PT 109 by popeye the sailor - Dumas

[Jim Lad]

Nice looking construction there, Popeye!

 

John

[alross2]

Hopefully, the front torpedo tube slides are not glued on.  They're backwards.  What's supposed to be the training gearbox is supposed to be inboard.

[popeye the sailor]

Thanks all!   I have plenty of masks Ken......I even have one at the spray booth  

 

thanks John  

 

they are just laid out on the deck for  fitting the tube chocks in the slots.....not cemented in place     I was reading about the 109.......Kennedy lashed a 37 mm cannon to the deck......he wanted more fire power.  it was lashed in place of the life raft,  as most though they were just in the way,  they were relocated to other places on the deck or structures.  it would be neat to add that bit of detail    PT boats serving in the Pacific theater were olive drab in many different shades...at least from what I've read........and seen.  the question of whether or not they were planked on deck,  I'm still trying to get a definite on.......I'm thinking that they were planked at the bow, and plywood along the mid ship,  returning to planking at the stern.  I have a few pictures to show......but the admiral is adamant.......I need a shower {I got off work an hour or so ago}.  I told her it was a new collogue...'ode de bearing grease,  but she didn't buy it    I'll return shortly  

[alross2]

This information is from John Lambert and my ALLIED COASTAL FORCES OF WWII, Volume 2, and was taken directly from ELCO drawings, of which I have hundreds.  PT103-196, 314-367, 372-383 had planked decks.  PT486-563, 565 on had plywood decks.

Edited April 27, 2021 by alross2

[popeye the sailor]

was it fully planked?   pictures I've seen looked like it was planking up to the helm,  plywood at the mid ship around the structures......I'm guessing about the stern.  was it laid fore to aft,  or angled?

 

I thought it kinda silly not to show the gun turrets without at least part of the goodies attached.  it's too bad those center deck parts are so warped.....it makes the whole thing look so disheveled.   since there really isn't much to go on,  I just guessed with the framework for the engine cover.

there's a bit more to it....when this was dry enough,  I added more framing......some pictures of how it would look in place

the port side is trimmed to allow the gun turret,  but I wasn't keen on the gap between the cover and the day cabin.

the shield that branches off on the starboard side of the turret crosses over this gap and divides it 

side view of the starboard shield......you can just make out where the cover roof ends.  looking at this diagram,  you'd almost get the sense that this area of the deck frame is cut out and all this is assembled as an assembly.  it then can be removed to access the R/C stuff.  at this point,  this is what you get.

basically,  I simply take some of the same thickness plywood {what the roof is made of},  and fill the gap in.

cut out the continuance of the circle cut out,  and you get this

when its all cemented on the deck,  some quarter round stripping will pretty it up.  I started to make the ammo boxes......there are a couple more structure bits that fill it out.

[CDW]

Beautiful work Denis. Love it!

[Kevin]

that looks so very nice,  you have a very busy workshop at present 

[Canute]

Coming along just great, Denis. Busy boat, you have.

[alross2]

Yes, full length longitudinal planking .

[Old Collingwood]

Looking really good Denis  - was you not tempted to  bash the internals?

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

I would have,  but a lot of the below deck won't be seen.  if I was into cut aways........this boat would be a god candidate    you must follow John Drain's work Al........I have a couple of his links bookmarked    his laser cut deck link explains a lot about the deck......the pattern,  dead lights,  and bits & bobbles.  straight fore and aft it is   

 

I did a little bit more this morning......added a bit more to the ammo lockers.

wasn't keen on the way they were shown,  so I changed a couple things.  

still need to add the supports at the bottom.  I started to work on the access hatch,  but I got diverted to the smoke generator.  I don't have one of those disc sanders.......the end was rounded off by hand.......and it took a while.  the metal parts supplied in the kit are not that good....had to do some shaping to the base ring of the nozzle and file down the locator pin,  cleaning up the flash and stuff.  I made up the chocks that it sits on and set it aside to dry,  so I could do more.

 

still more to add....not too crazy about the other end.....there is some chipping.  to be honest,  I'm not a big fan of the solid pieces of wood ,  supplied in most kits.  if the part made from it is supposed to be hollow...or has a window,  it's very hard to portray a window that you can look through. the only recourse,  is to use a dark cello,  like window tinting material {which I have some},  or resort to using other bits of cello.....like the discs that can be found in old computer floppy discs { I also have some still....my earlier attempt at making windows}.  the access hatch is shaped by lopping off two areas from the block of wood.  I did it with my scroll saw without it wrenching it from my fingers......took some sanding too

 

I guess I'll be shaping the life raft too.......this will be interesting  

the chipping problem was quickly remedied...from the collection of metal odds and ends,  I found a bit of brass tube that will cover the sin.  the straps are on it now as well.

