Sergal Cutty Sark

[bonedoctor51]

Hi everyone.  I've been lurking for some time while struggling with the Sergal kit of the Cutty Sark.

 

As a way of introduction, I am an experienced model builder, and I wrote for years for Model Ship Builder Magazine.  I've had in storage a 1980's vintage kit of the Cutty Sark that I started to build about 5 years ago.  I'm a semi-retired orthopaedic surgeon, and even with my current work schedule I seldom get to spend more than a few hours a week on the project.  I have been using Longridge's book as a guide, as the number of errors on the plans make it impossible to build as shown. I have attached three pictures showing my current status.  I apologize for the inverted appearance.

 

Several questions:

 

Is a  fittings set still available?  Many of mine are corroded and broken.  I have been scratch building where possible.  I called Model Expo, where I got the kit originally, and they were not helpful, as they do not carry it any longer.

 

Any suggestions on building realistic deck houses?  I don't like the brass pieces and painting them did not work.  I have tried several solutions without success.

 

Finally, does anyone have a comprehensive rigging diagram showing all pinrail and fiferail attachments?  The plans as supplied are grossly incorrect, but I've had a hard time drawing up new ones on my own.  For instance, Longridge shows for and aft fife rails at the foremast, and they are different.  The plans as supplied shows a fore rail only with not nearly enough belaying points.

 

Any help would be appreciated.   Thanks   Lou Halikman

 

 

 

 

[mtaylor]

Hi Lou,

 

I wish I could answer your questions, but I can't so I'll just say: "Welcome to MSW".

[Jim Lad]

Hello Lou, and a warm welcome to MSW.

 

I can't help you with the first question, but as for realistic deckhouses, can I suggest that you build them up as basic boxes out of wood and simply add the panelling detail as required.

 

If you're working with Longridge's 'Cutty Sark', you should be OK for rigging detail, but if you're unfamiliar with rigging of the period, you might like to try and locate a copy of Harold Underhill's 'Masting and Rigging' - the 'bible' on the subject of late 19th century rigging.

 

There a quite a lot of contemporary photos of the Cutty Sark on the web (while she was still in service), so your plans can always be supplemented by images of the real thing.

 

Finally, by far the best way to get help is to open a build log.

 

John

[markjay]

Hi Lou, welcome the site.
You say you are working on the Sergal/Mantua kit. I worked with Ages of Sail (who advertise on this site) to get some replacement and upgraded parts for my Cutty Sark. They were able to help me out and it was easy working with them. You might have to wait a bit if the parts are not available as Sergal is a smaller outfit hence a slower turn around.

Welcome and good luck.
Mark

[tlevine]

When I built this model in the late 80's I was also frustrated with the quality of fittings and the method of constructing the deck houses.  I ended up using the brass sheets in the kit and have never forgiven myself.  I had only built two other kits, so scratch building was beyond my skill set at the time.  I used Longridge extensively throughout the build. Basically, I threw out the Sergal instructions because of their inaccuracies. Although tiny and hard to read, the rigging diagram in the book correlates well with contemporary photos.  

 

I recognize your name from MSB.  Remind me, please, when you were published and what you built.  Good luck and please start a build log.

[bonedoctor51]

Thanks everybody.  I made boxes to use for scratch building the deck houses.  That looks like the only way to go.

 

I have Underhills book, and I have built other similar but not as extensive ships.  I was just hoping for a "shortcut" comprehensive diagram to avoid making mistakes.  As I'm sure you are aware, the plans supplied with the Sergal kit are incorrect, misleading, and in many instances just plain wrong. I guess I can draw up a pin placement diagram to use as a guide.

 

I wrote for MSB for many years.  My articles were about the Dallas, a revenue cutter, a north seas trawler, and a Baltimore clipper.  The last one was a kitbash and is quite close to the Pride of Baltimore, which sunk a few years ago.  I had photographed the ship in harbor (I live in Monkton, about 30 miles north of Baltimore) and rebuilt the ship accordingly.  I started a series on Mississippi river boats, but the model I was using was too inaccurate, and I had gotten too far to turn back, so the project was abandoned.  I still have the incomplete model -- the only model that I never finished -- and am planning to rebuild it as a cotton hauler.

 

More recently I built a Bermuda sloop from plans supplied by Rob Napier as it appeared in NRG a number of years ago.  I don't have  a photo to share, but it is fair to say that it is my pride and joy.

