Roman Quinquereme and Claw by Glen McGuire - FINISHED - 1/500 - BOTTLE

[Landlubber Mike]

20 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

To carry on a little more with this distraction:

 

Mike, did you leave a postcard at Post Office Bay? Background for the uninitiated: in the 19th century whalers had a mail barrel on the beach here hence the name. Newly arrived whalers from Nantucket would bring mail for all the crews already in the Pacific and drop it in the barrel. When a whaler watered in the islands, they dropped mail for home into the barrel and picked up any incoming mail for them. When a whaler was leaving for home, they picked up all the mail for home and took it with them.

 

Nowadays you buy a postcard, address it to yourself, and leave it unstamped in the barrel. While there you search through all the postcards to see if you can find one addressed to somewhere very close to your house. If so, you are to take it home and go to the peoples' house, knock on their door, and hand it over "special delivery".  I was amazed to find a card from people a few streets over. We've been over a couple of times but they weren't home. Unfortunately, we recently received OUR postcard in the mail; someone brought it back to somewhere in Canada, stamped it, and mailed it to us. 😒 Idiots. It would have been a great surprise and pleasure to have someone come to our door with it instead, someday.

I can't remember whether I did so or not.  I do remember going to the island with the mailbox - was a cool thing to see.  Glad that it worked for you - how cool!

[Glen McGuire]

Heaven forbid that this build log should ever go off on a tangent, but are any of y’all fans of Indiana Jones movies?  I’m a big fan and just went to see the new one (Dial of Destiny) with some folks.  I won’t give any spoilers here for those of you that plan on seeing it, but I will say that it’s quite obvious Disney has been trolling Model Ship World for script ideas!  

 

In fact, there’s one build log in particular (AHEM…AHEM) that contains a lot of things mentioned in the movie.  I’ll leave it at that!  😲
 

[Keith Black]

4 minutes ago, Glen McGuire said:

In fact, there’s one build log in particular (AHEM…AHEM) that contains a lot of things mentioned in the movie.  I’ll leave it at that!

 You ole dog, you can't leave us in the lurch like that. I demand a hint!  

[Louie da fly]

Beautiful work, Glen. You're doing a wonderful job, particularly at such a small scale. And I thought 1:200 was difficult!

 

Steven

[Glen McGuire]

10 hours ago, Keith Black said:

You ole dog, you can't leave us in the lurch like that. I demand a hint!  

OK, Keith.  In the first few minutes of the film, before you've barely even started on your popcorn, they just might mention another ole dog named Archimedes!

[Javelin]

20 minutes ago, Glen McGuire said:

OK, Keith.  In the first few minutes of the film, before you've barely even started on your popcorn, they just might mention another ole dog named Archimedes!

I knew it was the penguins you were talking about.

 

But shouldn't you continue the build instead of watching movies???

[Glen McGuire]

On 7/6/2023 at 6:22 AM, Javelin said:

But shouldn't you continue the build instead of watching movies???

Since Javelin has apparently grounded me until I make further progress, I figured I'd better get busy.  There's a new Mission Impossible movie coming out in a couple of weeks and I want to go see it.

 

So here's the latest.  Next steps were painting the 7 hull layers and gluing them together.  That's another reason I like doing laminated hulls - when I want layers that are contrasting colors, I can paint them before gluing and avoid having to do pinstripe painting afterwards. 

 

 

While the glue was drying, I finished construction on the 180 oars (actually 190 for some overage).  I take 0.5mm brass rods and cut them into 5/8" segments.  Then I use vise-grips to smash down the end for a paddle.

 

 

Here's the hull glued up.

 

 

And then the nerve-wracking job of splitting the hull down the middle and hoping I don't slip with the saw and have to rebuild the hull.  I also added alignment dowels to aide with joining the hull halves inside the bottle.

 

 

Next was carving the bow and stern shapes and adding them to the hull.  The final step of this update was cutting and adding the bulwarks.  The mast is dry-fitted for now.  Once again I'm using @John Fox III's genius hidden hinge method of mast construction.

