HMS Tiger 1747 by Siggi52 - 1:48 - 60 gun ship from NMM plans

[albert]

Hi Siggi your work is fantastic.

[Siggi52]

Thank you Albert

[Siggi52]

Hello,

we where all busy over the weekend and the shipwright is pleased. Some small spots he found, where the painter must rework his painting. But at least most of the parts are ready. Even the windows for the cabins. Tomorrow the blacksmith should come to installed the door handles. 

[Keith Black]

 So nice. 

[Siggi52]

Hello and thank you Keith,

the bulwark is ready and fast    The workers got a free afternoon, I think they are now in on of the pubs around here.

And that is what you will see later from it. The next things to do are the cabins.

 

[scrubbyj427]

That paneling looks amazing Siggi! Wonderful work!

[Chuck]

Outstanding!!!

[Keith Black]

2 hours ago, Siggi52 said:

The workers got a free afternoon, I think they are now in on of the pubs around here

 Siggi, they did such a wonderful job they deserve half a day off. Hopefully they don't spend all their wages in the pubs, their wives are gonna need money for the butcher. 

[Siggi52]

Hallo and many thanks,

today the carpenters where fit Keith and started with the cabins. 😉

[dvm27]

So your panels are not built up, correct? Just lines penciled in and carved to shape. Extraordinary work Siggi.

[Siggi52]

Thank you and you are right Greg. 

[Siggi52]

Hello,

the carpenters fished mostly the cabins and the painter painted them. They will get now some free days till Eastern, but the shipwright has to think about the galley. Some bricks are ordered, but there are some more questions to solve. 

 

If you want to find the dust, make a picture 😄 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Siggi52

[Auger]

Ha, ha-ha… love this guy!

[Auger]

When you (sorry, they) insert needles like this, do you (they) drill pilot holes first? 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Auger

[Siggi52]

Hello Auger,

yes there are holes drilled to find the exact position again.

[Jaager]

17 hours ago, Auger said:

When you (sorry, they) insert needles like this, do you (they) drill pilot holes first? 

To enforce what Siggi answered and be emphatic in world of interest where there is very little to be emphatic about:  Pins are not nails. They seldom tolerate being used as nails.  Holes should always be drilled first.  If you wish to remove them later, the hole diameter needs to be at least the same as the pin diameter. To save on frustration,  the hole should be a done using a #drill bit that is a notch or two larger.   I can think of no place, no job, with a ship model where a nail would be appropriate. Nowhere - where it would not be destructive.   Most of the wood species that are scale appropriate have grain that is too tight and too dense to tolerate much compression.  The force gets passed along as a split between the fibers.

 

Superb work there Siggi!

[Siggi52]

Hello and many thanks for the likes,

but I have a serious problem. The 12 pdr 9 ft cannons are too long! If they are secured inside, nobody could pass without being an artist. And this is a very often used way to the head.

The Armstrong design has 3 lengths for 12 pdr's, 7,5, 8,5 and 9 feet. In the next picture I used a 7,5 ft cannon

and here the 8,5 ft cannon. From the aspect of space I would prefer the 7,5 ft cannon

Also for the cabins, the 9 ft cannon would be an obstacle. 

So my question: did anywhere know if they had these cannons at that time? At least the 7.5 ft 12 pdr? Many thanks in advance.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Siggi52

[druxey]

Sometimes cannon were lashed parallel to and against the side when not in use. Perhaps this was the case here?

[Siggi52]

Thank you Druxey,

but even then it is tight there. There are two cannons in front of the cabins and some ships have between them at the port side a second cabin. I chose the 9 ft cannons, because Falconer listed them for iron guns used in the sea service, according to the mensurations in 1753. And he has for every caliber only one length! 

[shipman]

When still in commission but not at war, depending on the size of the ship, a substantial compliment of ordinance was frequently disassembled and stored in the hold. Thereby helping stability and providing less cramped accommodation.

When not at war a full crew wasn't required; stores were less, so it makes sense to 'open the deck'.

Once hostilities began it became a mad scramble to put the ship in a state to actually fight.

Notoriously, captains struggled to adequately man the ship.

