How Realistic Can One Make Sails?

[Kevin Kenny]

Has anyone ever used silkspan to make sails. I found this excellent video that suggest this is a good material to use. 

 

[druxey]

Dilute washes of acrylic paint will tone the material nicely.

[wefalck]

I have been using silkspan for several models over the past 40 years or so, for both, single-panel sails as well as sails made up from individual panels. I used the lightest variation, 14 g/m^2 I think, but think it is only suitable for scale of 1:60 or bigger. The material is thin, but not very tighly woven. For this reason, the 'holes' in the weave need to filled with paint or lacquer. Originally, I used gouache paint, because it is dull flat, but when acrylics became available I used those. Acrylics remain flexible, while gouache is brittle and might peel off. Rather than using white glue for adding the seams and re-enforcements, I used the same paint as for painting the silkspan. The bolt-rope, however, was attached using white glue.

For sails made up from individual panels, I prepare the material in a similar way as in the video and then cut strips of the required width. For assembling the sail, I draw its pattern on a piece of cardboard, which is then covered with clingfilm. The panels are glued together using the paint and the whole is let to dry thoroughly. Seams, re-enforcements and bolt-ropes are attached as before. Furling such sails has to be done with caution, as the narrow line of attachement between the panels can come loose quite easily.

It has to be said that such sails are opaque and not translucent as some people like them to be.

[Anguirel]

Hi All,

 

I read this thread with great interest and it answered all my questions except one. In all models I’ve seen the stichs that simulate the seams of the different panels are vertical straight lines. But in all the images of “real" sails this is a zip-zag stitch. Is this true only in modern sail making? Would it be wrong to use a zig-zag stitch on the sails?

 

 

[wefalck]

Zig-zag stiching appeared, I think, only when machine sewing was introduced. In the hey-day of sailing ships the seams were double-folded into each other and fixed with two rows of straight stiches.

[Gregory]

With regard to tinting, it seems to me that mixing food coloring in water would be a good idea.

 

I have noticed how hard it is to get food coloring out of clothes, so I think it should weather well..

Edited July 2, 2018 by Gregory

[druxey]

For better integrity of the sail, while I use a similar technique as Wefalck (April 20), my doublings of the seams are added with opaque acrylic paint ruled on using an old-fashioned draftsman's bow pen. Grommets are also of acrylic paint.

[wefalck]

That is actually a very good idea, druxey ! Never though of this. At some stage in the - hopefully - not too distant future I want to show on a 1:160 scale model some sails being dried and hanging limp over stays etc. The method of putting together sails from several panels, as I used before, makes the sail too stiff for this. So painting-on the seams like this may be the solution.

 

A variant of this could also be to mask of the panels and spray against the mask, which should leave a sharp edge. One would need to do this from both sides.

[dvm27]

Nice videos, Kevin. You find some real winners on the internet.

[druxey]

You might find masking off so much of the sail to be a pain, Wefalck.

[Kevin Kenny]

I find videos so instructive. Thats why i have been making my own videos and posting them to help others get to solutions quickly.

[thibaultron]

Kevin - Thanks for the great videos!

 

Druxey - Great Idea for making the seams!

[Bob Cleek]

I've put sails on a couple of fore and aft rigged models. The result was tolerable in one instance and not in the other. The more successful of the two was at a rather large scale, .75" to 1'. Aside from the difficulty of depicting the shape of the sail, which can only be approximately represented by a flat piece of cloth, as all sails have "shape" or "draft" sewn into them with panels shaped with curved edges much the same as planks do, it's impossible to achieve realism in small scales.

 

I've done restoration work on one antique (well, maybe 90 year old) model with furled sails and, fortunately, they were apparently of linen and survived, but were extremely compromised structurally and required care in handling. I've seen many models with sails which had cotton sail material which deteriorated and with particular rapidity when uncased.  The problem is that replacement of decayed sails is often impossible without considerable deconstruction that further damages the historical integrity of an old model.  Certainly, "decorative" models and dioramas might demand sails, but the general curatorial consensus is that omitting sails on "museum quality" models is the preferred option. While few kit manufacturers outside the US notwithstanding their advertising even come close to "museum quality" in their materials, it seems the better practice to build with the intention that the model will last at least 100 years without requiring restoration in the ordinary course. The NRG has promulgated standards to that end and I'd encourage serious modelers to do their best to meet them. (http://www.shipmodel.com/pdfs/ship-model-classification-guidelines-1980.pdf)  The USN NAVSEASYSCOM, which commissions builders' models for the Navy's ship model collection, even requires inspection of the models they commission at various points in the construction process to ensure strict compliance with their standards, which are similar to, but a bit more stringent than the NRG's standards.