 

 

I figure I'd better get this whole thing finished by September or Javelin won't let me watch any football games!!  😃

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Glen McGuire

[GrandpaPhil]

Very nice!

[Javelin]

Great progress indeed. Did you consider an offset cut to keep the bow, stern and masts fixed on one half? Would make life a lot easier I believe.

Or is the bottle neck really too tight to do that with the oars and all? 

 

I kind of expected my comment to backfire in following way: "Shouldn't you be building instead of making stupid comments in my build log"

But I'm happy it's motivating (forcing ) you to carry on

 

 

[Glen McGuire]

11 hours ago, Javelin said:

Did you consider an offset cut to keep the bow, stern and masts fixed on one half? Would make life a lot easier I believe.

Or is the bottle neck really too tight to do that with the oars and all? 

Hey Javelin, yes to both of your questions.  I did consider it but, as you said, the oars would prevent the wider half from fitting thru the bottle opening.  Also, since there's now real way to mask the split line of the deck once the hull halves are joined inside the bottle, I'd rather have it running down the middle for a symmetrical look.

 

There will be some items on the top of the deck that will rest on the centerline - the mast and mast step, a corvus, and an archer's castle.  What I'm thinking for those is to secure them to one of the deck halves (likely the display side) to where half of each item hangs over the edge of the deck.  Once I join the 2 hull halves, the items will be centered on the deck, but will not actually be glued to the other deck half.  Although I guess I could put a spot of glue on the other half of the deck where the items will connect for additional security.  Kind of thinking out loud here.       

 

   

 

[Glen McGuire]

Now to make some of the decorative elements for the boat.  First, a simple gold line (0.5mm brass rod) that articulates the volute on the prow.

 

 

Next is the, uh, I have no idea what it is called and cannot find a name for it anywhere.  So if anyone knows what the decorative, fan-tail extension of the stern post is please educate me.  I'm trying to make something that resembles either of these 2 examples:

 

Here's my effort using 0.35mm diameter eye pins soldered together.

 

 

Next up is the rostrum or battering ram.  The terms seem to be interchangeable for these Roman warships based on what I've read.

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Glen McGuire

[Louie da fly]

I just call it a tail. It's probably got a correct name, but I've never been able to find out what it is. You've done a nice job of it, but I think the ends need to be slightly curved upwards (assuming that's practical at this scale and not just nit-picking).

 

Looking forward to the ram. There's quite a bit of archaeology available on these - available on a google image search, plus here:

 

 

Steven

 

 

[Glen McGuire]

I rifled thru my bins of spare metal parts looking for something suitable for the rostrum, finally settling on some small brass nails that are 1.2mm in diameter and about a centimeter long.  To get them in a shape resembling a rostrum while also being able to attach them to the waterline protrusion at the bow, I cut the heads off, pressed the round ends flat in a vise, bent the flat portions at opposing angles to fit the bow protrusion, and soldered them together.  The sequence is shown below.

 

 

Next it was time to add some more bling to the boat.  There are conflicting references about whether or not the quinqueremes had shields mounted on the bulwarks.  Naval-Encyclopedia.com says the quinqueremes did not have shields on railing.  Rather they had real bulwarks decorated with "pseudo-sculpted shields".  Since I've got real bulwarks instead of rails, I believe it's appropriate to go with the pseudo-sculpted shields.  

 

Now, what the heck can I find for those!  After scouring the aisles of Hobby Lobby for longer than I care to mention, I found a container of round glitter containing 2 sizes.  The smaller circles (slightly > 1mm in diameter) were almost exactly the height of my bulwark.  Perfecto!  I chose a container of copper and black colors.  

 

Alternating colors, I spaced the 2mm apart on the bulwark above the slanted roof above the upper oar deck.  They were a bit too shiny, so I painted them with a flat black and flat silver. 

