10th-11th century Byzantine dromon by Louie da fly - FINISHED - 1:50

[druxey]

I'll rise to the bait -again. My limited understanding is that conservators' wax (Renaissance) is pH neutral so should not deteriorate line like beeswax (acidic) will do in time.

[Tony Hunt]

Another possibility is to try using epoxy sealer (you can buy it at chandlers, in Australia they have brands like Everdure and Norseal).  Downside, the solvents in it are fairly nasty.

[Louie da fly]

Hmm, I'll have to do some thinking about that. I've already (unfortunately, as it now turns out) used beeswax on the shrouds. We'll just have to see how they last.

 

In the meantime,  I've made a flagpole,

 

 

 

cut a hole in the deck for it and installed it. Note that the flagpole had to go one side of the ship's "tail".

 

 

      

 

   

 

The flag is cotton fabric which I painted with acrylic, so thickly that it's been integrated into the fabric itself. That gave it the stiffness that allowed me to introduce some "flutter" into it. 

 

    

 

 

and some more work on the rigging. Coils of rope for the "free ends" of the shroud tackle (left) and the halyard tackle (right - hanging on the mast crutch)

 

     

 

 

Blocks for the halyard trusses (which hold the yard to the mast):

 

 

and I added an eyebolt to secure the tackle for it on the foremast.

 

 

But when I tried to make a hole for an eyebolt for the after mast . . . . !!!

 

 

I cut a new piece to fill the gap - allowing for a hole for the second eyebolt. I'm letting it dry then I'll put in the eyebolt.

 

In the meantime, here's the tackle for the fore halyard truss - the fixed end tied to the eyebolt and the free end attached to the cleat on the mast. Just waiting for the glue to dry.

 

 

And here's the upper end of the tackle, showing the block in place.

 

 

 

 

[Sceatha]

Looks great Steven. Such an awesome built and the figures make it feel so alive!

 

On 10/6/2020 at 11:59 AM, Louie da fly said:

Hmm, I'll have to do some thinking about that. I've already (unfortunately, as it now turns out) used beeswax on the shrouds. We'll just have to see how they last.

 

 

Beeswax is indeed slightly acidic, containing mainly fatty acids and it will slowly eat away at your threads. But keep in mind this process is veeeeeeery slow. I would bet that cotton or nylon, anything other than natural fiber (linen or hemp) would slacken due to its natural properties far before the acids take their toll. I used beeswax on hemp in some very old models, they are close to 15 years old now, and there is no serious deterioration to the threads yet.

 

The safe solution is indeed conservator's wax, also called micro-crystalline wax. Beware though, it has a strong smell to it, like petrol and you need to warm it up a bit so it penetrates the rope, like running the rope over a lightbulb, and then clean out any excess. The crystals in this wax are very small and it will leave a kind of white fluff on the thread if you make excessive use of it.

[Louie da fly]

Thanks everybody.

 

Sceatha, I might just leave it as is. As I've already installed the ropes, I might do more harm than good trying to wax them (wax on - wax off!). It's a shame about the fluffy texture, but it shows up more on the photos than in real life.

[Sceatha]

What I've done to get rid of fluff in unwaxed line is make a very quick pass over an open flame. 

 

It's works fine but it's probably not worth the adrenaline rush! As you say photos always tend to highlight such things that are really negligible up close like thread fluff and wood grain. 

[Louie da fly]

Er, yes. I really don't think I'll try that at this stage of the build.

 

[Louie da fly]

I'm working on putting the anchors in place. Here's a test placement (disregard the way I've tied the rope that fishes the anchor - it's just to keep it in place for the time being).

 

 

I'm not sure what I need to do with the anchors and windlass - are the anchor cables supposed to be attached to the windlass when the ship is sailing, or is that only for when she's raising the anchors? And if the cable isn't attached to the windlass when under way, what should it be attached to? Should it be tied to (say) the peribolos (pseudo-cathead) and then coiled on the deck? Or what?

 

I suspect this isn't the way anchors were dealt with in later ships and that may introduce uncertainty, but any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[mtaylor]

I'm thinking the anchor rope would be removed from the anchor and then stowed somewhere just to keep it from being underfoot.  As I recall reading somewhere.... the anchors weren't all that heavy and so a windlass might not have been needed for that.   Windless only used for raising masts then.

 

Which makes me wonder, if the same line for the anchor was also used to raise and lower the masts. 

 

 

 

 

[Louie da fly]

5 hours ago, DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:

Could we please see an overall picture of the entire model?

 

Apart from the awning over the poop deck and the steering oars, everything's pretty much done except for the fiddly stuff.

 

    

 

Mark, the anchors ranged from 47 to 67 kg (103 - 147 pounds). Probably two or three people could haul one up without a windlass, but this isn't something I'm qualified to comment on. Any ideas on whether this is too heavy to be hauled up by hand and would have needed a windlass instead?

