Greek Bireme by ObviousNewbie - FINISHED - Amati - 1/35 - A lot of Firsts

[Cathead]

Is there a chance it'd work better to draw the eye on with something like colored pencil or fine pen? That inherently gives the painted-on look without any decal film, and also lets you work naturally with the planking and its seams, just like on a full-size vessel. Might be worth testing with some scrap wood. For example, on my recent Viking ship project, I found that colored pencils created a really nice coloration effect on the shields, far better than paint.

[AVBiker]

I drew the eye on thin, white paper in pencil and then painted with Acrylcolor and glued it on.

 

Greetings Hubert

 

[Nautical 1]

Man, what an awesome display of fine creativity and craftsmanship! Well done!!! 

John

[ObviousNewbie]

Hi all, thnx for checking in. After a couple of weeks holiday the shipyard is open again 🙂 . Been reading through your comments while soaking up some mediterranean sun, and that got my mind working on testing all sorts of things.

 

Decided to ease into the build gently with the oars. Wasn't too happy with what the "instructions" suggested, so freewheeled a bit:

 

 

Left is the version from the instructions, middle and right I added some 1x4mm limewood sanded into shape.  Going for option 3!

 

An important part of the bow was still left to be done: the ram. The one provided by Amati felt a bit lacking, so decided to go look for some real world examples. Found out that, although cargo ships from that age are found regularly, hardly any military vessel is ever recovered. Apparently that's because these ships did not sink that easily, because when hit, the ballast (ie the rowers), abandoned ship, lightening the load and in most cases keeping the ship afloat to be captured by the opposite navy (found that out in a Youtube lecture from the person responsible for the Olympias reconstruction some years ago). Nevertheless, a ram was recovered and is sitting in an Israeli museum:

 

 

Important to note: scholars believe this to be a trireme ram, so fitted on a vessel much bigger and heavier than the bireme. Decided to try out some stuff with paper before committing:

 

 

Above is version one, a bit tiny compared to the reference material I gathered, so tried again:

 

 

Sizewise seems to be better, going to try now and add some curves to the sides, maybe extend the top a bit and round off the business end.

 

Also thought out under the Greek sun: the eye. Thanks to @Louie da fly@Thukydides@Cathead and @AVBiker for you input, in the end the reasoning I had was that decals might be too perfect to convey what I wanted to do, so tried out the coloured pencil approach (commandeered some pencils from the Rear Admiral). Tried it out on some plywood before moving to some test strips in walnut:

 

 

First try, but I really like the weathered look of it, gives it a bit of character 🙂 Still need to see how this will hold with varnish on top, that still needs to be tested.

 

Last mayor build on the hull are the wales. these run across the entire side of the hull and bend with the stern to the decoration on top.  Luckily some cutting boards were up for replacement, so....

 

 

I really should learn to ensure my clamps can actually reach the bent wood 🙂  Letting these dry for 24 hours, so looking forward to fitting them tomorrow. I outsourced the sail to a friend with a sewing machine, that should arrive early next week.

 

Also, not related, went to my supply store with the Admiral right before leaving on holiday, and this came back:

 

 

As the Admiral is into making Mediterranean diorama's, this caught her eye. So another build commission came up 🙂

 

Also, this came home:

 

 

I know I know, I said never again, but Bluenose has been on my wishlist for a long time, and I did some research before buying AND checked the contents of the box at the store, and lo and behold, it came with extensive instructions! And detailed plans and schematics! Looking forward to this one. Found out that the ornaments on the bow and the name were not included apparently, so I fired off an e-mail to Amati customer support 20 days ago to check. Still did not get an answer. Must be an Italian thing 🙂

 

Take care and stay safe!

[Thukydides]

I think that looks really good. Just try applying varnish over your test piece and see what happens when you rub it a bunch.

[Louie da fly]

Looking good, but I think the ram looks a bit small. Check out the rams at 

 (which are, admittedly Roman and/or Carthaginian) and also do a Google image search on the Athlit Ram, which is Greek (they think!).

 

Steven

[Roger Pellett]

I am reading Homer’s The Odyssey, a modern English translation of the Greek text but in the original Greek Hexametric poetic form.  Much to my surprise I am enjoying it immensely.

