New To Building Ships Help and advice needed

[Richard O]

Hello. I'm new to this so please excuse me if I'm not posting properly.

 

I'm looking for advice on my first build. I'm looking for a wood ship in around 36" long, give or take. Larger would be too difficult to display I would think.

 

I'm 57 years old, semi retired as a building inspector  with a lot of experience building highly detailed radio controlled ww2 aircraft ( large scale ) from scratch, highly detailed plastic model airplanes etc. I'm very familiar with working with wood and balsa and small parts. I have patience and good knowledge of materials and working with them. I've worked with silk and dope ( for those of us here old enough to know what that is ), and detailed spray painting 

 

I always wanted to build a war ship. One example I found was the Montanes Model Boat Kit – Occre (15000). It's a tad large though I find. I don't know very much about ships or the history of them. I'm building it for the pleasure of detailing it and the challenge. Less for historic reasons however I want a ship that's a war ship in wood with plenty of cannons and masts. 

 

I'm looking for advice on the best kit that would range between say $400.00 and $800.00 or more. I don't mind, in fact I prefer to add additional details to make it even more detailed. 

 

The look of the large sails and war canons I found very cool and looks like a lot of fun to build.

 

Can anyone suggest a high end kit for me?

[Keithbrad80]

Welcome to MSW Richard, 

 

It sounds to me like you have quite a bit of experience in working with models! I will say that building wooden ship models and working with wood is different, you will find the different techniques can take awhile to perfect and because of this I would be wary about starting with a 400 dollar kit. 

 

I would recommend checking out Vanguard Models website, they have several kits which I think would fit your needs! For instance the Royal Yacht, Duchess of Kingston (link at the bottom) is a great looking model that advertises towards people with modeling experience, I would recommend any Vanguard model for someone’s first build. 

 

For now I would say the best thing you could do is take a while to read through some logs to get a hang of the process and hopefully find a kit that fits your needs!

 

Royal Yacht, Duchess of Kingston

https://vanguardmodels.co.uk/product/duchess-of-kingston/

 

Bradley  

Edited January 8, 2021 by Keithbrad80

[Jim Lad]

Hello Richard, and a warm welcome to the forum from 'Down Under'.

 

John

[Jaager]

It might help if you visited this link:

For Beginners -- A Cautionary Tale

 

Kurt Van Dahm reviewed the following two kits as a relatively painless way to begin this business of building wooden ship models in the current issue of the Journal:

New Model Shipways Shipwrights Series!
Model Shipways Lowell Grand Banks Dory Model Wooden Model Ship Kit 1:24 Scale
Your Price: $29.99

Model Shipways Norwegian Sailing Pram 1:12 Scale
Your Price: $49.99

 

All of this is quite a bit different from building a plastic kit model.

 

Balsa is a species of wood that is of little or no use in what we do.

 

A multi deck ship of the line involves highest technological abilities of the civilization that built it.  It also was a significant outlay from a treasury.  The investment in time and skill to build a model of one is also of a similar degree when compared to the smaller and more numerous vessels of its time. 

I suspect that kits of these vessels defeat most of the beginners who attempt them .   It takes more hard won skill and experience than is at first imagined.

 

 

 

[ccoyle]

6 hours ago, Richard O said:

The look of the large sails and war canons I found very cool and looks like a lot of fun to build.

 

Just be forewarned that lots of masts and cannon also involves a lot of tedious and repetitive tasks, which is not everyone's cup of tea. Say, for example, you build a frigate with 24 guns on its upper deck. That's 24 barrels and 24 carriages to assemble. If you rig the guns, then that's 6 blocks per gun (144 total) plus 3 ropes per gun to attach and coil down on deck (72 total). A basic carriage usually has 12 wooden parts and roughly 13 metal parts, 25 per gun, meaning 600 total for 24 guns. All together, that's 840 parts just for the deck guns alone.

 

Still undaunted? Then I will second the advice about Vanguard Models.

 

Take care!

[Roberts Orca]

Hello Richard and welcome. 

You sound very similar to me. I too have an extensive RC background. Love fine details. I love the look of an old sailing ship with all the cannons and massive rigging. You're obviously not afraid of the work, it's patience that's needed. There are many kits available that a "beginner" could try, but I'm of the stance that you will learn much from taking on something that truly challenges you. This could take years, not months to complete. It's your marathon. Make it what you want it to be. I'm only limited if I refuse to ask questions or take advise from experienced modelers. Having said all that, I'm building my very first wooden ship model from Corel.  It's 1:98 scale. I personally prefer a bigger model. 

