Chris Watton and Vanguard Models news and updates Volume 2

[Kusawa2000]

15 hours ago, chris watton said:

The decks will be 0.8 or 1mm limewood laser cut and etched as standard in the kit, as this is what it will be designed for. however, as I have said before, this does not stop anyone wanting to plank the decks themselves using planking of their choice. They can use either the laser etched decks or printed full size deck patterns on the plans as templates if they so wish.

 

I used to use maple veneer, which was really nice - problem was I could not have enough sheets in a nice neutral colour tone, so reject rate was way too high.

 

All of my kits have pear as the finishing planking for the hull, be it in pre cut or planking form.

Chris: Many thanks... just what I wanted to hear! 👍

[chris watton]

Checking figurehead in relation to bowsprit, and the fit of the new stove. Pics not too flattering, but this hull is only used as a basis to check important parts and finalising the more important aspects of the hull designs. So now, I know that the whole hull goes together very well, all the gun and upper deck beams fit perfectly, and the bulkheads will give a nice run for the outer planking.

 

Also inner bulwarks shown, these do take an age to get right, due to curves and the amount of upper deck beam slots. These are cut and checked using ply, but kit version will have pear versions, engraved and all positions marks or cut for all inner bulwark fittings - I always hated having to plank inner bulwarks, very awkward and there was always the real chance of some planks splitting or breaking off when filing the ports - not anymore!

[scrubbyj427]

The fit of parts looks really good Chris!

[Ronald-V]

Really cool to follow the design progress! 👌

[glbarlow]

I agree with Ronald, fun to see the design process as it develops. So much thought required for every step.

[chris watton]

2 hours ago, glbarlow said:

I agree with Ronald, fun to see the design process as it develops. So much thought required for every step.

Cheers!

 

I usually don't show too much of this stage, as it is very long and boring, and newly designed parts are usually cut from crappy scrap materials, as they're only used to check fit and ultimately discarded. 

I am hoping this second hull is the last I need until I cut for the hull that I shall use (fully planked and complete with all laser cut parts) to take pics of the stages for Jim to make the final prototype model and build log on this site - but still quite a long way to go. 

 

So, before this goes on sale, the hull has been fully assembled, keel, bulkheads, gun ports, decks, beams etc. at least 5 times to 'tune' the parts as much as they can be - always need a little wiggle room, as some will sand the hull slightly different to others, so have to cover most eventualities. 

[François de Saint Nazaire]

Hello Chris,

I confirm it's a pleasure to be backstage. Regarding the figurehead used for testing, I assume it's the original ? When you mentioned it matches the original, did you mean the one from La Tourterelle

?

 

Thanks in advance.

[chris watton]

1 minute ago, François de Saint Nazaire said:

Hello Chris,

I confirm it's a pleasure to be backstage. Regarding the figurehead used for testing, I assume it's the original ? When you mentioned it matches the original, did you mean the one from La Tourterelle

?

 

Thanks in advance.

Yes, we used the one from La Tourterelle as it is a lot more detailed than that of the Unite/Surprise, It seems the only real difference in overall shape are the flags angled upwards on each side. To make it more or less what the Surprise plans show, it would just be a simple matter of removing the flags. (I always assumed most will use the other figurehead anyway):

 

Another figurehead will be included that is more in line with the fictional version from the novels and film.

[François de Saint Nazaire]

Thank you Chris.

 

Don't forget your French followers 😉.

For me, it will always be 'La Tourterelle' (The Original), even though I really like the novels by Patrick O'Brian.

[chris watton]

OK, I added the upper deck beams, all fine, and then added my one off special 0.8mm ply deck, ready for next stage of development.

[Kusawa2000]

51 minutes ago, chris watton said:

OK, I added the upper deck beams, all fine, and then added my one off special 0.8mm ply deck, ready for next stage of development.

I do like how you are opening up the spar deck to the lower gun deck. Just gives it additional neat detail to the hull!

[chris watton]

3 minutes ago, Kusawa2000 said:

I do like how you are opening up the spar deck to the lower gun deck. Just gives it additional neat detail to the hull!

The deck openings will be a little different for the finished model, as I need to make sure there's enough depth for the 18 Pounder carronades to sit.

[mgatrost]

15 minutes ago, Kusawa2000 said:

I do like how you are opening up the spar deck to the lower gun deck. Just gives it additional neat detail to the hull!

That last photo really gives you a sense of the scale. 😮

[Kusawa2000]

6 minutes ago, chris watton said:

The deck openings will be a little different for the finished model, as I need to make sure there's enough depth for the 18 Pounder carronades to sit.

Chris: Good point. You will might have to sacrifice the eyebolt for the inhaul tackle but as mentioned having visual access to the gun deck is a great addition to the kit.

[chris watton]

36 minutes ago, Kusawa2000 said:

Chris: Good point. You will might have to sacrifice the eyebolt for the inhaul tackle but as mentioned having visual access to the gun deck is a great addition to the kit.

