HMS Prince by pirozzi - Amati - 1:64 - Original 1978 Kit by Vince P.

[pirozzi]

As you know, I just completed the Royal William. The Prince was a ship that was remodeled into the Royal William in the very early 1700's. Amati had a nice kit about 40 years ago of the Prince, but discontinued it long ago. I searched for a source for many years and finally found a fellow through this forum, who had the kit but never started it. I bought it from him a few years ago. Since the Royal William was a remodel of the Prince, to do a "Before and After Display" will be cool. The kit cost $600 back almost 40 years ago, so it is definitely a high end kit. As with the Royal William, I intend to greatly enhance the detail and rig her with full sails. There are a few modern kits available of the Prince, but none of them compare to this old kit, and the scale is big enough to go along side the Euromodel Royal William.

The kit came in a nice wood case instead of a cardboard box. Back then there was no such thing a laser cut parts, so looking at the kit, everything must be hand cut by saw and file. There are 34 bulkheads which is about double of modern kits and each and every one will have to be hand cut. I will definitely get my money's worth out of the my band and scroll saws. 😛 Virtually nothing is pre-cut. The amount of decorations appears to be quite extensive as well.

 

I am really going to enjoy this project. 

 

The first photo is from a 1980 catalog showing this kit listed.

 

Vince P. 

[ccoyle]

Will be interesting to see this "old school" classic coming to life alongside some of the newer wonder-kits.

[paulsutcliffe]

Wow, now that's a box😁

Regards

Paul 

[Erik A]

8 minutes ago, paulsutcliffe said:

Wow, now that's a box😁

Regards

Paul 

ditto. and the amount of paper plans is cool. way better than working off a tablet with PDF plans. not that my eyes would cope  lol. going to watch this with interest. looks amazing

[James H]

This looks great, and a wooden box to go with it 😲

[Jaager]

Pardon the broken record on this, 

The logo does not look familiar, so this may not be the kit.

There was a kit for HMS Prince where the historical keel length was used for length of the whole model keel.

At the time of HMS Prince the given keel length was "touch" - which is a bit shorter.  It made the open main deck a bit crowded and the overall hull a bit squat looking.

 

A repair would be easy = patch in a additional length at the join and duplicate the dead flat mould.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Jaager

[dvm27]

Wow, that's old school. Cutting out all those bulkheads to spec and getting them to align will be fun! The bulkhead and keel wood looks nice. Is it birch ply? Any warping over the years?

[pirozzi]

I noticed a slight warp at the bow upright on the false keel. Not enough to worry about. It can be corrected during construction of the hull. Everything else looks good. I am surprised.

 

Vince

[pirozzi]

Since there are so many bulkheads that have to be squared and each cut out by hand, I will need all the help I can get. I saw this Professional Building Slip advertised by a foreign company names Hobbyzone. I ordered one and built it. It is very sturdy and complex but is designed to facilitate constructing the framework of the hull and squaring it properly. The hull can be left in the slip once the framework is complete and the hull can be rotated in place for planking. I am going to give it a try.

All of the parts were laser cut and the construction consisted of sub-assemblies that had to be glued together. The instructions consisted of just photos in sequence. The photos are pretty small and I had to use a magnifier because it is possible to glue some of the parts in incorrect positions. Carefully examining the photos made it easy to construct without mistakes.

 

Vince P. 

[marktiedens]

Wow - that is quite the kit!  My Constructo Prince is listed as 1/61 scale & 35 inches long  - seems a little short for that scale.  Does yours have a length listed?

 

Mark

[pirozzi]

23 minutes ago, marktiedens said:

Wow - that is quite the kit!  My Constructo Prince is listed as 1/61 scale & 35 inches long  - seems a little short for that scale.  Does yours have a length listed?

 

Mark

Hi Mark,

They don't list a length but the false keel alone is 37 inches, so I would imagine with the bowsprit added and such it will go over 40 inches.

 

Vince

[pirozzi]

5 hours ago, dvm27 said:

Wow, that's old school. Cutting out all those bulkheads to spec and getting them to align will be fun! The bulkhead and keel wood looks nice. Is it birch ply? Any warping over the years?

I looks like birch plywood. Can't say for sure but it is strong stuff.

 

[Henke]

This will be interesting Vince. I will take a seat and watch with interest. Good luck and let's hope it will be a happy ship.

 

Regards

 

Henrik

[pirozzi]

So, I completely re-arranged my workshop to prepare for building the Prince. I had my friend who is a carpenter, build cabinets to place my ship cases on and get them off the floor. Everything came out perfect and looks great.   

 

Now on to building the Prince. First up will be to cut out the false keel and all of the 34 bulkheads.

 

Vince P.

 

[pirozzi]

Started construction. False keel is placed on the slip and first of 34 bulkheads in place. On the first bulkhead I cut out all of the marked spaces because some of the decorative panels might need to be placed there. Since there are no actual decks below the main deck, it is really not necessary to cut out all of the spaces. I may decide not to do that which will save a large amount of cutting and routing.

 

Vince P. 

[pirozzi]

Working on the framing. I decided to make all of the little cutouts in each of the bulkheads even though they are not really needed for the build. It will reduce the weight of the finished model. With all of the metal decorations, this model will be quite heavy. Making all of these cutouts will take considerable time.