 

I love ship modelling, and am teaching three of my grandchildren the art and craft of modelling.  I want the Cutty  Sark to be the best model ever, and I'm just having a harder time than I anticipated.

 

Thanks all.  I'll post updates from time to time.   Feel free to private email me at any time.  bonedoctor51@hotmail.com.  Lou Halikman

[NenadM]

Warm wellcome to CS fleet on MSW

 

Waiting for your progress !

[bonedoctor51]

Thanks Nenad!  This project turned out to be much harder than anticipated.

 

Back in the 80's I built the Revel model of the Cutty  -- the 3' one -- with many wooden parts added to enhance appearance.  It was a walk in the park compared to this.    Lou

[bonedoctor51]

Progress at one additional year.  Longridge's book is absolutely essential, as the details on the plans are frankly incorrect.  Hope to finish the deck this winter and begin masting and rigging next fall.  Lou

[bonedoctor51]

Progress as f May 1, 2017.  Ready for masts and rigging.  Lou

[Sailor1234567890]

She truly is a beautiful craft. If only she could be put back to sea.

[mojofilter]

Hi Lou - Just reviewing your work - really nice.  Wondering if you planked the deck before doing the bulwarks? (I'm at that point)  Also, will you do the little ladders up to the fore deck?

Can't wait to see progress on masting and rigging.   ... And pictures!

 

- Tim

[bonedoctor51]

I planked the deck with 3 mm x 0.6 walnut all the way to the bulwarks then added the waterways.  Quite a job bending them.  The deck is planked by the rule of 5 's, not the rule of 2's as shown on the plans.  The staggered fives are more realistic.  Actually I would have had to use 2 mm walnut to be on scale, but one place where you can cheat a little on scale is on the deck.  Otherwise it looks too busy.  So 3 mm was the choice.

 

I did the deck first then the waterways to bring the height of the waterways up to the correct level for the scuppers.  Putting the waterways down first made them too low.

 

For the bulwarks I used the brass sheets on the outside and planked the interior.  Looks better that way.  Be very careful about the deadeyes and belaying pin locations.  They are backwards on the supplied plans.  Use Underhill and Longridge as guides.  The deadeye internal chain plates are way over scale.  I used 0.81 brass wire painted white for these and the bulwark stanchions.  Same problem.  I personally cannot tolerate overscale parts.

 

I'll add the two forward ladders later.  I don't like the ones with the kit -- too big.  I'll address that problem later.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact me by private email.  Lou

[Chuck D]

Can anyone send me a copy of the plans? I bought a kit that did not have any!! Thank you in advance!

 

charlie

[bonedoctor51]

Update as of December 31, 2019.  Masts and standing rigging complete.  Ready to do spars and running rigging.

 

Question.  Regarding the jackstays.  Longridge gives the dimensions of the jackstays as 3/4" diameter iron rods.  At a 1:78 scale for the Mantua/Sergal model this translates to .25 mm.  Impossibly small. What diameter did anyone else use?  I'm looking at .4 or .8 mm.  Thanks  Lou Halikman

[Sea Hoss]

looks fantastic!

[bonedoctor51]

Current status of the project.  I've been working on this model for about 10 years.  I think I can finish in about another year or so.

Started life as a Mantua-Sergal kit 1980's vintage, extensively modified according to Longridge and Underhill.

Thanks for looking.  Lou

[mojofilter]

Looks fantastic Lou!

I've forgotten, do you plan to set sails?  Looks like you're getting pretty close to running rigging.

Keep up the great work.

 

- Tim

[bonedoctor51]

I have the sail set.  Will make the decision when all of the yards are done.

 

I like the sails as they enable better modelling of the running rigging.   Lou

[BobG]

23 hours ago, bonedoctor51 said:

I've been working on this model for about 10 years.

Well you've certainly be committed to this build and, from the looks of it, it's worth it. She's beautiful!

[bonedoctor51]

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement.  Only about another year or so to go!

With the Covid crisis I've been working mostly from home and have had more time to build.  Lou

[bonedoctor51]

Current status of the project.  Only a few more spars to go.  I have a nicely made sail set that I will use of the fit is good.

[bonedoctor51]

Current status.  About 10 years in, probably finish in another year.