 

But yes, it could certainly be used to raise and lower the masts as well.   

[mtaylor]

Steven,. I was just speculating using Occam's Razor  Something of those weights probably could be raised by hand.

[Louie da fly]

 

Dislodging the anchor could be done by "sailing (or rowing!) it out". Yes, maybe the windlass wasn't really needed . . . But it does look good, and I think I will wind one anchor cable around it, if only for the look of the thing.

 

And I'm sure there'd be plenty of other jobs on board ship that could need the windlass's help (such as Mark's suggestion of using it to raise the masts). 

 

8 hours ago, DARIVS ARCHITECTVS said:

Louie, your ship model looks SPECTACULAR!

 

Thanks very much. And thanks everybody for all the likes -they are much appreciated. It's getting to the point where I can actually see the end in sight. Still quite a bit to be done, but there's definitely a light at the end of the tunnel (I hope it's not an approaching train!)

[Louie da fly]

While I'm thinking about the anchors, I'm also working on the side-rudders (steering oars if you prefer) .

 

I'd originally intended to attach the rudders to the lower through-beam on each side, but I realised it wouldn't be able to pivot upwards if I did, so I used the upper beam instead. So I had to cut a hole in the planking on top of the support structure,  for the rope that fixes the rudder to the beam.

 

 

The rope allows the rudder to pivot around its vertical axis (for steering), and with a bit of luck it will also allow it to swing upwards out of the way when only one rudder is in use. The kind of lashing or whatever that was used is (of course) unknown, so I'm going with the theoretical one from the TAMU paper "The Development of the Rudder, 100-1600 A.D.: A Technological Tale"  by Lawrence V. Mott ( https://nautarch.tamu.edu/academic/alum.htm) to see if it works.

 

I drilled a hole in each rudder and inserted a brass pin.

 

 

and a corresponding hole in the upper beam on each side of the ship

 

 

Here are the rudders dry fitted

 

 

        

 

 

There is only one Byzantine picture that shows a tiller on a side rudder:

 

 

I'm probably going to copy that for my own. To get the tillers at the right height I put the steersman in place next to one rudder and marked where the hole for the tiller would have to be.

 

        

 

 

Note that I haven't yet finished the steersman's arms - I'm holding off till the tillers are in place. I wasn't sure if I wanted one tiller to be swung up out of the way, but I think it'll look better with them both in operation. Which means I have to carve another steersman. 

[Louie da fly]

What's wrong with these photos?

 

                    

 

For those who answered "the anchor cable is at the wrong angle to the windlass" go to the top of the class. And there's no way I can move the windlass to change the angle - there's no room. Looks like I won't be using the windlass for the anchors after all (sigh). Oh, well -the crew will just have to rely on brute force to raise the anchors.

[Schrader]

This happens a lot when yo build a “ real” thing. You realize that plans and theories not always can be executed 

 

GOOD WORK LOUIE!!!!  👍

[druxey]

I guess that the windlass won't wind, alas!

 

It's interesting the things one discovers on the journey of a build. Either "They can't possibly have done that like that," or "Aha! So that what that's for!".

[PhilB]

Actually, the windlass can still be used for anchor duty, as long as the rope is belayed around an appropriately placed beam. Surely there something there which can serve.

[Louie da fly]

I thought of that, Phil. Unfortunately there's nowhere to put one without it getting in the way.

 

Druxey, that was terrible (but in a good way) . Yes, whatever else, if I install a windlass in a future build I'll have a better idea of how it all works in relation to everything else. I have to say I'm learning a lot. They reckon that the best way to avoid Oldtimer's disease is to create lots of new neural pathways by doing and learning new things. At this rate, I'll never get it.

[BANYAN]

If not a beam, what about a 'lead' block on a strop or pendant Steven?  Is there anything back there to attach one to?  Welcome to my world

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Louie da fly]

Nice idea, Pat. But I don't want to go all "19th century sophisticated" on this - I'd like to keep everything as simple as possible, as it was before 700 years of extra evolution. I'll just cat and fish the anchors, lead the cables under the forecastle and leave it at that.

[luponero]

Every time I return to your site I am "open-mouthed!"
truly a beautiful job,

 

 

luponero

[Louie da fly]

Thanks, Wolf. That's very flattering (blush) 

 

Okay, I bit the bullet and installed the anchors and cables without involving the windlass - they're catted and fished, and the cables vanish under the forecastle as though they're coiled there.

 

       

 

        

 

      

 

I'm not sure if I should cut the free end of the anchor cable a little shorter. It looks like it might be a little long.

 

And I did something I've been wanting to do for a long time, and which I wasn't willing to do until I was near the end in case I broke it while working on other things - I've finally added the chain that supports the ramming spur at the bow.

 

I attached the chain to one of the eyebolts I'd prepared earlier.

 

   

 

 

Then made an "iron" (actually thin aluminium from a catfood container) strap to go around the spur. And drilled a hole in the front face of the forecastle, inserted the eyebolt and added a dab of CA glue to keep it in place.