 

Homer likes to use adjectives as literary devices to maintain the poetic cadence;  for example, the goddess Athena is always “Bright Eyed Athena.” With this in mind here’s what he repeatedly says about galleys:

 

They are usually described as Black Galleys and sometimes Well Balanced Galleys.

 

Rigging is always Plaited Oxhide Rigging.

 

They are always moored with their stern to the beach.

 

When they get underway Their Pine Mast is stepped into the Mast box.

 

Roger

 

[Louie da fly]

1 hour ago, Roger Pellett said:

When they get underway Their Pine Mast is stepped into the Mast box.

 

Like this?

 

 

Hellenic ship, mosaic (ca 1st century BCE-CE). 

 

Steven

[Danstream]

@ObviousNewbie, I am following with interest your build, being in the past interested in greek history and Homer poetry. I know that this is an unsolicited advise and I waited a lot before writing it. Please do not consider it if you think it is not worthwile.

 

It is about the eye that you are going to paint/apply on the bow of your ship. It seems that you are going to place the eye with an inclination and with a 'cartoonish' style so to render a kind of 'angry' or 'menaceus' look. I do not think that this should be the case. Please look at documents of the time, like the mosaic above or the numerous pieces of pottery that can be found on the web and you will find that the eye is generally represented with a 'hieratic' look, without any particular expression. The eye was not meant to convey fear to enemies, like a nose art of an airplane, but rather to protect the ship, to give to the ship the sense of sight that would help to navigate and follow safely the proper routes.

 

Best regards,

Dan

[Danstream]

To illustrate my comment, please have look of this vase where a ship is depicted (Ulysses and the sirens):

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/image/478976001

 

This vase is from the same date (c.a. 470-480 BC) of the claimed date of the model.

Dan.

 

[ObviousNewbie]

Hi all, thnx for checking in. It's been very busy in non-shipyard activities, so progress on Ephialtes was slow. However, managed to get some work done, installed the rubbing strakes after bending them and re-used the cutting board to bend the brass decorations which go on top:

 

 

After that, had another look at the ram. Made paper prototypes both large and smaller than the ones I had, nothing seemed to really work looks-wise. Got a bit of a feeling the entire bow section wasn't really made for this kind of construction, so decided to give the little Amati ram a go. that seemed to make more sense, so decided to go for that one and adjust the wales and decorations accordingly.

 

I realise this is not the way some of you have gone, but at this point, with all the changes and additions I did, I got the feeling more and more this wasn't supposed to be an historically accurate version, but rather my own interpretation.

 

After bending the decorations, proceeded on the stern and worked my way forward:

 

 

 

I used @moreplovac's trick to attach the decorations, spacing the nails at equal distances. This also marked the first time I went electric: got a bit tired of trying to drill through thick brass and got out the Dremel.

 

Thank you @Danstream for the advice on the eye. I found it odd the eye on Olympias was drawn this way, so tried out some variants in paper. This is the one I'm going for:

 

 

Attached the meander decoration as well, and finalised all 44 oars. Now it's clean-up and correction time, and then waiting for the sail to be delivered.

 

Stay safe!

 

 

[ObviousNewbie]

Hi all, thnx for checking in. Quick update, testing for the eye is ongoing, with some setbacks but a lot of lessons learned:

 

 

Top two versions were done with coloured pencil, but as soon as the varnish went on, most of the colour disappeared into the brush and the rest got smeared out. Not a good start. I then tried with painting the white and adding the eye on top in pencil (middle three, top left). That didn't work out too good either. It has to be said that I don't consider myself as a painter, more as a smearer, so I try to avoid brushes whenever possible (the irony is: one of the ships highest on my wishlist currently is the Vasa, try getting that one built without touching a paintbrush 🙂 ).

 

Took a deep breath and decided to forego the pencils and use actual paint. I was assisted for the black lines by some Molotow blackliners of 1 and 0,5mm. Top right was a first try, also tested how well the paint would come off by with sanding if anything went wrong. Bottom left is the last test, which I think works out OK. Now to finalise a process to ensure the positioning is identical on both sides of the bow, and then convincing myself to actually take a brush to Ephialtes itself...