I made a little milling machine for making the cutouts. I mounted my Dremel Tool in the stand and am using a milling bit. It makes the cuts clean and accurate. My Dremel Tool died after the first 8 bulkheads though. I have had it for about 8 years and used it heavily while working on my models. I just bought the same model as I like the feel of it and it does a good job.

 

Vince P. 

 

[Kikatinalong]

Beautiful kit, will watch with interest  and hopefully learn plenty along the way as I'm very new to this wonderful hobby. And I commend u on what u have on display.

all the best with the build.

[pirozzi]

I am still working on the bulkheads. I have about 6 more to go. I found out the reason this kit has so many bulkheads which is about double of most kits. Since this kit will not have the lower decks installed even as false decks. The lower deck gun ports are located to butt up against each pair of bulkheads. This make locating them much easier and you don't have the problem of gunports locating right in the middle of a bulkhead. This problem was frequent in building the Royal William and resulted in closing those ports in order to not have to cut away some bulkheads.

I am also placing some stabilizing boards between each pair of bulkheads both port and starboard to make the frame more rigid. It is so long and heavy that it flexes way too much. Once the upper decks are placed and the planking is done, that will also help.

Vince P. 

[pirozzi]

The framing is completed. The Birch plywood is pretty tough stuff. In making all of those cutouts I dulled 6 router blades and wore out a couple of collets.

This building slip I am using is fantastic. The last photo shows that the whole hull can be rotated to facilitate planking and all of the hull construction without removing it from the slip. It appears that the entire model can be constructed while in the slip.

I am contemplating on what is next. I think that the lower deck gun blocks must be created and inserted after marking the location of the gun ports. Since this model does not have actual lower decks, it would be impossible to place these blocks once the hull was planked. I am only guessing here, but I think this is the way to go.

Vince P. 

[pirozzi]

All of the gunports are located and the dummy gun blocks are placed. Locating the ports was fairly easy since they all butt up against a bulkhead. I added planks that follow the deck lines to mount the blocks to. I also noticed that if I want to keep most of the ports open with protruding gun barrels, there are not enough guns supplied. They figure on only having about half of them open. I do have a good supply of gun barrels that are similar in my stash. I will use those.

Next up is to bevel the fore and aft bulkhead ends and begin the first layer of hull planking. A hull this size that also has a complex curved stern and a bluff bow will take a considerable time to plank.

Vince P.

[pirozzi]

This little plank bender I bought years ago from MicroMark is one of the best tools ever. You can bend wood up to 3mm thick. The wood can be dry and cold. You just adjust the rollers to accommodate the thickness and the amount of arc you need. Just crank the handle. I have planked an entire ship with this.

Vince P.

[Kikatinalong]

I'm enjoying the build, and looking forward to the next stage. I think I might have a go at building one of those plank benders, looks simple and u have given it top marks, a lot easier than water and heat, plus I have the advantage of a brother in law owning a gear cutting business.

[pirozzi]

Started the first layer of planking. It is very slow going. Because of the large number of bulkheads, many have to be adjusted along the way to keep the flow of the planking as smooth as possible. There are still ripples that show and those will have to be corrected after the entire hull is planked and before the second layer is applied.

 

Vince P. 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by pirozzi
Wrong photos

[Sailor1234567890]

You are lucky to have this kit. Congratulations on your good fortune. It will sure be an interesting build. 

[Hubac's Historian]

I remember this kit well from the ModelExpo catalogs, in the 80’s.  I always liked the model and thought Amati did a decent job of representing the ship.  You make an interesting point about the number of bulkheads; that should make for a more fair hull.

 

One thing you might consider - because I think it can he done convincingly without having to alter anything else - is to modify the profile of the cutwater; Amati represents a more curved shape, but in reality, English ships of the period would have had a cutwater that was a straight line from the turn of the figurehead to the footing of the stem.  It will look great, either way, but it is something to think about.

 

You are off to a great start, and I will gladly follow along!

[Hubac's Historian]

Something more like this:

[pirozzi]

You have a valid point. The Royal William I built has a straighter prow. I will look into this.  

 

Thanks, Vince 

[Captainhash]

Gonna be a really excellent ship when done man I wish I had this kit instead of construction one

[pirozzi]

15 hours ago, Captainhash said:

Gonna be a really excellent ship when done man I wish I had this kit instead of construction one

Captain, 

A kit is only a platform.  You can take it as far as you want.  I have seen that Constructo kit completed by a builder who bashed it considerably. It was outstanding. 

Vince 

[pirozzi]

Hi Mates,

Long time no see. Now that I am pretty much confined to the house because of this Corona virus epidemic, I have been putting more time into my build. I have finally finished the starboard side of the first planking layer. It was a monstrous job. Besides being a very large hull, the enormous amount of bulkheads requires constant adjustments of just about every bulkhead to get a fairly even and smooth run of the strakes. Even so, there are a few rough spots that will have to be smoothed out when placing the second finish layer of planking. I used little nails throughout to hold the planks until the glue dried and then pulled them out. For the second layer I will not have to use them because there will be a solid layer underneath to glue them to. I used PVA glue for most of the planking, except where the curves in the hull required holding. In those places I used medium thick CA glue and fast drying spray. I did not cut off the ends of the planks that hang over because I might need some extra when placing the decorations and strips to the bow and stern. Although you can't them, I did mark the locations of the gunports with little holes for cutting them out later.

Hopefully I will post more quickly now.

 

Vince P. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by pirozzi