Battle of Waterloo Attack on La Haye Sainte Farm by Old Collingwood - 1/56 (28mm)

[Roger Pellett]

OC,

 

There have been thousands of books published about the ACW and many movies.  In my opinion, by far the most accurate movie is Gettysburg.  If you have access to it, it is well worth your time to watch it. ,The music score is great too.

 

Roger

[Old Collingwood]

4 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

OC,

 

There have been thousands of books published about the ACW and many movies.  In my opinion, by far the most accurate movie is Gettysburg.  If you have access to it, it is well worth your time to watch it. ,The music score is great too.

 

Roger

Thank you kindly Roger.

 

OC.

[Canute]

The movie came from a book by Michael Shaara titled "Killer Angels". I think the movie held fairly well to the book and history,

 

That's the interesting thing about that war, so many facets and what-ifs.  And as a Yankee living in the South, it's amazing to me the various names used versus calling it the Civil War. War of Northern Aggression, War of Southern Arrogance or the Late Unpleasantness. I like that last when talking to some of our genteel Southern belles. The subject has many nuances.

[mtaylor]

The Late Unpleasantness is one of my favorites also, Ken. 

 

The movie Gettysburg was a good one on the topic.   Not only filmed at Gettysburg, but they used re-enactors.  The re-enactors were pretty good about keeping things sorted as far as what they did and had access to which also kept the directors, etc. on the historical track.

[CDW]

My great-great grandfather was part of Capt JJ Dickison's 2nd Florida Cavalry, H Company. A small confederate group with a storied combat history in the ACW. I heard a lot about it from my elders growing up. 

 

"Richard P. Weinert, a historian in the Office of the Chief of Military History, U.S. Army wrote “Dickison was one of the ablest guerrilla commanders produced not only during the Civil War, but probably in all military history of America.”

Edited June 11, 2021 by CDW

[CDW]

This is my great great grandfather and g-g-grandmother not too many years after the ACW ended. He died in 1892 at the age of 60. He was a cowboy long before the war started and a natural fit in the cavalry.

 

[Egilman]

The most accurate Documentary of course is Ken Burns Civil War.... Great accurate writing, period music done very well, and actual Civil War historians led the telling of the story....

Even it didn't even cover a tenth of the realities....

 

There are a lot of strange things one learns when researching history.... The Virginia Historical Society holds in it's collection a Mexican officers cavalry spur..... The story of it's travels is documented by many many pieces of correspondence and personal papers of historical import.... It is known as the Huger Spur and only one remains....

 

It is a Spanish/Cuban design spur probably manufactured sometime in the early 1840's.....

The Huger spur was crafted of steel, probably in the 1840s, with a gold-inlaid band intricately engraved with trailing vines. The multi-spoked rowel, or wheel, is rendered as a flower, with the petals forming the points on the spur. Although its origin is unknown, it was most likely made in Mexico or Cuba, where its first owner, Mexican general Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, was living in exile after the Texican War and before the Mexican-American War..... (some say he was wearing them at the Alamo and the Battle of San Jacinto, but that is unproven and improbable given verified documentation)

 

The first documented account of the Huger spur dates from September 1847 after Santa Anna's defeat at the hands of General Winfield Scott In Mexico City.... Santa Anna surrendered his sword to Scott, who, in a gesture of respect, promptly returned it.... To show his appreciation, Santa Anna removed his spurs and presented them to Scott.... Soon thereafter, Scott gave them to his chief of ordnance and artillery, Captain Benjamin Huger, (grandson of  Maj. Gen. Thomas Pinckney) for bravery at Vera Cruz, Molino del Rey, and Chapultepec.... (mexico city)

 

Captain Huger gave the spurs to his son  Frank Huger on his graduation from West Point in 1860..... The following year both Huger's resigned their commissions in the United States Army to serve in the Virginia militia and eventually the Confederate States Army..... The elder Huger commanded state forces in Norfolk and eventually gained promotion to major general..... Frank Huger fought with the Norfolk Light Artillery, known as Huger's Battery, and quickly moved up in the ranks after service in the battles of the Seven Days, Sulphur Springs, Harpers Ferry, and Fredericksburg..... In 1863 he was promoted to major and fought at Chancellorsville and Gettysburg..... By the end of that year, he was a colonel in command of his own battalion..... He was captured at Saylor's Creek in April 1865 by Brigadier General George Armstrong Custer, a friend and classmate from West Point..... Knowing that the war was over for him, the Virginian lent his prized spurs to the flamboyant Union Cavalry officer.....