 

Take care and stay safe!

[clearway]

sometimes i use a cocktail stick instead of a paintbrush for fine lines, keep up the good work.

 

Keith

[ObviousNewbie]

Hi all, eventfull weekend behind us: took several deep breaths, tested, retested and measured, and went for it:

 

 

 

Made sure I cut out the masking tape from the same template, and NOT on the hull itself (again, the value of testing off-boat). Put down first layer of Tamiya matt white, but dotted, instead of brushing. Allowed to dry, then applied second template for the iris, used Vallejo royal Blue. After dying, used the Molotow Blackliners, 1mm for the eye, 0,5mm for the iris. Here's what I came up with:

 

 

 

Wanted to make sure Ephialtes didn't end up cross-eyed, so each step was followed by measuring and re-measuring. It's not perfect, but I'm happy with the result.

 

After that, apply varnish, attached the ram, added another display stand as the Anti one was not to my liking, some final corrections and Ephialtes' hull is finished:

 

 

 

As said, the mast, yard and oars are all ready, waiting for the delivery of the sail now, which might take some weeks 😞  Rudders are ready too, but, knowing myself, they will be fitted last in order to avoid any "accidents".

 

As soon as the sail arrives, she'll go back to the shipyard, in the meantime, those closed kit boxes are starting to look very tempting...

 

Stay safe!

Edited October 17, 2021 by ObviousNewbie

[Thukydides]

Great job on the eyes

[Louie da fly]

You've done a beautiful job on those eyes. They turned out very well.

 

Steven

[GrandpaPhil]

Looking good!

 

If in future builds you would like to make your own sails, I have discovered that muslin works really well for sails.

 

It is a little time consuming but has worked well for me in the past.

Edited October 27, 2021 by GrandpaPhil

[dancooper]

Mooi werk.  Er zijn niet veel duidelijk bouwverslagen voor dit type schip.

 

Nice work, there aren't many clear buildlogs for this kind of vessel. 

[Mike Dowling]

I am currently building the same model and I simply have no idea how you managed to bend that curve in the wale at the stern. I have done a lot of bending before but this one is just defeating me. I know it is one huge lateral bend but the wood I have is just splitting. Any suggestions/advice?

[ObviousNewbie]

Hi Mike,I actually used a combo of tricks: first I drew the curvature from the leftover plywood on an old cutting board, and marked it with nails to keep the plank in place. Then I found some strips of treated birchwood in the right size in the local hobby store, this birchwood was treated in such a way it could bend 180 degrees without splitting, Soaked that in hot water for an hour and carefully mounted it in the template on the cutting board:

 

 

After drying, the wales came out like this:

 

 

So the trick is to use the treated wood, NOT the wood provided in the kit. Tried that a couple of times, and they couldn't handle the ben, as you also experienced.

 

Hope this helps!

[Cat]

I'm a newbie, first wooden ship kit and I chose this model 😢If it weren't for your life saving tips and instruction I would have set fire to the kit already, the set instructions are literally diabolical.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POSTING THIS. I'm only at the start about to lay planking but the kit has lain around for a year because I didn't know what to do. Thank you for posting your experience

[mtaylor]

Cat,

I suggest you open a log of your own as it's a great way to get help, meet others, and also help out other builders doing the same model.    Also, do an introduction in the Introduction area..   Welcome to MSW.

[ObviousNewbie]

21 hours ago, Cat said:

I'm a newbie, first wooden ship kit and I chose this model 😢If it weren't for your life saving tips and instruction I would have set fire to the kit already, the set instructions are literally diabolical.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POSTING THIS. I'm only at the start about to lay planking but the kit has lain around for a year because I didn't know what to do. Thank you for posting your experience

Hi Cat,

 

I feel your pain, this was my third model, and after two double plankers with ample instructions, this was a huge challenge to complete. My advice, take your time, think every step in the process through before doing it, and try to think two steps ahead: as in:"If I put this there, then what about the piece which is supposed to attach?". That will save you a lot of trouble.