[popeye the sailor]

you've built an impressive model here    if I had seen this model being built in the beginning stages,  I might have been able to give you some insight as to what I did.  I have the Sergal Thermopylae,  and I have found the kit equally challenging and a struggle to build.  the instructions don't help much,  and even some of the pre cut parts needed some degree of scratch building.  there is a form of photo etch that can be purchased for this model,  as well as the Thermopylae.......I even bought a separate set of the wood detail sheet.  by now,  you've seen that the rigging illustration supplied in the kit is incorrect.  

    seeing that you've chosen to follow other text and direction....good decision    the scale of the model is another detriment......adding all the rigging and the extra detail can easily crowd the model.   the Thermopylae is @ 1:124 scale....to me,  this is way too small,  especially for three or more masted ships.  I've always considered the Revell 1:96 scale models,  the better suited models to work with {if only they could get rid of those three segmented decks  } .   whatever the obstacles,  you've built a very stunning model....how long it's taken you is a testament to your determination.

[bonedoctor51]

Thank you!  I did not know that an improved fitting set was available.  This model is almost completely scratch built from Longridge.  The rigging is still another challenge.  The sails were purchased but fit has been a problem.  One more year at the most!  

 

Next project :  Billing boat model of the Esmeralda

[tlevine]

I started building this model in the mid-80's.  Like yourself, after the hull was built, I decided that the plans were problematic so the rest was scratch built.  It was never finished because I realized how much I hate rigging, especially at this scale.  I hope you finish yours.  Why Esmeralda?

[bonedoctor51]

I was planning to build a five masted lumber schooner from scratch.  I've had the plans in a mailing tube in my workshop for years.  Then I saw the sale on this model.  It was close enough to the look I was after to give it a try.  i have no experience with Billing Boats kits but I hope it is better than the Italian kits.  I did scratch build a Bermuda sloop a number of years ago from plans by Rob Napier published in the NRJ.  It came out great so I thought I was up to the task.  But this approach for this model seemed easier.  I saw one under construction in the Forums and it looked great.   

[HakeZou]

Hi BoneDoctor, beautiful work on this Cutty Sark!

 

I have a quick question for you that might help with my current build, Sergal's Sciabecco Francese. Is your sail set the one sold by Mantua? If so, can you share some detail on how you went from the sails as they arrived to the sails as installed? I picked up the comparable set for my ship and am pretty confused by the instructions that came with them. Thanks in advance if you're able to offer any insight. I look forward to following the rest of your build! 

[bonedoctor51]

Yes it is the Mantua set.  It was not easy to figure out which sail was which.  I finally lined them up in decreasing order to figure it out.  But some of the sail sizes are incorrect.  Too big or too small.  So I had to modify my yard positions to make them fit.  Not easy to alter the chain halyards once in place.

 

It too me about a year of searching to find the Mantua sail set.  I guess overall it was worth the money.  It comes with a rigging diagram that is a bit different from some of the others that I have seen.  I tied them to the jackstays with individual knots, not running knots.  Used very thin tan thread.  sewed rings in the the lower corners for rigging points.  I am not happy with the way the studding yard arms worked out.  

 

I don't like the bare pole model, as it simply has too much empty space.  I am happy with the way it is coming out.  I am not going to use all of the sails.  I'm not using the spencer sail, but i will use the spanker.  I haven't decided on the staysails.  The set came with 3 jibs, but some pictures of the Cutty show 4 jibs and there are rigging points for 4 jibs.  Oh well.

 

Send some pictures!  Lou

[HakeZou]

I agree about the bare pole model looking empty. So far my kits have been smaller fishing vessels in 1:20 or 1:25 scale, so I think it's made a lot of sense to have the sails on. My current xebec is in 1:49 scale, but still only has three sails, so is still a much simpler proposition than the Cutty Sark!

 

I'm still a ways off from rigging the sails, but I had pulled them out of the package a while back just to inspect them. With only three sails, they're much simpler to sort. Once I start working on the yards, I'll check the sail sizes...hopefully they're more accurate in my case, but we'll see.

 

Two detailed questions for you, since your sails turned out so well: when you sewed in the rings, did you also cut a hole in the cloth? That is, are the lines running through the ring only, or through the ring and the sail cloth? And second, I assume that your sails also came with a ridiculously excessive amount of edging material (see the photo below)...did you just trim that off at the edge of the sail cloth, or did you use it in some way? 

 

 

Thanks for entertaining these very novice questions!

 

Hake