Beavers Prize 1777 by Mike Y - 1:48 - POF - Hahn style

[Mike Y]

Hm, Mark, not sure I understand. After each pass the wood gets thinner, so the center piece needs to be adjusted every time?

[mtaylor]

Yes.   I'm using this for straight pieces and curved one for things like beams.  The curved one is pretty custom since not all curves are the same.  It dawned on my just now, I don't have a picture of the beam jig, just the straight one.   

[Mike Y]

In a meanwhile, tested different ebony dyes on pear. This is a lighter pear, the one that was included into the timbering set from Lumberyard. Should be perfect for the purpose, colour deviation makes no difference if you put a dye on it

 

Found two dyes available, both from Liberon, one is water-based, another is spirit-based. Water-based works as I expected, but does not penetrate the wood deep enough. The spirit one is very weird, not a uniform structure, looks dirty and does not give a consistent colour. You can't apply multiple coats of it, the instruction says "second coat can tear out the first coat". But penetrates the wood better than the water-based (cut off a few slices to check that). Okay...

On this photo, spirit-based dye is in the bottom, and water-based is on top, near the corresponding can:

 

Close-up (sorry, on this photo and all other photos - water-based is in the bottom, spirit-based is on top):

 

Then applied different finishes on them.

Again, water-based dye is in the bottom, spirit-based dye is on top.

Left side - no finish applied at all.

Center - three coats of danish oil

Right side - two coats of tung oil.

 

 

 

Now I will cover half of each section with the paper, and put this test piece into direct sunlight for a while, until it would be a time to install wales. So I probably have a year

The idea is to see how a certain finish will change over time, exposed to UV. 

Will follow up!

[Mike Y]

Mike,

 

I still have a chunk of Ebony that I used for the wales of my OC. It bends over steam very well. If you pm me your shipping adress I'll be happy to send you some to try it out.

 

Peter

Peter, thanks a lot for the suggestion, I truly appreciate it!

I have some ebony as well (used it for the false keel), but would try to avoid it because of the nasty dust, its hardness and a massive cleaning required after any operation with ebony. (I do not have a workshop or a dust collection system).

Looks like dyed pear is a good substitute...

Edited November 19, 2016 by Mike Y

[druxey]

I've had generally good luck dyeing holly black. Seems to accept the dye well. Try that and compare the results with the pear.

[Mike Y]

druxey, thanks for the advice! Will try it as well. Hope it would not be too far away from pear, because getting holly in Europe is reeeeally expensive (ordering in US + intercontinental shipping + import tax + customs fees). I bought a bit for boats (yes, like the one on your picture, dreaming of making something similar)

[druxey]

I didn't know that holly is very expensive in Europe. That's unfortunate. By the way, I've been using shoe dye (alcohol based) which seems to have good penetration. Wood dye doesn't work so well (for me, at any rate).

Edited November 19, 2016 by druxey

[Mike Y]

Hmm! I was following the common sense that "it is better to use wood dye for wood, not the shoe dye". Probably I was wrong.. Will test the shoe dye as well!

Although I am pretty happy with the look of the water-based wood dye. Soft, monotone, even, a little bit grainy, exactly what I need for wales. But might be too fluffy for small parts.

[druxey]

Yes, I know - it is counter-intuitive. But I found wood dye not particularly good.

 

I see you have competition in the workshop now. That should keep you on your toes, Dad!

[cog]

Mike I can get you holly from here sizes vary, but it's all relatively small

from

50-100 cm length, 12-20 cm width en 2 tot 7 cm thick

 

Don't know the prices, but I could ask for youd.They don't have an international website and I don't presume they'll be shipping abroad, but I could do that for you. Just send me a PM if you're interested

[ASAT]

Mike, I think you are familiar with Chris L Bren's Confederacy? I seem to remember a post where he stopped dyeing his pear wood black with fiebing shoe dye in favor of the tamiya flat black paint with a top coat of watco's danish oil - said it was much less trouble? Seems like it would be easier to apply and control results as well? Just for your consideration as I think the contrast of his color scheme utilizing pear with various treatments looks so awesome.....