 

Also, if possible, try and get your hands on some spare wood and test. There's not much extra in this box, but whatever there was I used to get to know the properties of this type of wood (walnut), which behaves very differently from the lighter lime. And believe me, that testing paid off, as it gave me a clearer idea of what I could do once I started planking.

 

Meanwhile, the sail arrived 🙂 Been working on her off and on for some time, but life has a nasty tendency of interfering... I'll update later this week with some new pictures.

 

Meanwhile, if you run into an issue or have a question, don't hesitate to ask!

[Rebelnfl]

Another Newby here. Thought this boat would be pretty straight forward. NOT. Question, anyone have pictures of balsa for bow of Greek bireme? Amazing drawings have nothing.  I have stern shaped and installed. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[ObviousNewbie]

Hi @Rebelnfl, this kit is indeed anything but straightforward. Spent a lot of time trying to figure out the poor excuse of a plan before proceeding, I was also helped by some great build logs on the site (I linked them in a previous post).

 

Regarding your query, I managed to retrieve this picture from the front of Ephialtes before planking:

I took a stepped approach as you can see: first I formed the balsa needed for the wales, (did that before the planks went on obviously). I remember having to take a guess where the deck planking at the front would end, used a spare strip to approximate and drew a line on the deck, then carefully remove the surplus.

 

The second balsa piece was to cover the angle the hull makes: largely flat, I left some space where the balsa meets the false keel to accommodate for hull plank thickness.

 

Last part was the trickiest, as there's a significant bend to make. I used some spare 0,6mm strip left over from my Terror build to check the shape, overlaying it after each sanding session, checking, sanding again, etc, ad nauseam 🙂

 

Fairing of the bulkheads is really critical here, did a lot of measuring and trying before grabbing the sanding block.

 

One more thing: you'll notice in the picture I added a little 2x2mm strip on bulkhead 3: this is not in the instructions, but as I saw no other way to fit the planks securely I worked this way.

 

Hope this helps, if you have any other queries, don't hesitate to get in touch.

 

Good luck!

[ObviousNewbie]

Hi all, apologies for the long silence, it's been hectic, did a lot of building, and no updating.

 

So huge update coming on all current build logs, here goes for Ephialtes:

 

The sail finally arrived! First try at attaching sails to yards:

Finnicky, but doable. then the final rigging (nowhere near the level Terror and Diana) was over quickly and she was ready for delivery to the Admiral, who immediately built up the surroundings to give her a place of honour:

 

More detailed pictures to follow later...

 

All in all, very educational build, but also very frustrating, due to the lack of instructions. On the other hand, this forced me to think out of the box and make my own solutions.

 

Thanks to all for all the help!

 

 

[Rebelnfl]

Obvious Newby, thank you for your reply with pictures. Will be very helpful. Thanks again,  Gary

[Cathead]

Very cool, thanks for taking the time to share the build!

[Rebelnfl]

ObviousNewbie, would you by chance have picture(s) of stern for this build? What came with kit isn't much help. Particularly interested in decking edges near the captains seat as they relate to hull planking going up curved upright at stern. Thank you, Gary, aka rebelinfl

[ObviousNewbie]

On 9/15/2022 at 12:01 PM, Rebelnfl said:

ObviousNewbie, would you by chance have picture(s) of stern for this build? What came with kit isn't much help. Particularly interested in decking edges near the captains seat as they relate to hull planking going up curved upright at stern. Thank you, Gary, aka rebelinfl

Hi Gary, apologies for my late reply, as I'm moving countries and am setting up. Unfortunately that means my computer with all my pictures is still in transit. If you can hold on until beginning of October, I can provide you with a detailed look.

 

Meanwhile, I hope this already helps: I bent the deck planks in situ, holding them down with some spare wood as they dried:

I calculated 9 strips, so bent them all using the same method:

I numbered them because I wanted to make sure the sequence they were in when drying would be kept, just in case.

 

Then I used some tracing paper and drew a copy of the stern end of the deck off the plans, put that on my bent planks and drew that line on the wood. Then some careful cutting and filing, this was the result:

 

I first thought to leave as is, but as I had some 1x3mm strips to spare, I bent 2 strips (set them in situ again) for the edge.

Resulting in this:

Hope this helps, if not, let me know and I'll try to explain more.

 

Good luck!