This kit is intended for experts. While I will never classify myself as a ship building expert, I do see myself as an expert in effort to learn. There's more to doing one of these than one can wrap their head around. The ONLY thing I have to know how to do is step #1. Then step 2 etc. 

With all that in mind, I would encourage you to go after what truly gets your heart going. Dream a dream. There are many good people here who will generously give of their experiences. My model was about $350. I'm facing challenges every turn, but I'm starting to understand that THAT is exactly what I'm supposed to go through. If it wasn't for the challenges, where would the true rewards of completion come from? I wish you the best in your journey. Feel free to stop by and say hello in my build log. 

[amateur]

Vanguard is top, but you could also consider one of the models Chris Watton designed before he started off as a one-man company. Those are models of larger ship (don't know whether that fits your cupboard): amati's victory models range. Something like pegasus or fly would also be a nice model

 

Jan

[glbarlow]

I’ll join the others in highly recommending Vanguard Models. https://vanguardmodels.co.uk/  
 

I’ve built a number of models designed by Chris Watten when he worked for other companies, he now has his own company freed from restrains of commercial manufactures that economize with mass produced fittings.  Chris’ designs are the very latest in creative modeling, his materials outclass all the others, and most importantly his detailed instructions and plans have no peer in the world of kits. Check the website to see, you can download instructions to get a better feel. I’d recommend HM Flirt given your description. Chris is also an active ontributor on this site and their are multiple build logs (Flirt and Speedy are similar enough) to follow for additional help
 

You really need look no further than @chris watton

[GuntherMT]

Vanguard is getting a lot of recommendations, but I don't think (I could be wrong) that anything is in the large size range being looked for here (36").

 

Take a look at the Winchelsea that Chuck (Syren Ship Model Company) designed and is making.  It's a larger scale and builds into a pretty good sized model.  It's a work in progress but far enough along that it might be difficult to catch up and run out of instructions and things!

[Ryland Craze]

Hi Richard and welcome to Model Ship World.  Based on your experience, you should have no problem building a wooden ship model.  You have been given good advice by the members in their posts above.  I look forward to seeing what you decide to build, but take your time making your decision as the build time could run into many years.  I would also check out the build logs on whatever ship model you are considering.

[Ron Burns]

My real first ship model is Chuck's HMS Winchelsea. It slides right into the size you are looking for and the support is second to none. The materials are first rate if you choose to pick up the parts for each of the published 'chapters'. The other thing that really got my attention were the many build logs of the other members here along with Chuck's as he continues to develop the Winnie. As it stands, to me, this is one of the most beautiful frigate models I've seen. I come from modeling in card for years and slid right into this. You will have no problems coming from RC.

[Richard O]

To everyone that has been so kind in helping me out. Thank you sooooo much to all you of. I'm always a bit taken back by all the help folks are willing to provide. This will be my first build and I'm pumped. At 57 I'm looking forward to taking the time to built it properly. My last 69" fully scaled Spitfire ( and can of course actually fly ) took 5 years.  I'll keep researching my options but I do know I want a challenge as I've built just about everything else ( plastic models, large steam train layouts in HO with scratch built buildings and cars, large RC true to scale ww2 aircraft, minor wood furniture, ) but not a ship. It looks challenging for sure but that's the whole point. I'm not threatened by the amount of work or the patience and skills needed.

 

I respect everyone's advise including the warnings. Thanks you. 

 

I just didn't want to spend 6 months to a year investigating it all. Hence the reason I asked the questions. 

 

Thanks again to everyone. A warm welcome indeed. 

 

Now let's have fun!

[Richard O]

Boys and girls! Bought my first ship kit based on my research and all the advice given here. Thanks again to all those that chimed in to help. Much appreciated indeed. Vanguard The Royal Yacht Duchess of Kingston 1778 was the winner. . Looking forward to starting her soon once it arrives.

[Keithbrad80]

Dont forget to start a build log once you get started, in the mean time I highly recommend you read up on planking techniques. There are several books available on line but there are also several free tutorials here on the website, written by some of the best ship modelers out there. You will see that planking and other aspects of the build are more challenging than they look, but I’m sure you will do fine with your experience! Im looking forward to following your build!