 

Lou

[Mike Y]

Carl: super, sent a PM!

Lou: yes, followed Chris' log with an awe, but I was under impression that he used Fiebing's shoe dye... Will re-read again

Druxey: to be honest, after reading Remco's blog, I am a bit worried about using the shoe dye. I know many used it without any problems, but his experience is a serious reason to avoid that dye... Or I am overthinking it?

 

There are so many combinations of the wood + dye + finish, I may soon run out of test pieces!

Edited November 20, 2016 by Mike Y

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Mike,

 

Ebony is the nicest wood you can use and no other wood can have the look and feel of this wood but saw dust is like a micro sand

which penetrates everywhere and this wood can be dangerous for the lungs in the long run.

 

The problem with dye is to control the penetration. When  you dye after wood installation and final sanding, you will want to use a tape to limit the area but many dies will want to go under the tape.

 

I use a water based paint easy to control the coverage and also it is very stable in time.

 

I do not want to apply any oil over it. I see no benefit. Chances are that if I do this, the surface will be more reflective and when you will take pictures you will see some light reflection.

 

I think you are overthinking, in french we say why make it easy when you can make it complicated.

It is exactly the same thing when you create a jig, you try to do it as simple as it can be.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Gaetan Bordeleau

[druxey]

I don't think that dye is an issue if applied off-model. The problem would be even a tiny droplet landing where you don't want it on your model! I dye my wales as the first planks hung on the model, taking extra care with masking at the stem. However, it's all a matter of personal preference.

[Mike Y]

Thanks for sharing! I truly appreciate the advices from the experts! 

 

Yes, it is hard to control penetration, so I was planning on dyeing off-model only. Except wales, I want to sand/scrape them first to make sure they are even and smooth. Meaning I will need to dye a small part of the plank that fits the stem, and the rest would be dyed on model after fairing. All remaining planking would be done after wales, so no risk of dye sipping into the other planks.

 

I want to use some finish to seal the surface - to avoid marring with fat fingers. But want to keep it matte. Danish oil is too shiny indeed, but tung looks good and matte enough. Poly would be too shiny. 

So water-based stain with two coats of tung oil looks really close to what I want, now I need to see how it changes over time. Will also try Holly and a shoe dye for comparison.

[Mike Y]

Finally got a few hours to work on the model

 

Tried a better method of cutting the inner lines of the slightly curved pieces, using a mill. It is described in TFFM, and with a very slight improvements it works really well!

 

The blanks are cut on the bandsaw, and outer curve is shaped on a disk sander:

 

After milling - smooth inner curve, super consistent width, and no nicks!

 

One of the timbers has a bevel, dividers are really handy to properly mark it up:

 

Result:

 

That timbers are curved in two dimensions, and another curve I made by dry-bending with heat.

Finally used my granddad hand vice that I have no opportunity to use previously

 

Seems like my hair dryer is too gentle and is not hot enough So two timbers cracked when I was gently bending them around a large cooking pot. Will try some cheap chinese hair dryer that does not care about your hair and can produce really hot air Or just go back to the steam/boiling method, it worked pretty well.

 

Careful alignment and markup:

 

Now need to cut the notches and make everything flush!

Edited November 21, 2016 by Mike Y

[Mike Y]

Making notches. New micro saws were handy to start them accurately without slippage:

 

 

And scalpel is really handy to remove the wood further. Very little force required, hence a good control of the cut. They flex much more than xacto blades, which makes it convenient for such application. Super happy with them, thanks Gaetan for making me try scalpels!

 

[ofencer29350]

Why simply do not take  blades of ebony and to make a lamellé - stuck which is easier to shape...

