a good thing on that particular parts.

 

Jason, Kevin, welcome!

[mtaylor]

Mike,

 

I picked up some artist's pigment (it's a powder) at an art supply shop.  Mixed with a bit of water than PVA, it does a nice job on simulating the caulking.  The more powder you use, the darker the glue line.   It seems to work pretty nice and I'm debating it with myself.    Ed Tosti (EdT) has mentioned it several times in his Niaid log.  Here's a link:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/232-hms-naiad-by-edt-160-frigate-38-1797/page-5?hl=pigment#entry8075  and another one:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/3453-young-america-by-edt-extreme-clipper-1853/?p=119364

[Mike Y]

Thanks Mark!

The hardest part is to decide how I want it to look like. Trying to imagine an image of a finished model, and fit various coloring on it best way to drive yourself crazy into a modeling block!