 

once painted,  no one will ever know.  the grab bag of metal bits I bought from Micro Mark came through for me again..........     I should go out and check the front brakes in the car,  but I really don't feel like it.  I have an inspection on Friday.  we were planning to buy another car,  but at the last minute,  the admiral voted it down.......perhaps by summer's end....maybe.   

 

another bit of news........I made a breakthrough with the budget director..........I ordered a wooden deck for a [hopefully near} future project.  this will be my first one,  and I ordered it from BNA Models.  we'll see how long it takes to get it.   PE railings are next.......wish me luck  

 

thanks all for the kind comments and likes!

[Egilman]

 

17 hours ago, popeye the sailor said:

was it fully planked?

Full length, Full width, Fore & Aft planking on the main deck brother, Mahogany I believe but some of them used Spruce and some used a bonded Fir-Mahogany product from what I remember.... (they were different thicknesses across the beam, thinner in the middle as well if I remember correctly......

 

----------------

Ah, I should have read farther, Al seems to have answered this already..... (with actual datum, good deal)

 

And the second pic Al posted shows it was two layer laminated with airplane canvas glued in-between the layers... 

 

Looks great brother, the hatches and the rest of the wooden portions of the furniture were spruce plywood....

 

On the Gun, yes, Kennedy actually mounted a de-wheeled M-3 37mm gun to the bow on some timbers he had lashed to the foredeck.... They never got to use it though, the next patrol they were run down.....

Edited April 28, 2021 by Egilman

[Jim Lad]

You're really making progress with this on, mate.  She's going to look first class when all those 'bits and bobs' finally get fitted.

 

John

[Canute]

Nice save with the banding of the smoke generator.

[Old Collingwood]

Really nice work Denis,    all the  additions and your  work ethics  are really showing.

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

thanks all........there's more than meets the eye with these boats.  hello Egilman.......glad to see you  .........I do have mahogany planking.......got a good bundle of it when I got my second Nordkap kit.  a while back,  I received a equally good bundle of .5X5mm blonde thin strip from Mark.....that is what I'll be using instead.  sandwiching canvas between layers is another bit of detail that will never be seen,  so I won't be doing that........paint will also hide the sin.

     I'm saving the mahogany for a project that won't involve paint......that's a wood that deserves to be seen.  the plan is,  to border off the sheer and plank her completely....since my earlier assumption has been debunked { I got that from models I've seen}.   I also though that there was a shortcoming with the kit,  since the sheer wasn't riddled with punch outs for the hatches and deadlights.........easy to overlook and cure.   the next update will show the start of the deck layout.   the hull paint really needs to get done so I can do more on deck.......weather has been unsettled of late...hindrance  

      as for the 37 mm gun,  heck,  I've seen models where they left the tires on........adds a bit more detail,  if you ask me    I wonder what scale would be suitable........IF I was to add it?      .......do I want to lay some paint! 

     thanks again all,  for the kind comments and the likes.......hope to have more to show later.   gotta go look at some brakes.......

[Egilman]

8 hours ago, popeye the sailor said:

as for the 37 mm gun,  heck,  I've seen models where they left the tires on........adds a bit more detail,  if you ask me    I wonder what scale would be suitable........IF I was to add it? 

Simple math brother, Dumas says it is 33" long and 1/30th scale..... At an actual size of 960"and a scale size of 33" that makes it 1/29th scale, 1/32nd scale wouldn't look too out of place....

 

The M3 37mm is roughly 13ft long with trails, in 1/29th scale that is roughly five and three eights inch long, in 1/32nd scale it is four and seven eights inches long, 1/35th scale it is roughly four and a half inches long....

 

Barrel length is roughly 7 feet (6'11") x12 = 84" / 29 = 2.9" long; in 1/32 scale 84 / 32 = 2.625" long; in 1/35th scale 2.4" long....

 

1/32nd would pass in a pinch, 1/35th is way too short to any one who understands, it would be obviously underscale....

 

If there isn't a 3D printer that has a scalable M3 then the only option is grab a 1/35 model (Bronco) and scratch one up at 15% larger....

 

Interesting but very doable challenge.....

Edited April 29, 2021 by Egilman

[Egilman]

Just in case you want to brother....I'm sending you two scaled drawings of the M-3 37mm..... In the correct 1/29th scale... And an image that shows how it was mounted....

 

 

 

In case you decide to do it, these have the proper images my friend...

M3 37mm Gun 1-29 scale 1.tif M3 37mm Gun 1-29 scale 2-1.tif

Edited April 30, 2021 by Egilman

[popeye the sailor]

thank you!.....perhaps I can scratch build one.   I have enough brass tubing in different diameters.   I also have square brass tubing too......

