knightyo

It almost feels like someone who is confident enough to tackle a POF would also be the type of person who would loft and cut their own frames.  I'm thinking you might have a larger pool of potential customers if you don't supply the wood, but do offer all of the templates needed for someone to cut their own frames, with very detailed instruction on how to cut/shape the difficult areas  (full-color photos/instructions, sexy book cover, etc).  I'll bet you could net out higher if you sold books at 300 bucks a pop (and low time investment in printing) instead of full kits at 2 grand (and a lot of time burned in creating material).. I could also see a lot of modeler's requesting a book (or set) as a Christmas gift from their spouse at 300 bucks a pop, but would not have success in asking said spouse to drop a couple grand for a kit.  If you found the right publisher and right mailing list, you might hit the jackpot. I've got a number of expensive books in my collection, but have no intention on creating the models; I just love having the books, looking at the photos, and knowing I could build the model some day if I ended up with an unexpected bonanza of free time.

If I were to tackle a POF, I could see myself paying for instructions/templates, but not the actual wood that I could cut/sand/shape myself.  The wood type is a limiter as well.  There would probably be people who might be interested in the kit, but only if it's in swiss-pear, etc. At this point in the game, if it were me, I'd create one or two kits and market them here and on your website, knowing that they would probably eventually sell, and then just replace them in stock one at a time as they do sell, so you could eventually recoup your investment, and also have a nice, random income source for as long as you want.  I think that in theory, with the right marketing, you could go either way; it would just be far less time consuming to create books than kits. 

EDIT: I would also absolutely offer this as a POB kit. 

2nd EDIT: Also as a miniature navy board project. lol 

Alan

I hear that.  Over in Brownsville, the air has cleared considerably; it was absolutely disgusting for a while tho.  I hope your other life things are able to resolve.  It's frustrating when life mandates that no modelling can be done.

Alan

The Pacific Northwest is pretty easy living.  We escape (mostly) most of the natural disasters the rest of the U.S. has to contend with, and it's pretty laid back.  

Alan

To me, only about one out of every hundred models looks better with figures unless exceptionally well painted/placed.  Even then, it seems like figures on a model take away from it's elegance.  I'm probably in the minority however, and fully acknowledge that I have strange tastes. I also admit that I've just purchased figures from Chris at Vanguard Models; not sure if I'll ever place them on a model, however; they were just too cool not to purchase.

Alan

I was initially surprised at the depth of oil canning effect in the photos, but now that I think about it, with sides that are basically flat, the waves hitting them head on would definitely have more of an impact as opposed to hulls which are more rounded/curved; just such a strange ship.    Greg, I love what you did with the internals in the hangar; the flag looks great in there. 

Alan

Thanks Steven

Still working on the binnacle project.  The below is a contraption I've basically carved out of pewter which I figured could plausibly pass as a lantern base.  

the "bolts" loosely resting in each end are just pieces of wire that have been rounded off/compressed to simulate round bolt heads.   Once the piece is finished, I'll blacken everything.  As I'm looking at the photos however, it feels like the piece might be too thick, and overpowering the cabinet.  I might work on reducing the thickness of the piece as a whole. 

The lantern hook is just small gauge wire.  I have a little concern about the strength of this hook over time, however; it feels like something should be added before final installation.  The lantern shouldn't actually be pulling the hook down a lot however, as the lantern will also be supported by it's own wires coming in from the backside of the cabinet. 

The last photo shows the fairly complete lantern.  I just need to snip some excess wire off on the handle/chain.   The light itself looked like a supernova emanating through the panes when activated; to try and remedy this, I've applied some back acrylic to the panes which will hopefully dim the light quite a bit and maybe make the light look more authentic; sort of a candle-blackened look.

Alan

I agree with the coffee table idea.  That is too awesome to be placed in a box.

Alan

On 6/13/2023 at 9:40 PM, Louie da fly said:

The first three frames. Of course I'm labelling each one so I don't get them mixed up.

 

The build would be more exciting and memorable for you if you skipped the labeling process.

It's really looking great so far!

Alan

17 hours ago, Lapinas said:

I have spent 5 hours, but the progress is barely visible!

 

I've found that this also applies to yardwork as well as modeling.

