HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...

[dafi]

...hihihihihihi...

 

As a starter just something, most of you should know:

 

http://nygeschichte.blogspot.de/2014/06/lunch-atop-skyscraper-building-search.html

By the way a very interesting german site about the picture where it was taken and the story about.

 

But back to my own roost. Then there were three ... 

 

 

... seen by the german Assembly Act it already is a mob, but I needed more ...

 

 

... so knocked off some heads and limbs, twisted bodies ...

 

 

... and reassembled them. Some got some coattails ...

 

 

... and all a nice washing in 50 shades of dirty-white. And all these basically out of the three basic models :-)

 

In the meantime my small shipyard worker and his lovely assistant were on the quest for the perfect sea chest ...

 

 

... and looks like the quest was successful by the sparkle in her eyes :-)

 

XXXDAn

Edited May 18, 2015 by dafi

[dafi]

Some small thoughts about the life in between the guns.

 

First about the personal belongings of the sailors. Classically one thinks of the sailors chests. But in clearing for action maneuvering 800 chests into the hold? Logistically not the easiest task. Masefield reports that only officers were allowed a chest, for the sailors it was just a bag/kit.

 

A small trial shows, that only about 8 chests fit in the space but about 20 hammocks were positioned in this area ...

 

 

 

... so 1 man 1 chest is impossible and confirms Masefield. Also 800 bags are more easily cleared. In the empty space in between the chests still are missing some barrels of the ready to use provisions.

 

Then the thoughts about the benches: how to store them when not in use - as contemporary drawings show them with fix legs - and where did the mess store the things of daily use? Personal conclusion is to skip the benches and use the chests for stuff of daily use and for sitting - also shown in contemporary sources.

 

Masefield also reports that sometimes the sea bags were stowed in the orlop, possibly in the area of the carpenters walk and access being restricted to two times a day. I think could have worked for two deckers, but from breeding my own little maggots I have seen the space it takes - for my own taste a bit too much for a three decker with double the compliment. Space taken, that could otherwise been very useful especially on long voyages.

 

That is why I decided to test fit 20 bags in the area of each mess and it is easily fitted in between the hanging knees where there are no hammocks anyway.

 

 

 

And the stage is set :-)

 

XXXDAn

[ianmajor]

Dafi,

 

Interesting. I have seen references to the fact that sailing ships would take hours to maneuver in to position to engage other ships. I can see from your work and research that whilst this was being done a similar length of time would be needed to ready the decks for action. To be able to observe this must have been like watching a disturbed ants' nest!

[dafi]

Ok, time to take a seat :-)

 

 

 

In NMM is documented, that the marines were positioned in front of the gunroom on two deckers.

 

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/86584.html  ZAZ6793

 

The Trafagar Companion localises them on the Vic in front of the wardroom, means the middle deck. I checked and found that if all 120 marines were positioned just there, it would fill the area up to the mainmast. As the marines were also used to keep an eye upon the sailors, I split the group and positioned half of them in font of the gunroom, so the lower deck could be observed too. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And suddenly it gets packed :-)

 

 

Now just missing the food, not that the good mood tilts ;-)

 

XXXDAn

Edited May 16, 2015 by dafi

[gjdale]

That's incredible Daniel. You can almost hear the conversation, it's so life-like!

[amateur]

Incredible!

 

It looks quite cosy, this way. On the other hand, what when you are in the midst of the atlantic, wind force 8, waves of about 10 meters high.

Life must have been absolute hell in there..... What these little diorama's show -apart fom how things were don - is the degree of overcrowding in these ships....

 

Jan

[dafi]

"It looks quite cosy, this way."

 

... and dark and stifling and humid and oppressive and smelly and loud and claustrophobic and ...

Edited May 16, 2015 by dafi

[amateur]

Dark?

 

They are in the open air

 

Jan

[mtaylor]

You forgot... it's also very noisy.  There's a quote, which I am unable to find from Benjamin Franklin about a ship being like a prison... crowded, smelly, etc. but without the 'security'.  

 

Wonderful Daniel.   I just love the way this is coming alive and letting us see what it was like.

[Izzy Madd]

I don't know how much truth there is in it. But I've seen images of mess tables with the obligatory square place setting (3square meals) and bench seating. Hung from the roof beams so that when the ship is in rough water everything can swing and so less is lost on the floor.

 

Like I say I only remember this and cannot confirm it.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Izzy Madd

[popeye the sailor]

awesome Daniel.........so much imagination in such a small space! 

