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Hubac's Historian

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  1. Hubac's Historian
    I'm in the middle of reading a fascinating paper from the Texas Historical Society, concerning the excavation, forensic research and reconstruction of a viable hull form, it's framing, planking and fastenning that resulted in the construction of two large scale models of La Belle. As the ship was actually a ship of the navy, an armed barque longue or corvette, there may be some pertinent things to say, there, concerning nailing vs/in-tandem with tree-nailing. I will return to that, later, after I've had a chance to read through the whole thing. Cedric, I see your point about 'tween deck headroom on the gun decks. That would make it possible for men 6' and taller to stand straight without any fear of hitting their head. Naturally, the run of the guns must bear some reasonable relationship to the tumblehome of the hull. I know that you are using AutoCad for your drawings, however, if you think it might be helpful, I can forward my GIMP drawing to you, to use as a tool for mapping out the run of the guns. My drawing is a very reliable scale layout, across the length (excepting my 3/8" stern extension, just above the stern counter) and height of the hull/upper bulwarks. This was absolutely critical for accurately mapping the frieze. For your purposes, though, all of the stock port locations are shown where they are supposed to be (except the aft most port on the first battery, which I moved forward 3/16"). Perhaps you could play with this drawing to re-loacate the run of your wales and guns. I think that, necessarily, whatever solution you arrive at will have to be a compromise of sorts. Let me know, if you are interested.
  2. Hubac's Historian
    I agree with Marc that knives and chisels provide a better, more nuanced finished surface; the small details can be more easily picked out with a knife/gouge/chisel. I like to use the rotary tool, on the other hand, to waste away the outer excess, and then define shapes up to the point where the larger details like Tourville's hat, his face, the folds of his coat, and the overall shape of his limbs and boots are roughly defined. Then, I'll come in with the knives and refine everything. As Gaetan mentioned before, good carving begins with good proportions; If the layout/figure/whatever doesn't look good on paper, within the framework of the ship, then it doesn't matter how skilled a sculptor/carver you are.
  3. Hubac's Historian
    So, Dan is correct for the 18th century, but only nails would be appropriate in the seventeenth century. One point for clarification: what exactly is meant by "dead" and "lively" works? Are the dead works the framing of the bow, or are dead works the wales and lively works the planking? This discussion does bring to mind the timber remains that were ressurected from under the parking lot in Cherbourg. If memory serves, there is a picture of a massive timber, which appears to be a section of keel. Whether there is any evidence of tree-nailing vs, iron bolts I can't say from memory, but these are reputed to be the ships (along with SR) that were burned at La Hogue. I believe they found five wrecks. Also of note are the remains of La Belle, which is a good example of a late 17th Century merchant ship. I will investigate these matters and see what there might be able to see.
  4. Hubac's Historian
    So it seems we have a solid concensus among our French speaking friends: the anchor lining was simply a double thick plank trimmed down into the shape of the lining and faired back to the level of the surrounding planking. So, to answer the earlier question about fastenning, it seems that Dan's answer is the best and most probable. For my model, I think this means that I must fill-in all of the current sweep plank lines and re-scribe to match the surrounding plank lines. The problem I see has to do with a few completely non-sensible lines that are really close to the wales. This is one of the pitfalls of the plastic model. I think the solution - the compromise - is to ignore those lines that are too narrow, because raised to the level of the wales they will really stand out, and then scribe to match the others. Thanks for that insight, guys! And Cedric, don't worry; the planning you are doing now will save you many headaches throughout your build. I was equally frustrated when my drawing ground to a halt, but doing some detail work on the hull has re-invigorated my excitement, as I see the small details I drew come to life. Those gains will sustain me for a while, when I eventually am forced back to the drawing board so that I can at least work out the quarter galleries and all of the large figures that surround them. I am hopeful that changing internet providers will solve the problem, as Spectrum/Time Warner is really terrible. Maybe it's just a matter of my modem being too dated. Maybe, at least for a little while, FIOS will be better until it just isn't anymore. Maybe, maybe, but I am not a computer guy.
  5. Hubac's Historian
    Here is the link to Cedric's build of La Reyne: Astounding concept!
  6. Hubac's Historian
    That's a fascinating detail about the double-thick planks, Marc. Was that a particularly French practice, or one more generally in use throughout Europe? I have also seen before this detail of running the filling plank between the lower main wales all the way to the stem. Again, I'm wondering whether that was particular to the French. Last night, I happened to be filling this area in, and I chose to shape the plank in line with the forward and aft curvatures, instead of to the stem. The choice was based, mostly, on observation, but also for aesthetic purposes.
  7. Hubac's Historian
    Marc, you chose well to apply your surgical skills to medicine, where you can earn a nice living, but they are equally on display in your woodworking. The joinery is superb, and really holds up under scrutiny.
