HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class

[AON]

yes.

it is some quirk between the 3D program, standard sheet sizing and my cheap printer.

 

[cog]

Have you tried to add a ruler on the sheet/drawing to be printed. If that doesn't conform to the scale it should be, you can in-/decrease the size (by percentage) of your print manually in your print setup. To be honest, I haven't had a printer (laser/inkjet) which printed at the exact scale, often caused by the printer's margins

[AON]

That is why I put a width (x) and a height (y) dimension on the one frame (of a dozen) on the large sheet.

I put my scale against the print and verify it is correct from the commercial printer before I pay them.

I was taught (in the engineering office) to never scale off a print.

Back in the day it was because "blue prints" stretched due to the wetness of the process.

We've tested dry prints and depending on the humidity in the paper and the heat of the machine the paper distorts so we still do not measure off a print.

 

Then there is the problem with margins or borders.

I believe two dimensions or scales (X+Y directions) need to on the print to verify the scale of the printed paper.

 

If others (Druxey) never had this problem... then it must be me (?) 

[cog]

The ruler in this case is unimportant, but the scale of it is. if the scale of the ruler matches the one on the commercial print, it should be OK ...

 

" If others (Druxey) never had this problem... then it must be me (?)"

I'm afraid a lot of people do not realise this happens to their prints, at least if they do not have the commercial printed version to compare to/as reference ...

Edited September 27, 2017 by cog

[druxey]

Oh, yes, I've had that problem!!! I also add x and y scales, and also I was told never to scale off a print. I've rejected commercial prints from e-files, not hard copy scans, as some commercial printers also do not print at exactly 100% unless calibrated against a test print and corrected. 

 

It's a printing jungle full of traps out there, folks!

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Hy Allan,

 

thank you very much for this detailled thead.

 

I'm astonished about all the eecherche work you, did. And this looks very intersting and I learn a lot.

 

I have to admit I haven't got your possibilities and abilitys but it looks very intetesting. In particular  as it's the same scale as I'm going to built my Triton. So it's very important to see what at all is possible in this scale at scratch. And where is the border of handcrafted modeling, as I can't use a mill or lathe.

 

I'm very impressed.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Heinrich der Seefahrer

[AON]

Thank you for the message.  You should be aware that I haven't any great skill level and I appreciate I've jumped into the deep end of this pool but find this forum to be my life jacket.

 

Making some progress.

I find the wood glue does not adhere to the plastic sheet (picture below).  It did to the glass, so this is quite a bonus!

 

I have (as you'll see below, one set of full frames installed, I installed one half of the next set this morning and hope to get the other half up tonight.

I've cut out the next set and need to fine tune the chocks before I glue the pieces together.

[druxey]

Good stuff, Alan. Keep your pencil point sharp, though, as thick lines = potential error.

[AON]

As of late I've been using a 0.5mm (0.02") mechanical pencil... it doesn't require sharpening just refilling.

I should however erase the pencil tracing (transferring the pattern to the wood with carbon paper) on the paper pattern when I assemble the wood pieces over it.!

 

As an aside, I have noticed some people inserting scale cut out cartoon people into their builds to effectively demonstrate the scale.

I will be inserting a much younger me into my next build stage photo.

So if you find yourself wondering... yes it is me, not some total stranger lurking about my ship.

 

[AON]

So let me introduce myself

CPO and Bosun (Bos'n or Boatswain), 141 Royal Canadian Sea Cadet Corps Bellerophon of Welland, Ontario (1972).

I shrunk my self to 5'-6" from my present 5'-10-1/2"

(glued to a thin piece of wood and that glued to a tiny hex nut to keep me upright)

 

I'll be adding my father (Able Seaman RCNVR 1939-1945) and my grandfather (Able Seaman NRNR 1914-1918) to the crew.

If I find one of my wife (Navy League Wrenette Corps Patrician of Welland) in uniform she will be signed aboard also... women allowed.

The only criteria for family to join is they must be in naval uniform.

 

I won't likely post again until I get back to at least where I was before I tore frames off.

take care till then.

Edited October 6, 2017 by AON

[cog]

I'll wait, Alan, I'm not in hurry ... as long as you do not dawdle overly

[druxey]

Just don't continue to shrink....

[cog]

48 minutes ago, druxey said:

Just don't continue to shrink....

If he does, he can finally start with some real tools life size, and less strain on the eyes ...

Edited October 6, 2017 by cog

[AON]

I noticed there is a problem.

I was staring at it but couldn't see the forest (it) for the trees (frames?).

After studying TFFM Vol 1 and 3 this weekend it became obvious.

I hadn't been chamfering my chocks/joints in the cant frames to account for the angle and sanding.

Too much of the chock was exposed and would be sanded away when fairing the inside surfaces of the frames.

In volume 1 of TFFM David simplifies the joints (square end butt joint) in the cant frames.

In volume 3 of TFFM Greg simplifies the joint (half step simulating the chock but cut back to the proper chamfered depth) in the cant frames.

So what I've put back on I have yet again taken off.

I believe I'll get it this next (last?) time!