 

Here's the ship with the rostrum glued on, the pseudo-shields painted and in place, and some bling added to the stern post.  I am going to hold off on attaching the fan tail to the stern post.  It's pretty fragile, and I've still got to handle the boat quite a bit, so I don't want to risk screwing it up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Glen McGuire]

19 minutes ago, Louie da fly said:

I think the ends need to be slightly curved upwards (assuming that's practical at this scale and not just nit-picking).

I appreciate the nit-picking, Steven!  It always helps make these builds better.  Whether I can pull it off remains to be seen, but now I'm gonna try!  

 

Also, those are fascinating pictures of the old ram they dredged up.  Thank you for posting that.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Glen McGuire

[Ian_Grant]

Glen, this is amazing ..... I love the bulwark decorations!!!  For some more ideas on finishing this ship, check out the following video:

 

https://m.facebook.com/Cast-Your-Anchor-Hobby-246287451905/videos/roman-navy-galley-warship-model-boat-awesome-cast-your-anchor-specializes-in-sta/325854628861004/

[Glen McGuire]

43 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

For some more ideas on finishing this ship, check out the following video:

Thank you, Ian!  Great video and model.  Things I saw in the video that I plan on adding are the castle (archer's tower), an oculus (decorative or intimidating eyeball), several ballistas strategically mounted behind the bulwarks, and of course the sail.  I'd love to put an eagle on the sail like I've seen in so many pics, but I don't know how I'd do that on my sail cloth at the small size required.

 

One thing on my list of deck fittings that I did not see in the video is a corvus (bridge) mounted between the mast and the bow.  I'm working on the castle right now, then probably move on to the ballistas and then the corvus.           

[Ian_Grant]

1 hour ago, Glen McGuire said:

 

One thing on my list of deck fittings that I did not see in the video is a corvus (bridge) mounted between the mast and the bow.  I'm working on the castle right now, then probably move on to the ballistas and then the corvus.           

Yes, the corvus was a Roman invention for the first Punic war. They soon discovered that the additional weight, and possibly the removal of forward bulwarks to allow deploying it at various angles, made the ships even less seaworthy so it was obsoleted. The new solution was a lighter-weight "boarding bridge" which could be manhandled over the side, and was stored lying athwartships on the forward deck, between new bulwark openings used to deploy it. You can see it sitting on the deck around the 21 sec and 53 sec marks in the following video (I meant to send you this video earlier, not the short fast one but couldn't find this at the time). That's a really beautiful model; I'd love to buy one but they are out of production, very difficult to find, and presumably $$$$. There's another video before this one showing his stages of the build.

 

I'd love to know where he found his crew too!

 

By the way, looking forward to seeing how you represent scorpio artillery at your miniscule scale. I'm wondering how to make them for mine!

 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Ian_Grant

[gjdale]

7 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

I'd love to put an eagle on the sail like I've seen in so many pics, but I don't know how I'd do that on my sail cloth at the small size required.

 

Would that perhaps be an opportunity for you to experiment with using Silkspan for the sails Glen? Would be easy to paint on the eagle, which at that size needn’t be much more than a blob.

[Glen McGuire]

8 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

That's a really beautiful model;

Wow!  A beautiful model indeed!  I did see the boarding bridge in this one.  I also noticed that the fan tail curves downward in this one as opposed the the upward curve that Steven @Louie da fly shows in his post above.  Hmmm.  Looks like I've got a decision to make there.  I may have to consult my dear friend to see if she's up for providing artistic guidance again.

 

8 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

looking forward to seeing how you represent scorpio artillery at your miniscule scale.

Thanks for the correction.  I should be referring to a scorpio rather than a ballista.  And yeah, the scorpio is even smaller than the ballista so it will indeed be a challenge at this scale. But the goal is just to produce something that bears a resemblance.  Here's the diagram I'm using as a reference.  My version won't be near as detailed since it will maybe be 2mm tall, which is enough to peek over my bulwarks.

