HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...

[Hyposphagma]

 

 

... anybody an idea what is in there? Nelson-brandy?

 

 

 

......handwarm ale....(lauwarme Cervisia) 

[foxy]

Looks a lot like scrumpy.

 

That will hallucinate anyone.

 

Frank.    

[popeye the sailor]

a 'patchwork orange'         must be someone who is in a lot of trouble

 

"son........have you seen where all my quilts,  got off to?"

[dafi]

The forecastle was rather easy to figure out, a bit more complex the poop is. Again Turner, Livesay and others show a build up bulwark, but how was it constructed?

 

The Trafalgar Companion suggests simple planking hanging on the hammock crane, as sometimes seen on the Jotica builds.

 

 

 

 

The plans and models of the Boyne/Union class - the taste of the art while Vic was rebuild in 1803 show a solid railing, which can be seen on other ships from 1780 onwards. as the Vic carried 6 carronades from 1780 to 1792 on the poop, one could suggest, that this railing was introduced at one point.

 

The model of the Boyne shows this railing with panelling inside, a very nice version :-)

 

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/68233.htmlSLR2274

 

Als kleines Schmankerl folgt die Positionierung der Pfosten der obsoleten Platzierung der Karronaden.

 

As a small goody I keep the positioning of obsolete the gunport, but also panels them over.

 

 

 

Alternatively there also is the version of the railing being paneled flash over, something the sketch of Turner suggests on the damaged starboard poop ladder bulwark. Strange the positioning of the hammock cranes. Were they hanging outside? Or was this a double wooden railing?

 

 

 

 

 

The last possibility is a build bulk ward as there is at the forecastle, just without ports. Also this version is slightly higher, like the hammock cranes are today.

 

 

 

Both Turner and Livesay show clearly by the width that there are hammock cranes present. Those cranes are still missing in the last 3 drafts.

 

So what to think about these options? It stays intriguing ;-)

 

XXXDan

Edited April 5, 2016 by dafi

[popeye the sailor]

hard to think that they would be hanging outside the bulwark......they'd be in the way of the mizzen shrouds.   perhaps the hammock cranes were built off of the inside bulwark walls.   the sketch shows the bulwarks thicker,  but is pretty vague on what makes them look thick

[foxy]

They would have to be out side the hammock netting to allow entry from the Quarter deck to the Poop.

 

As for guns on this deck, with the slope, mast and other things it would be very difficult I should imagine to mount them.

 

Interesting all the same.

 

Frank 

Edited April 7, 2016 by foxy

[rybakov]

Whatever it is it's covered by canvas all the way to the deck, so I would go with cranes and

aligned with the quarterdeck cranes.

 

About the guns they seem to me to be swivel guns......sensible precaution in battle if you're boarded

 

 

cheers

Zeh

[dafi]

There were 6 carronades on the poop from 1780 to 1792. These were not refitted after the great repair. Neither the less the ports could still be "visible" in one way or the other in 1803, if this area was not subject of a complete rebuild.

 

The best guess so far for the swivels is the use as signal/salute guns, as the ship was visibly disarmed when Turner drew it.

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

Sometimes research is like a big puzzle, everyone can bring in a piece and suddenly one gets a complete new picture :-)

 

Happend in our german forum, I was in resaerch of a detail on the poop railing and came out with something completely different but nice and surprising. Being pointed from two different friends towards one detail, once to be seen on the contemporary 1765 model of the Vic and once on a Turner sketch after Trafalgar, one could make out something that was most possibly not a mere decoration frieze but a helm indicator!

 

And on we went immediately.

 

 

The build was rather simple, a simple slide for an indicator moved by some thin rope to the left and to the right.

 

The pointer was bit itzy bitzy teeny weeny, a 0,3 mm drill into som 0,6 plastic ...

 

 

... and the test assembly ...

 

 

 

 

... and on my tryout model on location :-)

 

 

Looks smart and ingenious, learnt something new, added a nice detail to all things Victory and beyond and I am happy.

 

Hope you are too :-)

 

Cheers, Dr. dafi

Edited April 10, 2016 by dafi

[mtaylor]

The might very well be what the painting shows.   I'm surprised it's not on the sketch, though.  Then again, different points in time and different looks/equipment.

[dafi]

There are more details to be found here :-)

 

                                          #5                         

 

XXXDAn

[Richard Williamson]

Wow!

[Kevin]

that is quite a discovery, 

[foxy]

Nice work Daniel, will have to see if I can add this without disturbing to much.

 

Is a nice piece of work you are researching here.

 

Frank. 

[dafi]

What a sad story ...

 

... after the big modelers meeting in Augsburg near Munich in March my sweet black´n´yellow beaty even did not make it back up to the tinkering table and had to stay in the staircase ...

 

... the  poor one, all alone ...

 

...

 

... :-(

 

Until today she went underneath the knife again - HUUUUURRRRRAYYYY!

 

First relocating the skylight of the poop. Being a little to much upfront ...

 

 

... bravely using the knife ...

 

 

... and resettling the cut out.

 

 

And then something I always wanted to try out ...

 

 

... the new planking in between the binding strakes still parallel because of the 2 middle poop deck partners ...

 

 

... but then getting curved towards the outer hull. After gluing the planks cutting with a plexi ruler in several turns into shape ...