 

Some months after the war, Custer wrote to Huger asking permission to keep the spurs a little longer..... Huger agreed, and Custer took the spurs with him when he went out west to fight in the Indian campaigns from which he never returned..... One of the spurs was reportedly recovered from Custer's body (doubtful, official reports say it was recovered on the battlefield,  not his body) after the Battle of Little Big Horn and given to his widow, Elizabeth, who eventually returned the spur to Frank Huger..... 

 

It remained in the possession of the Huger family down thru the years until sometime in the late 2000's the society acquired it.... 

 

Here's a pic of one of the spurs on one of Custer's boots taken prior to going west and the Little Bighorn....

The Mexican War, worn by Genralissimo de Santa Anna, through many of the major actions of the ACW by colonel Huber, and thru most of the pre Little Bighorn Indian wars by Colonel George Armstrong Custer....

 

If only it could talk.....

 

That is the most enticing about history, following all the various paths and connections....

 

General Huger is interesting, why, cause his actions at the Battle of Seven Pines gives insight into Longstreet's personality, Longstreet abrogated command to himself when Huber was the senior officer present and should have been in command, (neither had orders from Gen Johnston at the time as to who was to take command, eventually Johnston ordered Longstreet to take command) Longstreet then ordered Huber to hold his division and await orders, and then complained to General Johnston that the reason Longstreet had failed was because of Huber's slowness to approach the union lines with his division..... Longstreet was a backstabber and a very unreliable officer who carries an undeserved reputation as a great confederate general and leader of men... General Lee didn't see this until after Gettysburg and shipped him and his Corps of Alabamians out west to fight General Sherman..... (which he didn't do to well at either)

 

The stories and complexities of the personalities involved are more interesting that the actual battles.....

 

Sorry bout this again Brother.... (slinking away from the rail switchyard handles)..... I just can't seem to help myself.....

 

[Canute]

So many paths to follow, so many rabbit holes....

[Edwardkenway]

2 hours ago, Canute said:

So many paths to follow, so many rabbit holes....

And all very engrossing and moreish 😉

6 hours ago, Egilman said:

Ken Burns Civil War

I've been watching that on Netflix, it's very very good!!

 

It's interesting to see the differences between the ACW and the Crimean War with only 10 years or so between them and how the European powers were still using Napoleonic tactics in large set piece battles, and also trench warfare around Sebastopol! ( a taste of what was to come 60 odd years later🤔)

 

Perhaps  you could do a "Late Unpleasantness" dio after !😊😇

I'll get my coat🙃😅

 

[Canute]

The ACW got into trench warfare around Richmond and Petersburg, Virginia. Richmond was the Confedaracy's capital and Petersburg was a big railroad hub. Protect at all costs places. The Union forces moved too slow flanking the Rebels around the area and weren't very aggressive attacking around Petersburg. The quickly thrown up Rebel breastworks turned into trenches. It was a very long year from the start of the Overland campaign in May 1864 to Richmond falling in early April 1865. I'm currently reading Gordon Rhea's first book on the campaign, The Wilderness.

[mtaylor]

The Battle of the Crater at Petersburg seems to be a prelude to the WWI's trench warfare and the mining (or attempted mining) under enemy trenches.  A very nasty affair that went very badly.

[Old Collingwood]

Hi all,   Well I have started  on the Flag Barer  - assembled  and primed.

 

OC.

[Roger Pellett]

There was also the siege at Vicksburg that ended with the Union Army capturing the city on the same day that the Battle of Gettysburg ended.

 

Roger

[Old Collingwood]

Time for some history  about the  the Eagle Flag carrying  infantryman  - during the attacks on LHS  the french came under  severe and accurate fire from the 2nd KGL  and also the 95th  in the sandpit  - one of their primary aims was to take down the  command of the  regiment  and even the flag barer's,   there was just the one Eagle per regiment, and I understand the  1st reg, 55th  ligne  was carried by an Officer, he was  shot  and the Eagle was very quickly picked up by one of the ranks infantry and  carried forward  during their attack on the Farm, I understans a higher ranking officer soon claimed the Eagle back  but was soon  departed from it when the British Heavy  Cavalry attacked  and claimed it,   it was never taken back  its one of Two that was  saved from the Battle.

 

I am displaying this Eagle barer as one of the infantry who rescued it before it was handed over to a senior.

 

OC.

[mtaylor]

The one carrying the flag was often a target as well as those around him (like commanding officers and staff).   I hope I'm reading the right that this is an English bearer?  

 

I like your thinking on which flag he'll carry. 

[Old Collingwood]

8 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

The one carrying the flag was often a target as well as those around him (like commanding officers and staff).   I hope I'm reading the right that this is an English bearer?  

 

I like your thinking on which flag he'll carry. 