Alan

This model looks fantastic!  It's stunning to hear that this is your first model.

Alan

This was absolutely fantastic information, Bob.  Thank you!

Alan

Hi Bruce, I'm in the same boat.  Also using swiss pear, also going to shellac and nervous about the strength of some of my very small yards. 

Alan

On 4/26/2023 at 10:26 AM, Ferrus Manus said:

Welcome to the club! My nasty quirk is that i do the research and find out something is "correct", put all my eggs in that "correct" basket, and then refuse to accept the fact that my primary source was wrong, and that only happens AFTER i have made a critical error on a ship due solely to faulty research. 

I can already feel myself doing the same thing on this build.  I've made a lot of fairly sketchy assumptions on this build, and instead of "Nina", I should probably call it "Fanciful Representation of a Ship and Hypothetical Components from the 1400's, 1500's, 1600's and 1700's".

I'm still working on the binnacle section of the model.  The drawer and actually entire front of the binnacle have been remade in order to accommodate a compass.   The compass still needs to be filed down a bit more in order to allow the drawer to close; that little piece of brass round stock is hard to handle.  It's too small to be able to be held between finger/thumb, so I've been holding it as tightly as possible on the tips of tweezers while gently running my smoothest file along the bottom to reduce its height. I'm shocked it hasn't fallen prey to the carpet monster yet. I'm still planning to print a very tiny compass rose to insert into the housing, with a drop of acrylic over the top to mimic a slightly convex glass top.  We'll see how that goes.  

I've also been able to file a piece of brass square stock into the shape of the lantern which will illuminate the surface of the compass via the mini light below at the end of the wire.  I'm planning to cut small slivers of clear acrylic, securing them to the inside of each "window" in the lantern with super glue and leaving the back of the lantern windowless, as that's where the light is going to be coming into the lantern from the back side. My plan is to fill the lantern with hot glue and then to  insert the light from the back which will hopefully secure the light permanently into the lantern.  The wires for the light will extend through the back of the binnacle to the mast directly behind and down through the deck right down through the keel and out through one of the hollow round brass stand tubes to the light switch.  My hope is that the wire will be completely invisible to the viewer no matter what angle they are viewing from.

That's the theory of this section, at any rate.  I have to admit that the little brass pieces are just unbelievably hard for me to work with, even under magnification.  At least I'm about done with each piece now, and just need to create a top for the lantern from which it can then hang from a chain coming down through the top of the binnacle.  In looking at the photo,  I see that I also still need to make another handle for the new binnacle drawer, and probably enlarge the front window a touch more as well.  I'm really looking forward to seeing what this little piece looks like after it's been cleaned up and layers of shellac applied.
 

This is going to look spectacular after you've applied your washes.

Alan

Thanks Steven, and as you say, it will be hard to prove I've done wrong if installing these, due to the scarcity of reference material!  I'm pretty sure if the original Nina suddenly appeared, a viewer would just laugh comparing my version to the original. 

I also agree with you Bob, in that this vessel probably shouldn't be relied upon as a historically accurate example.  I've already made a few decisions/guesses on my model which I'm pretty sure would be frowned upon by a researcher in the field. I might incorporate the look as below.  This (Santa Maria) is from the cover of the Anatomy of the Ship's series "The ships of Christopher Columbus".   However.....  In the same book, is the 2nd photo below, which is a model of the Nina built by a researcher, which shows "bare" masts, which made me wonder if the lateen rigged Nina didn't have these reinforcements at the bottom, whereas the larger Santa Maria did have them.  (Perhaps since the Nina was a smaller vessel lateen-rigged and originally used up and down the coasts of Mediterranean, reinforced masts weren't necessary?)  Or if it was just a matter of the researchers taste, not to add them.  I admit that the mast without the reinforcements/wedges looks a little more elegant.

Alan

That's exactly what I needed to see, Steven.  Thank you

Alan

2 hours ago, Jaager said:

Even if the wedges were not used to fix the rake of the mast - and I cannot imagine allowing a mast to careen around at the partners,  unless the crew wanted to take showers at the masts on the lower deck(s), something like wedges would be needed to stop rain water or seawater overwash from flooding at the mast-deck gap.  Tightly bound tarred canvas is what I understand covered the wedges on the weather exposed decks.  