 

 

... and so I got a nice deck with curved planks and that even in 1:100, so no more excuses for the bigger scales ;-)

 

XXXDAn

Edited May 30, 2016 by dafi

[amateur]

Don't ask.... don't ask....

 

sorry... couldn't resist any longer.....

 

Are the binding strakes really parallel?

 

Jan

[dafi]

In real life or in the model?

 

XXXDAn

[amateur]

model

[dafi]

They are parallel :-)

 

I was not sure how to place them, but it looked strange in the area of the skylight having them curved there. Also with the two middle partners in the back.

 

XXXDAn

[Blue Ensign]

Intricate work at that scale Daniel, nicely done

 

Pleased to see you have got around to moving the Skylight aft.

 

M.

[dafi]

Dear MAurice, with all the good preparations you lot did at www.pete-coleman.com one can´t go wrong :-)

 

XXXDan

[dafi]

And anyway, the new position makes much sense, as it is much more centered over the room. The original Heller cut-out that is shown shown in this picture here on my unpainted model is is with its front edge exactly over the bulkhead of the cabin, leaving the back of the room dark. The black line is the optimised version shown in the previous posts and coincides with the (btw all wrong) splitline of the deck planking.

 

 

XXXDAn

Edited May 30, 2016 by dafi

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I never got the memo the skylight on the Heller Victory was situated wrong. Sigh. Oh well, one more thing I will have to live with. Because I am NOT pulling the poop deck apart at this point!. Is there a list somewhere of all the things contested or controversial about the Heller Victory? I know already about the entry port and the stern davits. What else is considered wrong? ( aside from the kit supplied blocks and deadeys, and perhaps the thickness of the hull at the gunport openings.)

[dafi]

The best source is the mentioned Victory-forum at http://pete-coleman.com/forum/, especially for the Heller kit :-)

 

The kit represents the ship quite faithfully as it was believed in the 1960ies to have looked like at this special October, 21st 1805, but since then "latest resaearch" revealed a lot of changes, not only for the color and still things are changing ...

 

And always to point out: The Heller kit in itself is a wonderful start and was really state of the art in the 1970ies research and production wise, but simply is outdated a bit. Most important: The form of the hull in itself, the stern and side galleries are imho the most true full of all the kits available - plastic and wood !!!

 

Not to give frustration upon all the brave Vic-modellers up to date, I strongly suggest only the bravest of the brave to have a look in there, and if so, to have all their sedatives, tranquilizers, calmative and defibrillators in reach, (ok, just kiddin´!) 

 

 

Here a small list of the items of the Heller kit that changed since then or are at least doubtful (?). 

- no side entry port (Well done Heller!)

- color (?)

- upper whale to narrow by a third

- forecastle barricades

- poop barricades

- stem to short behind the figure head

- foreward looking cherubs 

- beakhead bulkhead ports and doors to low

- heads barricade (?)

- seats of ease to small !!!

- beakhead bulkhead railing barricade (?)

- position of the carronades

- missing chasing guns

- for and main bits too low

- poop deck railing (see Turner discussion here)

- position skylight 

- side davits

- stern davits

- name cartouche wrong

- top rudder hinge missing

- different masttops

- wrong height of stern chasing ports

- octogonal lanterns (?)

- anachronistic form of main anchors

- omission of stream and kedge anchor

- anchor shoe wrong position

- missing backstay dead eyes

- incorrectly configured slots on the marine gangboard.

- Dolphin striker of incorrect shape.

- rigging destructions ...

- ...

and of course the feathers of Prince of Wales at the stern

 

I think B.E. still could name a few others :-)

 

Then there are some unvisible things like the two stories chain pumps, the number of fresh water pumps, the freshly rediscovered signs of the rudder indicator and still some even more strange glimpses of really horrid and creepy hints like the black and white stripes already going around the bow as published by Dodd as early as 1807 and perhaps already to be seen in the Turner drawings ...

 

 

 

Cheers, Daniel

Edited June 3, 2016 by dafi

[Gerhardvienna]

 

Not to give frustration upon all the brave Vic-modellers up to date, I strongly suggest only the bravest of the brave to have a look in there, and if so, to have all their sedatives, tranquilizers, calmative and defibrillators in reach, (ok, just kiddin´!)

Cheers, Daniel

 

 

 

Hi Daniel

I NEED all of this, and I dont build the vic !

 

Seems to be so much new stuff about the ship, to rebuild all of this will be a lifetime working!

How good, that the Danzig and the Cairo are not that complicated..........

Great work of art you are delivering to us!

 

Regards

Gerhard

[Blue Ensign]

Off the top of my head I think I can add one or two to your list.

 

Incorrectly configured slots on the Marine Gangboard.

 

Dolphin striker the incorrect shape.

 

Anchor shoe incorrectly positioned.

 

and don't get me started on the Heller rigging instructions

 

M.

[dafi]

Thank you B.E.  :-) :-) :-)

 

I took the liberty to add them to the spoiler list, always owing you credits to your always sharp eagle eye and cerebral database! Rare to be matched!

 

XXXDAn

[Kevin]

Nice work on the planking, I need to look through your lof to see how you did the netting on and around the boomkins

[dafi]

Hello Kevin, 

 

have a look here:

                                          #102                         

 

XXXDAn

[Kevin]

Thank you