San Francisco 2 by Shaz - FINISHED - Artesania Latina - Wood

[Bedford]

Oh Robbyn, Robbyn, Robbyn, the shrouds are the nice part !

There are hundreds and hundreds of knots to be done on the ratlines!

 

In all hoesty though, there was a pic posted a while back when you were asking how the shrouds should go over the mast, it showed how to tie the ratlines

 

Use the knot shown as it will look right and it will be easy once you get the hang of it. I use a long pair of angle nosed tweezers to pull the line through the knot and you end up doing an action not unlike crocheting. You can also use the tweezers to slide the knot up and down the shroud to get it nice and neat, just grab hold of the shroud with the tweezers ever so lightly and then push the knot by sliding them up or down accordingly.

 

Cut the line to about two feet long, run it through the wax then start, I leave a  bit at the last knot incase it comes lose so cut about an inch out. keep going up the shroud and when you have used up your two feet of line just use a tooth pick or similar to apply a small amount of pva to the outer knots, don't worry about the inner ones because if the outer ones can't come lose neither can the inner ones.

 

When the glue has had time to set cut all the tails off leaving avery short tail.

[Shazmira]

Ok, quick someone tell me what I did wrong. This is my very first rat line, used clove hitches for knots and it only took me about 5 min.....from everything I have read this is supposed to be a really difficult part so what am I missing?

 

[newbuilder101]

Looks good. Seems about right- just under a minute per hitch. The trick is keeping the right tension as you progress upward, so everything stays straight. 

[DCIronfist]

Or is it 5 min per line times how many lines........

[Shazmira]

Lol, I haven't counted up how many lines....let's see, 108 lines, only 546 knots. Hmmm I highly doubt I can finish these in 9 hours...but maybe...guess I will see what tomorrow brings.

 

Question though. how high up the shrouds do I go...on the main and foremast the shroud lines are really close to each other about an inch from the top. but how close together is too close together?

[Shazmira]

First set of rat lines going well, just dont know how far to take them up the shrouds.

 

[mtaylor]

Robbyn,

 

The rigging plan should give you some idea of "how high".  On some ships, the top shrounds lower deadeyes were secured to the lower shrouds and then ratlines run in those.  (I hope that makes sense).  In which case, the ratlines didn't have to go more than one line above the securing point.

[gjdale]

Robbyn,

 

Great work! To answer your questions,

 

The ratlines should continue up to the futtock staves (which should be installed first). These will also help to keep the shrouds "spread" a little.

 

What are you doing wrong? I suggest that for the first and last shroud on each row, the clove hitch shoul be tied so that the "tails" point inwards. This will give you a neater finish when you snip the ends off. Also, the ratlines don't usually go across all of the shrouds for the first (lower) six rows or the last (upper) six rows. The first and last shrouds are omitted - can't remember the reason.

 

Also, another tip (if I haven't given it to you already). Tie every fourth ratline row first, then come back and do the ones half way between, then come back and do the remaining. This will help prevent your shrouds from developing an hour glass shape.

 

Good luck!

[Spiff]

Its looking good.

And I like all the little tips coming on this post - I will certainly try and remember Grants tip about every 4th ratline.

[Bedford]

To be scale perfect, I believe the shrouds should go up to the point at which the top mast shroud lower dead eyes are secured to the existing shrouds, as stated above in more technically correct terms, however, it is a small scale model and it may not be possible to get them looking right all the way up so just do the best you can. The ratlines look spot on !!

[Shazmira]

Futtock staves???? My kit has no staves??

 

Okay, took a look at my worthless rigging plans. OMG even the plans are not to scale at all. By the plans, they have nice even ratlines from the bottom of the shroud to the top, all evenly spaced, and gee theirs stop just below the crow's nest, by all accounts exactly 6 mm below the nest. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, yeah right!!

 

I only have a couple of "strings" that attach to the outer shroud lines and go up to the upper standing rigging. Seems my deadeyes for the rigging above will all be attached to the crows nest on the fore and mainmast, and there is no other rigging on the mizzen,

 

So yes, once again I will eyeball it, and take the ratlines up to where I can and just be happy with it.

 

I forgot about that tip of doing every 4th....so far, so good, no hourglass shape, but I can start doing the 4ths now.

 

Things on this model seem a bit off anyway, and the quality of the thread is crap, so I think I will just run the ratlines all the way across. I know I could cut them off (the ones I have done) but I hate to change anything now that might disrupt my tension and spacing. If I left the outer shroud lines out for the bottom 6 and top 6, I would only have about 6 rows that go all the way across. I will however change the direction of the knots on the outers...I think that will look better!