 

2 hours ago, gjdale said:

Would that perhaps be an opportunity for you to experiment with using Silkspan for the sails

Possibly.  Are you talking about this product:

https://sigmfg.com/products/sig-silkspan-tissue?variant=465592156169

 

 

 

 

[gjdale]

2 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

Possibly.  Are you talking about this product:

https://sigmfg.com/products/sig-silkspan-tissue?variant=465592156169

 

 

It's the stuff that model aircraft guys use to cover their wings. You should be able to pick it up any LHS, or online. Here's an example from a quick search on the Australian e-bay site:

Deluxe BD73 Eze Tissue Paper 12.5 gsm Natural 5 x Sheets 500mm x 750mm  

 

[Louie da fly]

On 7/12/2023 at 1:04 PM, Glen McGuire said:

I am going to hold off on attaching the fan tail to the stern post.  It's pretty fragile, and I've still got to handle the boat quite a bit, so I don't want to risk screwing it up.

A very wise decision (don't ask me how I know).

 

On 7/12/2023 at 1:07 PM, Glen McGuire said:

those are fascinating pictures of the old ram they dredged up. 

There were quite a few of them IIRC. They were from Carthaginian ships sunk in a battle with a Roman fleet - see https://www.archaeology.wiki/blog/2021/09/03/two-bronze-warship-rams-discovered-at-the-battle-of-the-aegates-site/

 

Steven

[Javelin]

8 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

My version won't be near as detailed since it will maybe be 2mm tall, which is enough to peek over my bulwarks

I'd probably bend some 0.3mm copper or stainless wire around a rod/drill bit of appropriate diameter for the bow and cut to length. Then insert it through or glue it at the end of a small strip and make a support of an opposite V shape of 0.1 or 0.3mm wire. Something along those lines in any case.  

[Glen McGuire]

The castle or archer's tower is complete.  It's made from 1mm thick basswood.  For painting and texture of the surface, I used the same limestone dust method I used for the seawall earlier.

 

The construction process is shown below.  In the 4th pic, I used a tip I read in someone's build log here on MSW, but I cannot for the life of me remember whose it was to give them proper credit.  The brilliant builder used lego pieces to true-up corners.  I loved that idea and stole a few pieces from my son's old lego box.  

 

The last pic shows the castle dry-fit in place.  I'm thinking right now that I'm gonna have to affix it to the hull after the boat is in the bottle and the 2 halves of the hull joined.  When the castle is in place, it prevents that mast from lying flat enough to fit thru the bottle opening.  That should not be to difficult.

[Ian_Grant]

Looks great Glen! Must have been very fiddly. Just a note that they weren't actually made of stone, just sometimes painted to resemble it. They had to be very light weight wood and canvas affairs to not affect stability. In fact they were later made to be collapsible and stored flat on deck during heavier weather.

[Glen McGuire]

40 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

Just a note that they weren't actually made of stone, just sometimes painted to resemble it.

How interesting, Ian!  That means I accidentally made mine more historically accurate, right? 

[BANYAN]

Some of the greatest inventions were found by 'accident' Glen    Nice work mate.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Louie da fly]

Very nice precise work at such a tiny scale, Glen.

 

Steven

 

PS: For those of us who don't live in the US, could you use something else than a coin to give an idea of scale? (I use matchsticks, which I think are pretty much a standard size - at least the ones that you get in a normal matchbox - all over the world).

 

[Glen McGuire]

2 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

For those of us who don't live in the US, could you use something else than a coin to give an idea of scale?

Good point, Steven!  However, a matchstick would dwarf some of my stuff.  Anything smaller that is universal that you can think of?  What about a push-pin?  As a test, here's one of the scorpio weapons I've been working on today.  Or maybe I just put the object next to the head of the match.  That might give the best perspective for the really small stuff.  Thinking out loud again.

 

(later edit) I just posted the question on the Tips and Tricks forum to see what ideas others might have.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Glen McGuire

[Louie da fly]

Green match-heads??? What kind of devilry is this?

 

Steven

[Keith Black]

6 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

Green match-heads??? What kind of devilry is this?

 Due to global warming green matches were/are engineered to be more eco friendly, to burn with less heat than the standard red matches. Hopefully in time more MSW members will use the green match to indicate scale.