This is the French one Mark  from the Ist Corps of  Jean-Baptiste, Comte d'Erlon, he was  head over  -  I Corps: 33 battalions/11 squadrons/46 guns.

 

OC.

 

[mtaylor]

1 hour ago, Old Collingwood said:

This is the French one Mark  from the Ist Corps of  Jean-Baptiste, Comte d'Erlon, he was  head over  -  I Corps: 33 battalions/11 squadrons/46 guns.

 

OC.

 

Thanks OC.  I somehow got turned around and though this was Brit unit.   

[Old Collingwood]

25 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

 

Thanks OC.  I somehow got turned around and though this was Brit unit.   

No worries mate, sometimes my rattling on when I get caught in the typing moment can come across a bit confusing  - I blame my keyboard lol.

 

OC.

[mtaylor]

14 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

No worries mate, sometimes my rattling on when I get caught in the typing moment can come across a bit confusing  - I blame my keyboard lol.

 

OC.

I'm not blaming you. Sometimes my old brain just doesn't keep up with everything and everyone else.

[Old Collingwood]

15 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

I'm blaming you. Sometimes my old brain just doesn't keep up with everything and everyone else.

😁   You do have  some rounds to do Mark  - like a groundsman trying to keep a place tidy.

 

OC.

[Canute]

Napoleon must have been channeling some early Roman. The Romans marked units with eagles, so the Napoleonic units carried eagles, too. They were sacred emblems for these units, so losing one was disastrous, due to lost honor. It was a rallying point for a unit, since all comms were either visual (flags) or audio(horns/trumpets). An eagle/nation or unit flag was vital for keeping unit adhesion. Very important in the days of massed muskets at under 100 yards for effectiveness. The various British Rifle units were the beginnings of dispersed firepower, but they still relied on whistles for communications.

[Edwardkenway]

The French Eagles were very sacred to the Regiments as it was said that Napoleon himself kissed each Eagle before presenting it to the battalion. 

The British army were still using whistles in the 1914-1918 war.

At the beginning British commanders still expected troops to go over the top in an orderly fashion and advance towards the enemy at a walk😶😬

Whoever said "lions led by donkeys" wasn't too far from the truth!

[Roger Pellett]

Some of the dispersed fire tactics of the British Army can be traced back to experience gained in North America during the French and Indian was, the Seven Years War in the UK and Europe.

 

After Braddock’s defeat at the Monongahela, several officers began to consider tactics that would work better in a wilderness environment.  One of these was Lord Howe the older brother of the two Howes who fought in the American Revolution.  He was sadly killed at the battle at Fort Ticonderoga.  The most famous of the new units formed as a result of this was Rogers Rangers made famous by Spencer Tracy in the movie Northwest Passage.  While the Rangers were useful as scouts and long range raiders they were not intended to fight alongside troops in formal battles.

 

A less well known unit that did pioneer dispersed fire tactics in a battlefield environment was the 60th American, later the 60th Royal American.  This was recruited from American Volunteers and Commanded by a Swiss Immigrant named Henry Bouquet.  If my memory is correct they later became part of the Rifle Regiment.

 

Roger

 

 

[mtaylor]

13 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

😁   You do have  some rounds to do Mark  - like a groundsman trying to keep a place tidy.

 

OC.

I meant to say I wasn't blaming you.   I have fat fingers lately.

[Old Collingwood]

28 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

I meant to say I wasn't blaming you.   I have fat fingers lately.

No worries  at all mark.

 

OC.

[Old Collingwood]

Evening all , I thought I better crack on with my Flag Barer  - I have decided to  make him a Voltiguer infantryman,   normal procedure  is to start working on the face and hands features  followed by the Shako  then the collar.

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

hey there OC.......just caught up to your antics!   very nice work!  the drummer fella came out great      really top notch work!

[allanyed]

Sorry folks but this one has always irked me. (I know I am a pain in the neck)    A copse is a small group of trees so a "copse of trees" is literally a small group of trees of trees, thus redundant.   And yes, I still say a copse of trees at times because most people don't know what a copse is.   Again, sorry for the grammar lesson and taking this thread even further off track.    And..... if anyone has an interest in the US Civil War and has not visited Gettysburg, it should be on their bucket list.     

Allan 

[Old Collingwood]

2 hours ago, popeye the sailor said:

hey there OC.......just caught up to your antics!   very nice work!  the drummer fella came out great      really top notch work!

Thank you so much Denis.

 

OC.

[Old Collingwood]

Evening all,   Flag Barer is nearly complete - just needs his backpack and flag,  and possibly a few more  brushed coats of flat  as its still being a we bit akward  flatting down even after about Four coats.

 

OC.