Cheers - although this has been the case (visual access to the deck below) with Sphinx, Indy and Harpy - but this will be the first with no ply sub deck at all. Assembly more than strong enough to not need a sub deck.

[hamilton]

Following the prototyping process is such a treat!! Thanks for sharing this with us Chris!! Does way more than build excitement for this kit!

hamilton

[Nipper]

Chris

 

From your last photo I see that you get your Easter egg on Good Friday.  I have to wait until Easter Sunday!

 

Nipper

[chris watton]

6 minutes ago, Nipper said:

Chris

 

From your last photo I see that you get your Easter egg on Good Friday.  I have to wait until Easter Sunday!

 

Nipper

Me too! Will eat it whilst watching Ben Hur tomorrow!

[chris watton]

Well, I worked all day today, continuing Surprise stuff.

 

This morning, I decided to make the templates for the fore and quarterdeck bulwarks, which are to be pre-cut. So first, the upper deck and beams were to be removed. My initial idea was to do the same I did for Indy, with most of the outer sides planked. 

 

However, I could not get the thought out of my mind just how nice the sides would look if they were pre-cut and engraved, with treenail detail - that would look great when painted ochre (or just varnished). So, with this in mind, I made a template for the whole of the hull side down to the top of the main wale line (or in Surprise's case, where the planks get thicker).

 

The pics show the end result of a day’s work, with many templates laser cut in white PolyBak, with each successive template (and there were many) tweaked a little more until, eventually, the final template is cut in the material that will be used in the kit, pear, shown in the pics. There was no warping to the undersides near the bow, and curved around very nicely on my disposable 'mule hull'

 

The downside to this, and the reason I initially dismissed doing this, is cost (0.8mm pear sheet needing to be 800mm long and 4 required just for the outer hull) and time. It will increase the overall cost to the kit. But it does mean planking, like on the smaller kits in the range, is relegated to the bottom half of the hull only, with all upper sides being completely pre-cut and laser engraved. It also means I can work slots into the bulwark sides for the fore, main and mizzen channels, these worked very well for the new Speedy and Harpy.

 

I hope I have made the right choice..

 

Oh, for the rudder fixing, I am doing the same as I did for Indy, with 3-d printed gudgeon and pintles that simply slot into the rudder and rudder post, I do very much like this method as it is both simple and looks accurate.

 

[Glenn-UK]

Great idea

[Kevin]

you have my vote

[Tossedman]

I love seeing the prototyping and reading about the method and thought that goes into in. Great that you're sharing. Thanks!

 

Cheers,

 

Todd 

Edited Saturday at 11:20 PM by Tossedman

[Nipper]

On 4/19/2025 at 9:24 AM, chris watton said:

Me too! Will eat it whilst watching Ben Hur tomorrow!

Chris

 

This morning my wonderful wife gave me my Easter egg as expected.  But, she said that because I love working in miniature, she'd found something really appropriate.  A Cadbury creme egg.

 

Nipper

[Mike_H]

Plus one vote for the template!  Seems amazing to me that either the pear is sufficiently elastic or that the curvature in the vertical plane so slight that it will sit on the frames so well. But clearly it does!

[chris watton]

37 minutes ago, Mike_H said:

Plus one vote for the template!  Seems amazing to me that either the pear is sufficiently elastic or that the curvature in the vertical plane so slight that it will sit on the frames so well. But clearly it does!

The pear is 0.8mm, the 0.2 doesn't seem a lot compared to standard 1mm thickness, but it does seem to make a lot of difference when manipulating the sheet to shape, plus there is less need to soak the part before bending to shape. Pear does like to hold onto that water for at least a day or so (sometimes much longer), making it look as though the part is way too big before shrinking back to original size.

[Kusawa2000]

Call me crazy but I always enjoyed planking above the wale. I find the individual planks really gave the hull a lot of character. I agree most of the hulls will be painted so if its individually planked or a template etched with the planks and treenails it may be hard to tell the difference. Maybe have it as a option at the time of purchase? Just floating the idea out there... 

[chris watton]

8 hours ago, Kusawa2000 said:

Call me crazy but I always enjoyed planking above the wale. I find the individual planks really gave the hull a lot of character. I agree most of the hulls will be painted so if its individually planked or a template etched with the planks and treenails it may be hard to tell the difference. Maybe have it as a option at the time of purchase? Just floating the idea out there... 

Well, being a wooden kit, there is nothing to stop you doing this and discarding the kit parts. I see this with the pre made decks, some plank their own. Nothing wrong with doing this at all. Indeed, I expect it from some modellers.

[Kusawa2000]

4 hours ago, chris watton said:

Well, being a wooden kit, there is nothing to stop you doing this and discarding the kit parts. I see this with the pre made decks, some plank their own. Nothing wrong with doing this at all. Indeed, I expect it from some modellers.

Chris: True enough! I admit it will be nice to have options!