Beavers Prize 1777 by Mike Y - 1:48 - POF - Hahn style

[ChrisLBren]

I'm enjoying watching your progress Mike - if this is any help - most museum models from the classic period do not depict hull caulking. I find that a good oil finish will be enough to highlight the lines between the boards - at least on the hull.  For deck planking - a simple number 2 pencil does the trick.

Chris

[Navis Factorem]

Hi,

 

My first 2 builds were kits, the Port Jackson Schooner which I built pretty much with what came in the box, followed by the Amati 1:60 Bounty which started off with what came in the box but after acquisition of McKay's Anatomy of the Ship book involved lots of scratch built details to increase the accuracy. The PJ Schooner was a 1 year effort, the Bounty 3 years.

 

For my next and current build, HMS Surprise, I decided to go for scratch build, at least for the hull and the woodwork. The metal fittings I will buy as I don't have the resources to make these up.

 

For me one of the most interesting aspects of the hull scratch build is researching to find original drawings which I could use, rather than acquiring a set of model plans prepared by someone else which would be their interpretation of the original drawings. I was given the Lavery & Hunt book which includes a set of ship's plans based on the Admiralty drawings, not drawings developed for model construction. It was then up to me to interpret these and develop a method of making up the hull as close to these drawings as I could. Plan preparation involved lots of scanning, scale changing and pre-planning to achieve as close as I could get to a true hull shape. One thing I wanted to achieve was a lightness of construction at the stern. Most kits seem to include a mass of woodwork to make the stern detail where the real ships are quite lightly built in this area, the stern was often the "Achilles heel" of these ships. I also wanted to achieve a "see through" look where the entire upper deck could be seen through the stern windows as if the ship was in "cleared for action" mode with the internal partitions removed.

 

So far so good and I am reasonably pleased with progress.

 

It is interesting to compare the hull shape that I have ended up with to the hull shape of a Mamoli kit that I was considering buying to use as a base for a serious kit bash. The Mamoli kit is much "pointier" at the bow and narrower at the stern and quite a different length to width proportion. I think that Mamoli must have a sort of generic hull design that they adapt to different models. Frigates like the Surprise were quite narrow for their length and the stern is comparatively wide, presumably to accommodate guns for the maximum length. These proportions would have made them fast through the water but they would have been hell in a cross sea!

 

Cheers,

 

David.   

[Mike Y]

David, I did not have a courage to draft the first scratch build based on original drawings... So many research and chance of mistake is so big.

But that sounds exciting! I will follow your log.

[Mike Y]

Making around 5 frames in two weeks, can't spend more then 20-30min every evening But it is a pretty good relaxation.

However, the result is frustrating. Yep, the wood colour difference again.

It looks like a frame built with three different kinds of wood, where only one of them is pear, and others are only technically pear, not something you consider as pear for a modelling.

 

Got really tired of that. But then I found a promising build log - La Belle by Hans Christian, where pear looks like pear! And colour is not varying, and finish is already nice. Thanks Hans for providing a better photos

His wood is from ArkoWood - www.arkowood-shop.de

Ordered new frame blanks there, all 60 meters of a cute pear. They do custom milling, and the order processing time is just 1-2 weeks.

The price is ok, just 150 EUR / 190 USD, plus cheap shipping, plus no import taxes or customs (because it is inside EU).

 

Will report when I will receive it, looking forward. It would be great to have a high quality supplier nearby, at least 4 out of 5 stars on a HobbyMill grade Truly hope it is my last whining about the wood quality.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Mike Y

[Redbeard]

Mike

 

At least youre making the decision now as opposed to later down the road when it's a little late.

 

Anyway...Good luck on the build! I'll check in from time to time to catch up on progress.

 

John

[Mike Y]

Installed 7 frames around midship to see how the all look together.

 

 

 

Now it is starting to look ship-alike!

 

Very curious how the edge of a frame will look like when faired and sanded...

A shot inside the hull promises that there would be a lot of fairing to make it smooth

 

[Omega1234]

Hi Mike. Very nice! You must be feeling pretty proud of yourself now that you've gotten to this stage, especially after some initial problems with the pear wood.

 

Well done and I'm looking forward to more updates.