 

No idea where I read that, but did.

 

[Seahawk1313]

I agree with Shipman.  They were practical men.  If something was in the way and not needed it would most likely be stored.   A side question,  do your door hinged work?  Your work is beyond words, I love watching your ship come together, wonderful!- Hal

[Jaager]

I think that when they cleared for action, there were no cabins.   The walls were taken down and stored below.  So it was an either/or situation.

[Hubac's Historian]

27 minutes ago, Jaager said:

I think that when they cleared for action, there were no cabins.   The walls were taken down and stored below.  So it was an either/or situation.

This is an interesting point.

[mtaylor]

3 hours ago, Jaager said:

I think that when they cleared for action, there were no cabins.   The walls were taken down and stored below.  So it was an either/or situation.

On some, it is claimed that they were hinged at the top and just had the lower end roped up to keep it out of the way. 

[Jaager]

Looking at Siggi's  wall and doors under the forecastle,  I can see that the galley enclosure might be fixed, but I wonder if the left and right bulkheads would be taken down.

The boys supplying powder and shot as well as the officer who was the gun director might find a doorway too limiting - traffic jam and a sound barrier.  It would also make peachy keen wood sharpnel.   

 

 

Addon:   Who knew it was spelled sharpnel?    Based on the way it was pronounced I thought it was schrapenull - a German word - not the name of the English inventor.  First time I ever had reason to write it.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Jaager

[Siggi52]

Hello and many thanks for your thoughts,

 

yes I know that when ships where not in use, they stored the cannons at shore. Not in the hold. And yes, when in action the cabins where dismantled and brought into the hold or in the boots, who where brought outside. But not the galley and the bulwark. At this time the bulwarks where permanent. It was a „bulwark“ in times ships where entered. I remember a picture, I think in the Kriegstein collection, with a cannon port in the doors.

 

And yes, they where practical men, shorter cannons is the simplest solution. But did they have them, and how long where they? I know, it would be a lot of extra work 🙁 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Siggi52

[shipman]

When a ship was not in use it was called being 'in ordinary', where all fixtures and fittings, including masts and rigging were removed and stored at a shore establishment to avoid deterioration.

 

I was referring to a ship being in use but in peace time.

[Siggi52]

Hello,

Shipman, that where at least guard ships.

Usually a ship of the line fitted in peacetime with part of her armament and rig and a nucleus crew, capable of acting as a floating battery for the defence of a port she was at, and also capable of being rapidly fitted out in an emergency before the ships in „Ordinary“ (reserve) became available. David Lyon

And I don't think, that they had the rest of there cannons in the hold.

 

I read the passage for ship guns in Muller's Treatise of Artillery fron 1768 (page 53-60) and it showed to me, that there where no shorter guns up to this time. There should come shorter guns with the next establishment. 😐 

That meant to me I could use the guns I have build and because I show them run out, all others should not bother me.

Here the passages that say that at least

[Beef Wellington]

Siggi - the comments made above by others are all appropriate.  The state of readiness of a ship could change in a very short time period, either bringing up cannons and makign up carriages stored in the hold, or moving a cannon lashed to the side to bring to bear in the gunport.  The same for breaking down bulkheads.  The "state of readiness" would be consistent with the threat situation....which is still true for warships today.  There are many examples of models not necessarily reflecting a snapshot in time of contemporary practice, so none of that should get in your way.

[Siggi52]

Jason,

could you please tell me where they stored cannons in the hold and where I could find that written down. Not just I know that, or I have read it somewhere.

In most stores in the hold where barrels stored. There was not somewhere an empty space to lay down some cannons. And they need heavy gear to get them out there. Not just one man at each end and away with them. The wight of the cannons you see above in my last post. Did you think that could be done within 15-30 minutes. That was a larger task. 

 

And yes, I know that they lashed cannons to the side. I build that already for the Dragon.

For the Tiger it would also work, with the help of some extra rings. To the right you see the door to the roundhouse. So, you wouldn't have many friends when you blockade it. 

And permanent bulwarks are permanent. See also the drawing for the 1745 establishment in my post #875

Edited April 10, 2023 by Siggi52