  8. Hubac's Historian
    Absolutely, a pictorial history of setting the masts and spars would be of great interest! I appreciate the time crunch of modern living, though. Like you, I am using Anderson and also Lees to rig the model. Anderson will be particularly helpful for determining mast and spar dimensions, which I will need to do soon, because I will have to step shortenned masts onto the hull platten/base before I go too far with the actual build. I'll be looking in on you frequently for tips and solutions to the more vexing problems, as this will be my first serious attempt to rig a model. the last time I visited the Constitution was 6-7 years ago. Might we have crossed paths then? All the best, Marc
  9. Hubac's Historian
    Actually, like me, he is using the plastic shells. Most of it will be scratch-built, though
  10. Hubac's Historian
    Maybe, my friend, but I will say that what Cedric is doing to convert the kit into La Reyne is the ulimate kit-bash and he deserves all the glory for even attempting it.
  11. Hubac's Historian
    Also, to answer your questions: I'm not absolutely positive, but the ends of each plank were possibly nailed with two nails, but probably tree-nailed, and then tree-nailed in-between on frame locations.
  12. Hubac's Historian
    Those are excellent questions. What I can tell you is that the anchor lining protects the hull and wales from the anchor flukes as they ship the anchor out of the water and then lash it to the channels, so it's shape follows the arc or sweep of the flukes during this manouvre. The sweep does seem extreme, and that leading corner sharp (and perhaps more prone to rot), but what I am doing (as with most things I am doing on this model) reflects the artitst's view of what I have seen in contemporary sources. I am trying, through my research, to include the missing details of a period ship of this type; the details that should be there, but the execution is always a visual interpretation. I literally just draw directly on the hull until I like any given layout. A good example of my basis for this detail, and its execution, can be found in this Van de Velve portrait of the French warship Neptune, which was a contemporary of SR. http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/136158.html In the end, I am interpreting, with my artistic eye, another artist's view of the actual object, which would be subject to perspective and their own artistic choices. As such, these choices are always vulnerable to error. I try, whenever possible, however, to base my choices on the most reliable artistic sources - the Van de Velde family.
  13. Hubac's Historian
    Thank you for explaining your process, Marc. All of that seems like a well-reasoned approach and the fairness of your hull and wales and ports is the proof.
  14. Hubac's Historian
    I've been slowly organising the bow structures. The hawser inserts have been glued in, re-inforced along the back edge, and faired with a little putty. That enabled me to layout and engrave the "hunting ports," simply copying the 1" spacing of the guns that preceed it. Honestly, I feel I may have engraved a little too deeply, but there will be several layers of paint and a series of washes that will minimize that to a degree. The hinge strops were cut from thin styrene sheet, and although it is not really visible in the following pictures, I was able to nicely simulate the hinge strap nail heads, by pressing the point of a common sewing pin into the back of each strap, three times. I still need to make small ring pulls for the port lid lifts, but I'll have to experiment to find a method and material that looks good in scale - they are so tiny! I'm learning a few things about tiny metal work on Popeye2Sea's SR build log, right now. The work he's doing, there, is really astounding! In the meantime, though, I am building up the anchor linings. These pictures don't show it, but there will be a filling piece between the lower main wales. After gluing in the first strake, parallel with the lower main wale, I realised that I would need to adjust and taper the second strake so that the following strakes aligned better with the planking and middle wales. Maybe I should have redone and made this adjustment on the first strake, but I think if it really bothers me, I can putty the joint between 1 and 2 and re-scribe; there-in lies the beauty of plastic. To finish, the anchor linings will he sanded flush and for texture with really coarse 50 or 60 grit paper. I will simulate their treenailing, just as I eventually will for the rest of the hull with the tip of a hypodermic syringe.
  15. Hubac's Historian
    Hello Henry, I've been reading through your build log with great interest and amazement at your scale rigging achievements. Your metal work (chandlery) is some of the best I've seen, and I am heartened by many of the suggestions for improving the appearance of the carriages. I know you have discussed the outboard to inboard leads of sheets and tacks - and all of the inherent problems the kit presents on that subject - but I wonder what your thoughts are on chesstrees. Since I won't be using my kit's quarter galleries, I am thinking about salvaging the greenman figures from the quarter deck windows and using them as chesstrees. I suppose a lion face would be more period appropriate, but a greenman is not un-precedented. What are yor thoughts on chesstrees? Kind regards, Marc
  16. Hubac's Historian
    I suppose I see, now that your wale locations are indicated on the bulkhead patterns, but what about the rest of the layout? Going that extra step will certainly assist your efforts to convincingly tree-nail the model, as is evident in other pictures I've seen of your exterior planking. And one more question for the evening! It would seem that the un-planked balsa/bulkhead hull would be fairly fragile, however, as your planking progresses, have you noticed that the model both seems and is substantially more solid/rigid?