[Mike Y]

Finally got in the right mood to make a rabbet. Was pretty scared, one mistake - and need to replace a section of a keel (which would be a good reason to add some joints though

 

However, so far it works out pretty well.

 

Started with a slow and gentle cutting of a straight line, using inner line of a keel as a base:

 

That give a straight and parallel lines. Another proof that good jig means a lot.

 

Then cutting away a strip in between, and smoothening it with a triangle-shaped file:

 

Decided not to make a big fat rabbet, will either widen it later, or shape the edge of a gardboard plank, so it will tightly fit into the rabbet. It is anyway better than an ugly gap between gardboard and keel, if rabbet is too wide.

 

Position against the frames is ok, just a minor adjustments required for some frames:

 

But that was all games, now need to continue the rabbet on the stem:

 

How to make a nice curve - no idea. Can't come up with any jig idea, because there is no base line to attach to. 

There is no chisel to make such curve. Trying to scratch it by hand will fail due to a wood grain.

Thinking of making an acrylic template, and scratching the line using that template. 

Or there are some better tricks? Would appreciate your advices!

[mtaylor]

Mike,

The rabbet looks great.  Use a test plank to finesse it as it's easier now while the keel can be removed than later when it's glued into position.  (Don't ask how I know this.  ).

 

As for the stem, is it glued to the keel?   The template is an excellent idea.  My stem is two pieces that mate.  On one piece, before glueing them together, I carved in the rabbet and then finessed it in place.  Fiddly work.

[Mike Y]

Mark, you are totally right - rabbet follows the shape of the keel, I should have carved it before gluing the stem. You see on a photo that rabbet pencil marks are parallel to the glue line bonding keel and stem.

But now it is too late, I did a classic mistake of gluing parts too early

Will try to make it with a template.

[AON]

Mike

If I may make a suggestion ....

Think  of it as an opportunity not a mistake!  

You get to solve a puzzle by having to think outside of the box.

 

BTW - I might have done the same thing

Alan

[Mike Y]

Alan, with your level of planning, I am sure you will end up with an ultra detailed IKEA-style assembly sequence before the construction actually started

Thanks for encouragement.

I think I will just use brute force - no jigs, just a very slow and gentle carving. No coffee, no beer, steady hand and a lot of practice before.

Hate that things, it is no longer a technological process, but more of an art.. You do not need an art if the process is good!

Edited November 4, 2014 by Mike Y

[AON]

If you could only hear me laughing ... you nailed me perfectly!

 

Problem is, usually my plans make perfectly good sense in my head but somehow don't always follow my plan in real life.

 

As Druxey would say, make sure your carving Knife/Chisel have a really good edge before you begin

It makes a world of difference.

Edited November 4, 2014 by AON

[Mike Y]

Hah, there is actually an IKEA assembly guide for the Viking ship: 

 

[Jack Panzeca]

Where were the IKEA instructions when I needed them.    

 

Mike, I really enjoy your build.  Freehand cutting makes me very nervous as well.  I would make a jig or use ships curves.  Keep up the great work.

[gjdale]

Mike - ROFLMAO :P

[Mike Y]

Discovered an amazing tool shop that also sells a high quality Swiss made chisels
(Followers from Stockholm - it worth to visit Slöjdetaljer, but you probably already know about that place)
Got two tiny chisels - one V shaped, one U shaped, and a carving knife. Pricey, but a good quality.
Now practicing a lot to be able to hand-cut a smooth curved rabbet, and maybe even draught marks

Edited November 10, 2014 by Mike Y

[Remcohe]

A sharp tool is a necessity, not only for draught marks  

 

Remco

[Mike Y]

Looks like I am becoming a hand tools fetishist.. There is something nice about working with a high quality chisels and knifes - no noise, no sawdust, and you feel like making a pinocchio

 

 

 

Especially surprised with the knife - it is the sharpest knife I ever held, it make a clean cut without any pressure, and it is heavy and sharp enough to ignore the grain direction!

But it reminds that as with any hand tool - you need to practice and learn a lot to use it nicely...

 

 

The shape of a rabbet was asymmetrical to meet the planks on a proper angle:

 

Result is not perfect, there are a few ooopsies, luckily most of them are on the inner side, which would be invisible.