 

Thanks for everyones kind words and input.

 

Shaun, find a noobs log like mine, pair that with a builder who is not afraid to look like a blonde and ask questions...and wow, you get an awesome tutorial!!!

[trippwj]

Robbyn -

 

Do the upper deadeyes belay off (fancy sounding, huh?) to the lower mast in some manner - I am not familiar enough with the SF, but the deadeyes should be on the outer edge of the crosstrees, then what would be the chainplate on the lower deadeyes extends below there to some point.  Sometimes it is to the lower shrouds, sometimes to a band on the mast. 

 

The ratlines would extend high enough to enable a sailor to access the tops from them - whether via the lubber hole (if there is one) or the ratlines on the futtock staves.

[gjdale]

Hi Robbyn,

 

Futtock staves are horizontal wooden battens that are secured to the shrouds below the tops, roughly at the level of the hounds. The futtock shrouds are secured to these. (The futtock shrouds are the bottom ends of your topmast shrouds if you like - they secure the lower deadeyes for the topmast shrouds).

[Sjors]

I'm with you Robbyn,

 

My Mirage have also no futtock things……..

And I have to do also drill a few hole to the cross things (beams) to put in the deadeyes that gives you the opportunity to make shrouds that goes to the middle mast,

Wow, Am I typing that? Translation please!

So I watch your progress and maybe I will follow you...

You are quicker then I'm ( and also younger )

 

[Shazmira]

Ok, the plans don't show any belaying lines from the deadeyes for the upper shrouds, but close examination of the photos in the instruction (I say that with tongue in cheek) manual do show them. Appears they are just tied off to the upper ratline, no staves included in this model.

 

So, I will take my ratlines up to the point that "looks" acceptable.

 

Not age Sjors, years of cross stitch, needlepoint and quilting. I just ran all my line through a decent size needle and those clove hitches fly on the shroud lines. This kind of needlework I can do well!

 

In the future I think I will trade with someone, they can do all the reeving of deadeyes, and install all the shrouds, and I will do all their ratlines for them!

[Shazmira]

Tony, already planning the case out in my head. Not only dust as the enemy, but also hoping a glass case will prevent any bits from being knocked off by curious lookers.

 

Sjors, deal!!!

[lamarvalley]

Robbyn, your shrouds and ratlines look great... I'm right behind you but i have a question... A few pages back... on 53 actually, trippwj gave a great explanation and pics for the shrouds around the mast. I understood the pairs and wrapping around the mast, alternate sides etc... and I'm about to start that part... but one word... is throwing me... seized... "The part at the mast is then seized", what??? With what??

[Shazmira]

Serving is the wrapping of thread around the "rope" you are using as shroud line.  You are supposed to serve the part that will rub against the mast, and then seize the two ends of the string together as well. Let me find a pic for you that will make sense.

 

This is serving the lines. I borrowed this photo from EdT's Victory build. I failed to do this when I began because I did not do enough research before I jumped in. I did do it on the mizzen mast shroud lines, and found it a major pain in the butt to do by hand!!!

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?s=8560b2e62b33efdf060e96ea2fdaff24&app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=edit_post&f=10&t=84&p=56365&st=990&_from=quickedit

 

So then you take each "end" of the shroud line that forms your pair, pull it together around your mast and "seize" it together by tightly wrapping thread. Notice the white rope holding the two "sides" of the shroud line together above the dead eye. it is the same principle to do this at the top of the mast to hold your pair of lines together at the top, I just couldn't find a pic quickly of that and knew this one from Sjors trip was handy and illustrates it very well

I also found this great link in another thread that I bookmarked, this way of doing the seizing works very slick and neat! It also works very well for roping your masts!  http://www.shakuhachi.com/Y-BindingRepair.html

 

 

[Shazmira]

Randy, is that clear as mud???  In my mind, seizing is just a simple of way of saying the two pieces of rope are wrapped together... and seized tightly. From everyone I have talked to this is simply done using black sewing thread, which is what I used as well

[lamarvalley]

Thanks Robbyn... and yes, it makes perfect sense.... I was making it more complex than it was... not that it's going to be easy but I was looking at one picture and not seeing the 'seize'...

Your pics made ity 'crystal clear'

[mtaylor]

Grant,

The SF wouldn't have futtock staves.  The SF was before they became common practice.

[gjdale]

Ah, I stand corrected. Thanks Mark.

[Shazmira]

Hey no one corrected my explanation to Randy about serving and seizing, does that mean I have my terms correct??

If so, then it is a time for a happy dance

I learned something, I learned something!!!