  17. Hubac's Historian
    A few points of curiosity for me, Marc: With regard to your plywood bulkheads, it appears that the lower section of each bulkhead is a separate piece, before the filling of the balsa. It appears to coincide with a particular waterline. Just wondering why? Also, I'm wondering about the first layer of planking that comes up to just beneath the main wale. It seems that it is perfectly flush with the surface of the faired-in bulkheads and balsa, which would mean that you had to have first cut a rebate into the bulkhead frames before assembling anything. It's hard to see, but this appears to be the case. I'm just curious as to why you wouldn't lay down a first layer of planking over the entire hull. The rebate seems like an extra step, although I'm sure you had good reason for doing it this way. One more question: your layout of the wales and all of what would be the actual framing, onto the un-planked hull is all perfectly fair and straight and regular looking. How do you go about transferring curved lines onto a curved object and have it all look so neat? Also, I like your solution to shaping the headers of the quarter deck ports; very clean!
  18. Hubac's Historian
    I have taken many of my cues from both Marc and Michel because they are they only two I know of to fully immerse themselves in study of the ship. I am so glad that you are posting here, now, Marc! As I say to everyone who doesn't know your ship, your work is peerless, and this model I think, when it is complete, will become the grandest vision of what the ship once was. I am personally indebted to both you and Michel for freely sharing information and your passion for one of the least understood "Great" ships. I'll certainly be following with great interest!
  19. Hubac's Historian
    While I love this Bakhuizen portrait, I agree that he is to be taken with a grain of salt. The Van de Veldes are a different animal, though. They hold a much higher degree of credibility, in my book, because there is such good consistency among portraits of their better known English and Dutch subjects. From a construction standpoint, it would simply make more sense to have support at the extreme edges of what is already a lightly built, and vulnerable structure. But one can never go wrong to follow what is known, and that is Berain's intended decor. Ultimately, I will mock it up both ways, when the time comes for that, and see which makes more visual sense to me.
  20. Hubac's Historian
    For half a minute, I considered simply adding extra figures at the corners, as I will soon have extras from Popeye2Sea but that would spoil the thematic harmony of the decor; there are only four seasons, not six. Although, here in New York, it only seems as though we have two seasons.
  21. Hubac's Historian
    I also believe that this is what is intended by the stern and quarter drawings by Berain. Lately, though, I have been stuck on an idea about how exactly, that main deck (I had mistakenly written "quarter deck" balcony, above, but that is the top most, single window on the QG) gallery is to be supported, where the corner wraps to the QG. What I'm looking at and thinking about is an enlargement from this Van de Velde attributed painting of the Battle of Barfleur. I wonder whether you have seen this work before, Marc: Soleil Royal is facing off against Britannia, in the center of the painting. The painting, itself, is quite large: 4' x 8', which would mean that the section containing SR would, itself, be large enough to discern some sense of detail, if only one could view it in person. The trouble is that nobody seems to know where this painting currently resides. It is most likely in private collection. Anyway, when one enlarges SR, and focuses on the area where the corbel supports to the main deck stern balcony reside, it appears that the outer figures of Winter and Fall are placed a bit further outboard than shown in the Berain stern drawing - such that the arms of these figures appear to literally support the corners of the stern balcony where it wraps to the quarter galleries. You'll have to maximize the image in your home browser (is best to get a big enlargement) to even see the fuzzy detail that I'm referring to, but it seems possible (and practical, for that matter) that the builders might have made small variances from the intended ornament, in order to more reasonably support the stern balcony, at the vulnerable corners.
  22. Hubac's Historian
    Welcome, Marc. I'm so glad you decided to bring your model to MSW ! The forum is in for a real treat.
  23. Hubac's Historian
    Very interesting, Marc. The changes are subtle, but effective. Not only did you relieve dead space around the quarter deck guns, but you gave just enough breathing room to the frieze above that it does not look cramped. Most significantly, though, the acanthus escutcheons are better aligned with the gunports. Will your main deck stern balcony wrap to an open walk at the quarters, with the two-window amortissement set in low relief against the ship's side? Or will the quarter galleries be completely closed?
  24. Hubac's Historian
    Marc, what specific aspect(s) of the quarter gallery did you have to change? Can you show an original and revised drawing?
  25. Hubac's Historian
    Are you kidding?! If I think it would be "of some interest for you guys?" Marc, people need to see what you are doing. Your model is incredible and an interesting counter-point to Michel's equally impressive model. Of course, if it were up to me, this would be a site entirely devoted to Soleil Royal, but I am an obsessive fan of the ship . Please post pictures of your ship.

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