 

 

I will not cut a rabbet on a side that would be fully opened. Not able to cut it smooth enough to make it fully exposed.

[Mike Y]

Hooray! Received my new wood for frames. 

• The colour variation is much smaller.
• Arkowood one is creamy and pink. Same colour as on Lumberyard laser cut parts, where the "prime grade" pear is used.
• Maximum thickness deviation is around 0.05mm (0.002 inches). My micrometer have a 0.05mm precision, so it is basically as correct as I can measure..
• Number of planks with defects (grey spots, etc) - 5 planks out of 60 (just 8%), which is quite ok
• Wood is already sanded with a fine grit
• Small wood deviation together with fine finish means a lot of time saved on sanding the frame to the uniform thickness and smooth surface.
• Planks are perfectly straight and not curved - saves some efforts when trying to cut the frame blanks on a proper angles.

But better look on pictures. Both woods are called the same, it is swiss pear aka steamed pear.

 

Box on top - Lumberyard, box in the bottom - Arkowood.

 

Left - Arkowood, right - Lumberyard. Notice the finish difference, Lumberyard wood is very rough, looks like sanded with 60 or 80 grit. Arkowood looks like sanded with 300-400 grit, or maybe even higher. It is very smooth!

 

Also ordered some sheets, just to try.

Left - pear, center - Castello boxwood, right - ebony

 

Ok, now I am finally happy with the wood I have, time to redo 9 frames that I already assembled  

[gjdale]

Congrats on the arrival of your new wood Mike. Looking forward to seeing your new frames.

[John R. McGann]

I have the completed hull of Cromwell but no rigging plans. Where can I obtain a set? John McGann  

[Mike Y]

John, as far as I know, Hahn did have any rigging plans for Oliver Cromwell.

So you will need to do some research, like finding a similar frigate with rigging plans (for example, Pandora is quite close, and there is Anatomy Of The Ship book for it).

 

There is a very little documentation about Oliver Cromwell, so I doubt you can find a precise rigging plans...

[mtaylor]

Good looking wood, Mike.   I'm happy to hear that you finally got what you wanted.   That Lumberyard pear doesn't look at all like Swiss Pear. It looks more like regular unsteamed (or unSwissed if you like) pear.  

[Remcohe]

Nice stash of wood, I bet you will really like working with Castello. 

 

Remco

[Mike Y]

Remco, your bet is spot on - after I tried Castello on my previous build (see longboat) - can't use any inferior wood anymore

 

P.S.: next update would be in a few weeks, started a batch of 10 frames

Edited November 14, 2014 by Mike Y

[Mike Y]

Cutting frames... 

Using belt sander to make sure that edges of frame blanks are straight. it is not very suitable for that job, but do not want to buy disk sander just for that..

 

 

In a meanwhile, looked critically on a laser cut keel. It has some grey spots (that are not dirt, but wood defects)

 

And some funny shaped "stain" inside the wood right on the stem:

 

And more important - it looks too simplistic / unrealistic for my taste. You really can't build a ship with a stern made of two giant pieces of wood. I miss a complex joints, tar simulation using black paper, etc.. Stem would be very visible, and it should be done right.

So decided to re-do it using new pear (to match the colour of the frames)

 

Since I had no drawings of keel structure for exactly that ship - I made a mix based on some photos from other build logs, AOTS book about Pandora, etc.

 

 

Loooots of sanding ahead! Maybe I really need a proper disk sander

Edited November 16, 2014 by Mike Y

[gjdale]

Mike,

 

Nice progress. A disc sander would be a very worthwhile investment for you. It is probably the single most used tool in my shop. Very useful for shaping outside curves on frame pieces, as well as squaring off ends as you're trying to do now. You can sand any angle and/or bevel on small parts too. It's a hugely versatile tool and will save you many hours and lots of frustration. I can highly recommend the Byrnes disc sander, but others like Proxxon would no doubt be very good as well.

[AON]

I concur

An extremely useful tool for the shop

[dvm27]

The disk sander (Byrnes) is the most commonly used power tool in my workshop. It'll save you hours of manual labor.