Thinking about it, on multi-decked ships, wedges with no covering in place on every deck would serve to spread out the point of force transfer from the spars to the hull.

Thanks Jaager,

Below are the types of wedges (now that I think about it, I might be using the wrong term) that I'm referring to.   I'm creating a replica of the Nina, except as she was when she still had lateen sails.  And now I'll reveal the true nature of my question.   I fouled up the mainmast while shaping it; it is a perfect cylinder, but too thin at the base!  I was thinking that I could hide my error (and making the mast stronger) by incorporating the wedges around the mast as in the below photo to hide the fact of it being a little skinny at the bottom, but wasn't sure if that would be appropriate to do for a mast with lateen sails.   

Just now, allanyed said:

Maybe I am missing something, but I thought lateen sails were fore and aft rigged.  Regardless, if a mast passes through partners where it pierces a deck, wedges would work.  Mizzen masts on contemporary models that carried a lateen have wedges.   Small craft may be a different story where something like the half hoop steadies a mast against a thwart.

Allan

Whoops.... You aren't missing anything at all. I totally worded my question wrong, and will go back and fix.     Thank you for your response tho!  I'm building a 1490's Spanish Caravel, and intending to portray the ship with lateen sails, but just wasn't sure about the wedges around the mast(s).

Alan

In general, would ships rigged with lateen sails have wedges around the masts, or were those not usually used on fore-aft rigged ships?  I'm referring more to the types of wedges which extend up pretty far out of the deck around the mast.

Alan

Thanks Steven!  Montaigne  has made me think about adding perhaps two chests or maybe even a small side table.  One with a scroll of my name/build date, but perhaps the other with a scroll with a funny/inappropriate limerick or such.   That would sure be a surprise to a future viewer.  It would destroy whatever thoughts they had about the builder, however. lol  Decisions, decisions......

Alan

Chuck, I'll bet you've been cringing wondering how long it would take someone to ask you if you were also going to create a mini-Winnie as well, yes?  It even rhymes.  

Alan

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

Ok here is the final iteration for now.  Center light made the same as the outer lights.   I reworked the shape and configuration as Greg suggested.   These are not glued in yet.   But using yet another color I think these are probably a winner.   I have not installed any acetate for the glass either.   But these are as close to a contemporary model version as I have gotten thus far on a project.  They do look very crisp and clean as well.  What do you guys think?

 

Those are absolutely gorgeous.  I also think they look the best when matching the color of the surrounding wood, and agree that the center looks best as constructed the same as the outers. 

Are you going to have individual panes for each "square", or one sheet of acetate for each pane?  The posting recently in which someone used a heat gun to "melt" plastic sheet around panes giving the illusion of individual windows was pretty nice. 

Alan

1 hour ago, Montaigne said:

That’s my middle name. I know, it’s kind of long, but I’ve earned it. 

Impressive little build, that binnacle. Too bad about the scroll with name and build date. Hopefully you can find another solution for that, since it’s a fun idea!

It looks like we share the same long middle name .   Maybe the scroll can be placed into a small sea-chest somewhere on deck.  I do know that there are a few flaws on the deck in the cabin area that should probably be covered, so it should work out pretty well. 

One of my longstanding and fairly irritating quirks is to jump into a project, get so focused upon what I’m doing, and ending up doing something exactly wrong because I’ve forgotten the big picture.  That quirk has shown itself again; at some point, I’d forgotten that the drawer in the binnacle is actually what the compass itself sits within; it’s not a separate stand-alone drawer for maps, etc.  The below photo from “The ships of Christopher Columbus” shows how that drawer is supposed to be used, which I’d completely forgotten about once I started to cut wood.  

That shouldn’t be impossible to fix however, and it will actually allow me to create a little more elaborate compass than I’d originally intended.  I think I’ll cut a piece of brass round-stock to shape, insert a small printed compass image within, with perhaps a coating of something over the top replicating glass.  I’ll unfortunately have to get rid of the scroll/map in the drawer with my name/build date, which is disappointing.  I guess the scroll/map turned out to be slightly oversized anyway.