 

It's hard to believe anyone who is sufficiently detail-oriented to undertake building a serious ship model would not follow these standards if they knew of them.  Save some exceptions, one of the primary reasons to omit sails, beyond the fact that they often obstruct the view of the rigging detail, is that unless they are of fine quality linen material, they probably aren't going to last all that long. Anything one does for fun is subject to their taste alone, of course, but I think ship modeling is one of those things that most agree is best done as well as one can.

[Cathead]

Bob, your points are well taken, but it does really come down to modeler's preference. The vast majority of us aren't building for museums and public display. I'm not sure what you mean by a "serious" modeler, but plenty of folks willing to devote years to a detailed and reasonably accurate model still aren't doing so for the museum curator crowd, but for family/friend home display. To non-sailors or non-enthusiasts, a ship with sails often looks far more interesting and recognizable, as the web of rigging goes right over their head anyway but the sails are more easily comprehended. Speaking personally as a moderately skilled amateur, I'm happy to learn about what's considered "perfect", but may still not choose to apply that standard to even a "serious" model if my goal is to please a less picky audience and work to a standard that makes me happy rather than drives me crazy.

 

 

[Roger Pellett]

Despite all the romance associated with clipper ships, I never cease to be impressed and amazed by these great four masted “wind machines.”  No less amazing is that they could actually be sailed by relatively small crews.

 

Roger

[Bob Cleek]

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 5:23 AM, JerseyCity Frankie said:

Not so. I direct your attention to the MAGNIFICENT model collection at Munich’s Deutsches Museum, which I think of as “the German Smithsonian”. EVERY ONE of their sailing vessel models is depicted with superb sails. http://www.deutsches-museum.de/en/exhibitions/transport/marine-navigation/sailing-ships/

Holy Smoke! I'd sure like to see a tutorial by whoever made those sails.

[RafaelP]

Those sails are beautiful!  Looking at the closeup image above, the fabric appears to be linen.

[Cathead]

In fairness, new sails existed too, or they couldn't have become old sails. And there's nothing wrong with displaying a model as if it were just outfitted with a new set if you're trying to show the ship in an ideal state, as most models tend to do anyway. I mean, even in your photo, that jib looks a lot newer than the rest.

[Jaager]

I here remind of a material that was suggested here:

Liberon Van Dyck Crystals Wood Dye

It is made from walnut husks, so is just as "natural" as tea

and according to the materials data sheet - pH 10 - so is not

acidic.  The concentration in water determines the shade.

I figure it as a rigging and sail color agent.

Amazon used to sell it - but Google should find a merchant now.

[reklein]

Frankie,Those sails are wonderful, and I agree that it would be cool to see the technique for making them, not that I would have the TALENT for doing them.

    Also Natural does not equate to wether something is acidic or not. You'd want a substance to be naturally non-acidic. A person might be able to render stains non-acidic by treating them with a basic substance.

[RafaelP]

Traditional Walnut ink/dye was used for centuries for writing, however it is not an archival material.  It will eat away paper and cloth over time.  I do not know about that specific Liberion wood dye though.

[JesseLee]

I have been told that if you use baking soda with your tea washes it neutralizes the acids. Anyone know if this is true? I have used this process on a model or two.

 

Jesse

[chuckd]

For smaller models i have made sails of coffee filters they dont tear take glue well and can be hung in intended shape and painted as they are too translucent otherwise.gluing in boltropes made of small wire helps to keep sails in proper shape when installed

[wefalck]

You mean paper filters ? They are rather thick, arent't they ?

[chuckd]

The round ones for drip coffee makers they flatten out considerably when wet or painted

[Kevin Kenny]

I would have to see them to understand how realistic they are. 

[rwiederrich]

As some know...I use plain copy paper to make sails and they work pretty well, and look very convincing too..

[Kevin Kenny]

They look great. I like how they hold the shape.

[the learner]

Could you do the same thing with silkspan? Those do look pretty fantastic!

[the learner]

And that would be a go for paper modelers