[Shazmira]

Two shrouds are completed!!!

 

[sport29652]

You make the rat lines sound easy. Do you have a secret tool or method. Tried to tie one line and it ended poorly. Also how tight are your shrouds ?

[wim500]

Robbyn, those shrouds are looking great, well done and in a short time.

 

And I like the color of that hot rod, nice car indeed.

[robert1965]

Futtock staves???? My kit has no staves??

 

Okay, took a look at my worthless rigging plans. OMG even the plans are not to scale at all. By the plans, they have nice even ratlines from the bottom of the shroud to the top, all evenly spaced, and gee theirs stop just below the crow's nest, by all accounts exactly 6 mm below the nest. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, yeah right!!

 

I only have a couple of "strings" that attach to the outer shroud lines and go up to the upper standing rigging. Seems my deadeyes for the rigging above will all be attached to the crows nest on the fore and mainmast, and there is no other rigging on the mizzen,

 

So yes, once again I will eyeball it, and take the ratlines up to where I can and just be happy with it.

 

I forgot about that tip of doing every 4th....so far, so good, no hourglass shape, but I can start doing the 4ths now.

 

Things on this model seem a bit off anyway, and the quality of the thread is crap, so I think I will just run the ratlines all the way across. I know I could cut them off (the ones I have done) but I hate to change anything now that might disrupt my tension and spacing. If I left the outer shroud lines out for the bottom 6 and top 6, I would only have about 6 rows that go all the way across. I will however change the direction of the knots on the outers...I think that will look better!

 

Thanks for everyones kind words and input.

 

Shaun, find a noobs log like mine, pair that with a builder who is not afraid to look like a blonde and ask questions...and wow, you get an awesome tutorial!!!

Hello Robbyn,

 

I hope you mean this.

 

I made it in this way, see the pictures.

 

 

 

[Bedford]

The thing is Robbyn, forget what the terminology is, forget the crap plans, you are making ladders.

One climbs from the deck up the shrouds and onto the tressles or cross trees or if you will, crowsnest.

 

The top mast shrouds, which are the ones above what you are doing now will tie off to dead eyes and via lanyards to dead eyes on the tressle and those dead eyes will have a rope securing them to the shrouds below, these are the uprights of the ladders so you need to be able to climb up the shrouds til you reach the ones that angle out to the tressle, you then climb up them to the outer edge of the tressle so this is where the ratline "ladder" has to go. Make sense?

 

You can climb up the inside and come out onto the tressle through the "lub" hole which is where the shrouds pass through the tressle on their downward journey. If you did this though you would be referred to as a "land lubber"

 

Steve

[Sjors]

This makes a lot of sense !

Learn another nautical word……tressles.

I think I make a dictionary with all those words 

 

[Shazmira]

You make the rat lines sound easy. Do you have a secret tool or method. Tried to tie one line and it ended poorly. Also how tight are your shrouds ?

eric, I pulled my shroud lines VERY tight. My secret, thread a needle. Seriously, use a sewing needle, it makes it easier. I have a stiff piece of cardboard behind my shrouds with the horizontal lines drawn on it. mine sits tight up against the back of the shrouds, so by using a needle I can get under each line easily, pull the thread around, loop around again, make my clove hitch. I also use a pair of very sharp pointed tweezers. when I have the clove hitch formed, but not pulled tight yet, I use the tweezers to pull the first "half" of the hitch to the tension I need, old that with my thumb, and pull the next half tight with the tweezers. If I am happy with it then I pull tightly with my fingers to tighten and secure the knot. I honestly believe the needle makes it all easier. no using fingers to move and hold shroud lines (might stretch them).

 

Robbyn, those shrouds are looking great, well done and in a short time.

 

And I like the color of that hot rod, nice car indeed.

Wim, thank you. That Rod was my favorite from the show. Never thought a purple could look so beautiful on a car, but WOW.

 

Robert, perfect! Thank you for the pics, that is exactly what I needed to see. my instructions and pics are not that clear. Your shrouds look much less crowded at the top than mine do...hmmm, don't know what I did wrong, but I will work with what I have.

 

Steve, I am a land lubber!!! However, I think I made some passable ladders, at least I hope I did. thank you for your encouragement and explanation, it helps immensely.I  am a bit worried about how well those next set of deadeyes are going to look when I tie them off to the top ratline...hope they look as nice as Roberts!

 

Sjors, me too. I find having a working knowledge of some of the terminology helps, that way when I read it in instructions or on someone's log, at least I have an idea of what they are talking about. As a teacher I pride my self on constantly being a learner as well.