 

           

 

I cut the chain to length and added another ringbolt on the other end. Then put the strap on the spur and glued it on with CA, and drilled a hole in the top for the second ringbolt.

 

 

       

 

And inserted the ringbolt and glued it in place.

 

   

 

 

   

 

VOILA!

 

And I've started making the tillers, using the "poor man's lathe"

 

 

That's all till next time.

 

[Louie da fly]

I've made and installed the tillers for the side rudders (steering oars) and put the rudders in place.

 

 

          

 

I discovered I'd slightly miscalculated the position and angle of the holes for the brass pins mentioned above. The tillers were too high and instead of facing directly across the ship they were angled a little aft. So I drilled new holes in the rudder shafts - fortunately the old holes are hidden by the shafts themselves when the rudders are in place.

 

I have yet to add the rope lashings that supposedly hold the rudders in place, finish the steersman I've already made (he's just standing there loose fitted at the moment), and carve another steersman for the other rudder.

 

I've been tidying up the free ends of the rigging (the bosun will be pleased) - adding coils to the ends of the loose ropes, particularly for the after yard where the tacks and vangs aren't yet ready to be pulled tight (and shortening the ropes - so the coils take the place of the bit I've cut off). That way they're not all over the decks.

 

 

I'm still thinking about the free end of the halyard tackle the crewmen are pulling on to haul up the yard. By rights, there should be a lot of it - if you take into account all the rope that runs between the blocks of the tackle. But I'm thinking of cheating and just cutting it shorter - otherwise it's just going to mess up the deck.

 

And I forgot earlier to post the fact that I've added ladders to access the side castles. I had to put them at the after end of the castles so they didn't get in the way of the oarsmen getting to their benches - they can just get in through the side of the castle, (except the  man right in line with the ladder, who can get to his own bench by climbing over the back of it).

 

[Roger Pellett]

Steven,

 

I just saw your progress report elsewhere on the forum.  Wonderful!

 

I was just studying Lateen rigged vessels in drawings by The French painter J.J. Baugean for a project that I have been contemplating for many years.   Baugean drew his drawings in the late 1700’s, early 1800’s and still shows guys crawling up the yards to furl the sails.

 

Roger

[Louie da fly]

Those guys were a lot tougher than we are today - no footropes, just shimmy up the yard - no problem! (I'm scared of heights anyway, so I'd be no use whatsoever.)

 

Here's another picture of the same thing, by the Portuguese painter João José Vaz (1859 - 1931)

 

[cog]

A wee bit late in the conversation but couldn't a block and tackle have been used on the anchor in combination with the windlass?

[Louie da fly]

Thanks for the likes, everyone. and for the flattering comments.

 

2 hours ago, cog said:

couldn't a block and tackle have been used on the anchor in combination with the windlass?

 

Possibly - were you thinking of supporting it from the lateen yard? Without something to support the block I can't see how you'd do it that way when the mast and yard have been lowered. Or were you suggesting that the block's tackle should be belayed to something lower down, such as the pavesade (railing to support the shields)? I'm a total duffer when it comes to this sort of thing - always have been. For me, learning how rigging works is like driving nails (blunt ones) into my brain.

 

[cog]

I would suggest something lower like th e pavesade you mention. You actually only need a fixed point around which the cable can be directed in a (more or less) straight line to you windgirl.

 

I stopped driving blunt nails into my brain when I found out I didn't have one

[Louie da fly]

Thanks for the idea, Carl. But I feel I'm committed now, and I really don't want to go back. I've got a solution that works now - that's good enough, I think.

[Louie da fly]

And on to the lashings for the side rudders. The diagrams of lashings in the TAMU paper I mentioned on the previous page weren't much help, so I worked up something of my own. Remembering back to my days as a Sea Scout at the age of 14 I remembered a lashing we'd used. But first I had to re-teach myself how to do a clove hitch, something I hadn't tried for 57 years, and even back then I'm not sure I really mastered it. Took me two or three goes with the instructions in front of me, then maybe half a dozen tries without. And I think now I can do a clove hitch from here on in - something I think is going to be very useful in future models involving ratlines(!). The clove hitch starts the lashing:

 

 

Then round and round:

 

      

 

       

 

  

 

This is a sort of universal joint made from rope. It allows the rudder shaft to pivot  left and right for steering under the influence of the tiller, just as in a stern rudder. And it can also swing upwards around the beam so the rudder lifts out of the water - either when only one rudder is in use, or to enable the dromon to be pulled up onto the beach stern-first.

 

Then for the lower lashing - this one is made of lighter rope. According to the TAMU paper on the previous page of this log, if the rudder hits a submerged obstruction, instead of the rudder shaft being shattered the rope will break allowing the rudder to swing up out of the way. Before beaching the ship this lower lashing is untied.  

 

       

 

 

      

 

That's all for now . . .