[Mike Y]

That is another way to do it, but I am worried about sanding through the thin layer of ebony. It is always better to have a big margin for fairing/sanding

Plus it implies I still need to have ebony dust in my living room, which I would like to avoid...

[tlevine]

In the past I have always stained the wale planks.  Chuck uses several layers of thinned artist's acrylic paint on his models.  I tried the same thing on Atalanta and am very pleased with the result.  After fours coats of paint I burnished it with 4000 grit sand paper to make it stand out from the matte finish of the rest of the hull.  What is very nice is that touch-ups are easily blended into the rest of the wale.

[Landlocked123]

Hi Mike,

 

Will you please share where you found that saw? Thanks.

 

Best,

John

[Mike Y]

Toni, thanks for the idea! Will try that as well. Wonder how artists are not going insane from all that variety of paints, brushes and application techniques

 

Hi Mike,

Will you please share where you found that saw? Thanks.

Best,

John

Hi John,

See http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7297-oliver-cromwell-by-mike-y-148-1777-pof-hahn-style/page-25#entry454181 and https://www.amazon.co.uk/Modelcraft-1-Piece-Precision-Saw-Set/dp/B001JJXE9A/ref=pd_bxgy_201_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0MN1DH0GSEF1Q8CSJK38

Or just google "modelcraft saw set", it is available in a number of shops. Note that there are two different sets - one with smaller saws, another with a bit larger saws.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Mike Y

[Landlocked123]

Thanks Mike.

[michael mott]

Mike great thread posts regarding your experiments and others thoughts about the ebony issue. Your grandfathers clamp is very nice is there a name on it or is it made by your grandfather?

 

Michael 

[Tigersteve]

Mike- just came across this build. Very nice!

Steve

[Mike Y]

Mike great thread posts regarding your experiments and others thoughts about the ebony issue. Your grandfathers clamp is very nice is there a name on it or is it made by your grandfather?

Hi Michael,

 

Here is a close-up:

 

For the context: my grandfather was a radio research engineer in USSR. He was working on the technologies similar to first cellular networks. He was a total radio geek (in a good way), and had an engineering mindset applied to any part of life.

His apartment was full of various electronic elements, catalogues and reference books. Pity that he is not with us anymore, he would really appreciate my hobby and line of work, so much to share...

 

The vice does not have any name or logo on it, and looks really well made (especially by soviet standards). There is a first letter of his last name hand-engraved on it - to prevent his co-workers from "borrowing" that hand vice. That hints that this tool was not widely available, and was valuable enough to be protected this way (nobody will "borrow" a tool that everybody has).

Doubt that the tool is made by him personally (he was definitely not into making tools, metal working or woodworking), but it could easily be something custom-made. Any sort of factory-produced tool in USSR had an identification number and a price tag stamped on it. This one has nothing similar, so probably not produced on a large scale. 

Here are similar hand vices of a factory-produced kind (not mine, pictures from the internet). Note a different handle and an identification number:

 

 

Old tools are an interesting angle to learn about history, work culture, industry of the time...

[Mike Y]

Finally got an hour to work on a model - light up some candles, prepare tea, nice music, relax..

 

Still fine-tuning that pesky notches.  Sorry for receptiveness of the photos, but want to share because this turned out to be a tricky task. I should have made the transom assembly in advance, probably...

 

Broke the scalpel handle to make it easier to bend it - that is the only way I found to make this cut:

[michael mott]

Thank you Mike for your informative reply.

 

Michael

[Liberto]

Hello Mike Y. It's a very elegant line model at the same time as nice, the choice is a great success, I like it a lot ... and the work you're doing extraordinary.
You "HAPPY" with capital letters. A hug, Liberto

[Mike Y]

Hello Mike Y. It's a very elegant line model at the same time as nice, the choice is a great success, I like it a lot ... and the work you're doing extraordinary.

You "HAPPY" with capital letters. A hug, Liberto

Liberto, thank you! It is really nice to hear that from a man behind such a masterpiece as yours! Hug!