 

"Seems there is always time to do it over".

[druxey]

Ah. Remember, it took three or four tries until I got my first set of cant frames right! Why should you - or anyone else - learn faster? Seriously, it's all part of the learning curve. Persevere, my friend. You are getting there. As Robert Louis Stevenson wrote, "It is better to travel hopefully than to arrive."

[AON]

Thanks for the encouraging words Druxey.

See you Sunday.

[dvm27]

I did cheat those joints on Pegasus Alan but did them correctly on Speedwell. David does discuss the lofting of these angles in Volume I of TFFM.  It really is quite easy to mill them if you have an angle plate. I only had one breakthrough out of the whole bunch so I increased the chock angle for it's replacement.

 

[AON]

If only I had a mill and an angle plate.

I should be able to "get 'er done" with one of the toys I do have... but I may never get joints quite as tight as yours.

[AON]

I am back.

Having successfully bevelled a futtock chock joint.

What a painful process it was for me to accomplish.

I pray I've got it going the proper way.

 

If not S/Lt Martin (she has since been promoted to Admiral) will have my hide! 

 

Feels like I've a quadrillion to go... so many opportunities to improve 

[druxey]

By George, I think he's got it! Hopefully the lip on the lower side (as seen in the photo) is deep enough for fairing.

[AON]

The angle seems a tad acute but I should only blend to touch that outer corner of the frame.... in theory.

[Trussben]

Cant frames sure are fun to make, I think only beaten by the hawse/bollard timber’s.

 

ben

[AON]

Well, here we are in December and I'd like to say I'm caught up to where I was but it ain't so.

I practised a bit with bevelling my chock joints in the cant frames and found a method that seems to work for me.

 

First I sand the chock bevel with the table disc sander, table angled to get it set proper.

 

Then my I mark off the depth on the futtocks.

(I tried using my scroll saw with the table tilted but it only works on one side and not the other)

I cut an angled relief to the line and then using a sanding stick file it down... bevelled, to near the line.

Check the angle with the chock, all placed on the marble slab I stole from the kitchen to keep it flat.

Then I finish with a file and sharpen the corner with a chisel.

 

The figure (sailor) is my Grandfather.

 

I have two frames together and made pieces for eight more.

 

I hope to get caught up over the Christmas holiday.

 

Looking ahead.... I've also been researching the original figurehead, for which there seems to be only a description but know sketches.

Bellerophon on Pegasus with his spear.  I've signed up for a bird carving course at Lee Valley Tools in Niagara Falls, Ontario, in February, to help me try to carve my figurehead in the years to come.  I also purchased Bill Short's rotary carve techniques PDF Booklet "The New Carving Ornamentation for Ship Models" found on the forum home page bottom right hand side.  Seems I have reading to do also.  Might attempt rotary carving the other figures. But again that is years from now so I have time to become an expert... or possibly just good enough.

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by AON

[mtaylor]

Looks super, Alan... well on your way.

 

As for the figurehead... most of the paintings I've seen (not many out there), are small and rather grainy but it doesn't appear that Pegasus is visible. Looks to be just Bellerophon.  I wonder if Pegasus was there as built and battle damage did it in early on?  I've got the book "The Billy Ruffian" and there's really no mention of the figurehead.  The "reconstructed" line drawing is no help as it's "a reconstruction"..  Hmm...   I'd love to build this ship but it's like key bits of detail are lost to history.

[SJSoane]

Alan,

It really shows how large those timbers were...

 

Mark

[albert]

Hi Alan great beautiful work.

[AON]

Good morning all and thank you for the likes.

 

Mark: those figurehead images you are looking at are the second figurehead made for the first ship.

The first figurehead is described as: Before it was damaged the figurehead represented Bellerophon as a nude figure draped in a red cloak riding Pegasus, his right arm raised, holding a javelin. The horse’s wings were spread. (source: http://figureheads.ukmcs.org.uk/?p=1715 )

 

On 14 July 1793, southwest of Scilly Isles HMS Bellerophon collided with HMS Majestic in gale force winds where she lost her bowsprit, foremast, main top mast, figurehead and cutwater was smashed.  The figure head was replaced with something a bit simpler as the Royal Navy was issuing orders to try and control the expense on ornamental carvings on the ships of the time.

 

All that remains of the second figurehead of the first ship named Bellerophon, is the head seen in many photos, which was all that could be salvaged due to rot.

 

Alan

 

[mtaylor]

Yer right.. I had to recheck when you mentioned it.... my bad. 

[AON]

Mark,

I stumbled on the information while trying to figure out what was in his left hand.  Then, while transcribing hundreds of old newspaper reports on the comings, goings and actions of the Bellerophon I stumbled upon the report of the loss of her figurehead.

Edited December 13, 2017 by AON

[garyshipwright]

Hi Alan. I must say you have been very busy the last few years from the research to drafting plans to building her. I went through you build log and don't believe that I would do the plans on the computer, to much of a learning curve.  Do believe I stick to pen and paper. Keep up the great job and will be watching your build as you travel the road that many have taken on.  Gary