 

Bradley 

[mtaylor]

Welcome to MSW, Richard.  You had good advice and selected a good starter.  The advice about a build log can't be emphasized enough.  Have some fun, now.

[Richard O]

I already started looking at planking on you tube and several internet sites. The methods I'm learning makes sense due to the curved surfaces. I'll be taking my time like I normally do with such things for sure. Isn't too complex just time consuming and one needs to follow a procedure to do it properly/accurately. It can easily go south if not done properly. I'm looking forward to the challenge. I think I'm going to get addicted to this just like I do with other hobbies Lol. I love the challenge and the fine details. It'll look AMAZING in my house well displayed proudly I'm sure. 

 

The help here has been great. Good people with good advice. 

 

When I get started I'll post for sure. 

 

BTW Chris from Vanguard Models was very helpful. 

[ERS Rich]

Hello Richard,
 

Perhaps a different perspective.....  

 

Congrats on your decision to become a serious woodworker!  You will be working wood in ways beyond a carpenter and approaching, if not exceeding, a cabinet maker (an extinct profession).  
 

Being a building inspector you may know the following, please forgive me if you do.

 

Sharp tools are essential.  Makes woodworking a joy.
 

Grab a set of chisels and a small block plane from your favorite home improvement store, they won’t be sharp, and choose the way you will sharpen them in your shop....wet stones? Tormek?

 

Respectfully, other suggestions are take a basic tool/woodworking course...if you can....

 

And start with a small project, such as a cutter with several cannon....

 

Perfect the techniques you will use in your shop, woodworking and most important finishing, on a small project, and you will be ready for the “big one”.

 

Grab a copy of “Ship Modeling Simplified” by Mastini.

 

All the best with it and I’m always around if you need a hand.

 

-Rich
 

 

 

[Richard O]

Boys and girls! Bought my first ship kit based on my research and all the advice given here. Thanks again to all those that chimed in to help. Much appreciated indeed. Vanguard The Royal Yacht Duchess of Kingston 1778 was the winner. . Looking forward to starting her soon once it arrives.

[allanyed]

Belated welcome Richard.   Take a look at the planking tutorials and other tutorials as well as the build logs here at MSW.  There is a wealth of information on proven techniques and everything from glue to tools to study.    As a relative beginner in this type of modeling, you may spend more time in class than in the lab for the first build, but it is well worth it.

 

Allan

[Richard O]

Rich,

 

Great suggestions indeed. Thank you.

 

I already bought the book and I'm reviewing it as we speak.

 

I've built a couple of large RC ww2 true to scale ( true scale warbirds are very rare to find scratch built because true to scale are very difficult to fly for many reasons and to ground handle. Most so called scale birds are not true to scale warbirds ), large HO scale steam train layouts  and some furniture. I think I have all the tools I need but if I need more, like a plank bender I'll get what I need for sure.

 

The RC stuff I built involves working with hardwood, softwoods and balsa. Imperfections are apparent in the silk/dope finish and flying characteristics , however I've managed to create an almost prefect finish.  I THINK I have the skills I need but then again I've been learning techniques since I was a little boy and will continue to learn. Looking forward to the challenge and making new friends here.

 

I so agree with your comment on lost art. Framing is all being done now with skill saws on construction sites. Kitchens and cabinets for example are all pre made in a factory. Try to find a contractor that knows how to scratch build stairs. Good luck. I've seen contractors go from skilled carpenters to pre fab installers. Sad really. Unfortunately skills that we old timers appreciate are gone forever other than a few hobbies like this one. Even RC airplanes have moved to kits that can be assembled in a few hours and flown. Good luck asking the owner to modify it or repair it. Most RC airplane hobbyists don't know why airplanes fly or how to build one. It's really very sad in my opinion.  Perhaps the reason I'm passionate about my hobbies that actually require SKILL?????

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Richard O]

Sorry I meant to say chain saws, not skill saws. Chain saws are the norm now making framing inaccurate but meets code.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Glenn-UK]

You have made a very wise choice with the Duchess Of Kingston. There are some great build logs to help you along the way.

[Ryland Craze]

Richard, You did your homework well in selecting the Duchess of Kingston.  I am looking forward to following your progress as I know your model will be well built.