 

on another note..........after replacing the front brakes and a pair of front stabilizer links,  the car passed inspection  

[popeye the sailor]

I suppose I'd better get caught up with the progress.......I've made quite a bit since the last update    I've been wanting to paint the hull,  but the weather still doesn't want to cooperate.......I may be forced to paint it in the spare room   so what I will do is flesh out the basic deck layout and plank it.  I did get scared though......Mark had sent me a huge bundle of .5 X 880 mm blonde basswood planking...of course,  that was a while ago.  I have used some since then.....I found that I have only a quarter of what I used to have.   this sent me scurrying through the other bundles of wood......luckily,  I scared up a bundle of .5 X 550 mm thin strip!  RELIEF!!!  { More about this a bit later}

 

carrying on with some more sub assemblies.........I began to flesh out the torpedo tubes.  the first thing was to mark out where the bands are to go,  as well as the chocks.

the nose and the tail parts were added.  my plan for the deck payout,  is to add the torpedo mounts and border around the deck sheer.   1 mm strip was use to border the sheer,  broken by the mounts.  measurements for this are few,  so I went with the big diagrams.

I also used some of the measurements from the torpedoes for the swivel mount placement.  if you can see,  there is a hole drilled into the center of the disc.......a pin will be inserted in the center of the rear chocks to fit them.

 

the life raft was another sub assembly.........it is to be made of wood,  and the 'blank' has to be assembled.   the parts were cut from a 1/4 square piece of pine,  supplied in the kit.  cemented together,  you get this.......

there are some hood vents that I'm not too crazy about.......they don't even look the part.   most likely,  I will scratch build some.

this was done on Friday of last week........

[popeye the sailor]

yesterday,  I took the day off.  I made more progress.......the first being the sanding of the life raft.   to hasten it up a bit,  I used the Dremel to get the shape,  and then sanded the rest by hand.  what I ended up with was this.....

in the kit,  they supply a small sheet of screen....enough to make three life rafts.   cutting a piece to fit....then rounding off the corners.......this was the result.

 

more to come   

[Canute]

Raft looks good, Denis.

[lmagna]

Nice work Denis.

[popeye the sailor]

thanks Ken    of course,  with these sub assemblies,  there is still more to add.  the raft was one of the things I did yesterday.  the placement of the rest of the torpedo mounts and the border was completed.  the border is only 1 mm thick......I have a bunch of other planking,  but they are 1.8 mm {the overage {1.5} is the allowance for sanding}.  in most kits,  they say the planking is 1.5 mm.......but it's actually 1.8 if you mic it out.  I found this out when I used left over planking to fill in shortcomings I've had with other models.  some are right on the money.........some are not.  it's not a big deal......I've found this little 'fib' to be useful in different situations     I will do butt shifts,  since I find it hard to believe they handled planking in these lengths.  the Revell kit I've been studying doesn't show butt shifts,  but I will say.......that the kit is very close to what the actual boat looked like. 

 

 

at the front of the center filler panels,  the nose of the helm structure was traced out for the planking.  tabs were added so the panels will sit flush when cemented in place.

the line you see on the deck sheer,  is where the corners of the structure are....some 5 - 7 mm from the line of the opening.  I also started to play around with the .50 cals,  while sub assemblies were drying.

fitting the brackets in the turret mounts

there's quite a bit of detail to these guns.......  I started to give the panels some thought........the only opening I actually need is at the stern.  so the panels were cut where the engine cover ends off,  and I can cement the rest of it in place.  pretty soon,  I will need to paint the hull,  before I can put anything on the deck.

 

the configuration of the helm floor was traced out,  I have something in mind for it,  as well as the two shields.  I left more than enough room to set up the rudders.

  as I mentioned on Mike's log,  I had a rattle can of Deep Forest Green......a Rustoleum 'camouflage' color.   it's a non reflective paint,  specially designed for camouflage.   to relieve the itch to get some paint on her,  I decided to spray the helm.....but the can won't spray.  I think it is dead   I'll figure out a way to tell if it's still energized.......if it isn't,  I'll drain it somehow....I'm not wasting paint    another color I bought is an Army Green......not a bad color.....gives the sense of fading and will help highlighting the detail.

 

 

 

 

[popeye the sailor]

thanks Lou  

[Jim Lad]

Great progress, mate.

 

John

[Jim Lad]

great progress, mate!

 

John

[Old Collingwood]

Excellent work Denis  - gonna be a Good One.

 

OC.

[jep1210]

Great update, coming along nicely.

[popeye the sailor]

thanks all  .........a little progress yesterday.  I hope to have more soon  

 

 

ohhh..........and I'm sanding the hull too 

Edited May 6, 2021 by popeye the sailor