[gjdale]

You forgot... it's also very noisy.  There's a quote, which I am unable to find from Benjamin Franklin about a ship being like a prison... crowded, smelly, etc. but without the 'security

.....and with the option of drowning......

[dafi]

Thank you all, very appreciated!

 

And the birthday party continious. On Modellmarine, Germany´s best known daily Marine-Blog there is a short introduction into anchor handling:-)

 

http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4238:hms-victory-ankerhandhabung-auf-einem-linienschiff-1100-von-daniel-fischer&catid=491:daniel-fischer

 

Please find the Google translation here:

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=de&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26view%3Darticle%26id%3D4238:hms-victory-ankerhandhabung-auf-einem-linienschiff-1100-von-daniel-fischer%26catid%3D491:daniel-fischer&usg=ALkJrhg8ngeoPyT-nnQFrEo3I02RztiPnQ

 

Part 2 probably on Thursday :-)

 

Heep-Heep-Hurrayh, DAniel

Edited May 19, 2015 by dafi

[foxy]

Keep it up Daniel, can smell the broth from here.

 

Marines only had short dress coats, the tails were for officers.

 

Unless they are earlier than 1800, then fusiliers were stationed onboard.

 

but lovely detail.

 

frank

[Izzy Madd]

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works but most sea chest had rope beckets for handles didn't they? So that a single rope could then be threaded through one handle of say twentyor more then safely hauled aboard. As the becket would flex to hang best and would be fixed as each sailor made his own so as to know his stuff didn't end up in the harbour. And while they are a swine to make they are extremely rugged with there four or more layers of differing materials from leather to sailcloth as well as rope.

[amateur]

You mean as on frayedknotart.com? http://www.frayedknotarts.com/beckets.html

Would be interesting to see Dafi splce such rope beckets on this scale. I guess he can, but doubt whether he is willing:)

 

Jan

Edited May 20, 2015 by amateur

[dafi]

Thank you guys for the feedbacks and the open eyes!

 

@ Frank: Thank you, the scissors already are working their way through the compliment :-)

 

@ Izzy: Beches still will be hanged on the inboard side - but still missing the beam ...

 

@ all: was the out side fixed on the hull or was it hanged too?

 

@ Izzy and Jan: Thank you for the nice pictures of the handles. I actually decided on the wooden handles, as the rope ones were too invisible. Will be a nice detail on the show chests.

 

Actually the pictures of Bray show plenty of chests used for people sitting around.

 

Cheers, Daniel

[Izzy Madd]

From these images it seem just about everyone is right as there are bit of just about all comments within them.

 

From the hanging, but hinged swinging table, through both becketed and wooden handle boxes to benches and more. It's no surprise there are so many thoughts on the subjects.

 

 

 

[dafi]

Even a better source is Bray´s album in NMM

 

Shows chest everywhere and being seated on :-)

 

 

[lambsbk]

Daniel: great pics. In the second photo the short bench is positioned to cross over the truss wheels. Could it be both views are correct depending on the deck furniture or guns nearby?

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I have read that the ponytails were covered with the skin of an eel. I am sure it made perfect sense at the time.

[dafi]

For that there will be no mutiny because of the empty plates, here is the proposal for the menu, according to historical sources:

 

First Course


Hors D'Oeuvres


Oysters

Second 

 

Course


Consommé Olga


Cream of Barley



 

Third Course


Poached Salmon with Mousseline Sauce, Cucumbers



 

Fourth Course


Filet Mignons Lili


Saute of Chicken, Lyonnaise

Vegetable Marrow Farci

 



Fifth Course


Lamb, Mint Sauce


Roast Duckling, Apple Sauce


Sirloin of Beef, Chateau Potatoes

Green Pea


Creamed Carrots


Boiled Rice


Parmentier & Boiled New Potatoes



 

Sixth Course


Punch Romaine



 

Seventh Course


Roast Squab & Cress



 

Eighth Course


Cold Asparagus Vinaigrette

 



Ninth Course


Pate de Foie Gras


Celery



 

Tenth Course


Waldorf Pudding


Peaches in Chartreuse Jelly


Chocolate & Vanilla Eclairs


French Ice Cream

 

 

*dream*

 

XXXDAn

[mtaylor]

What???  No gruel???  No salt beef?? No salt pork???  No ship's biscuit with extra portions of weevil?????     I'm appalled.     NO.. make that I'm aghast!!!! 

[popeye the sailor]

after a repast like that.........I don't think I'd be able to move       you feed your men very well....is there a sign up sheet?

[Izzy Madd]

after a repast like that.........I don't think I'd be able to move       you feed your men very well....is there a sign up sheet?

There is always a place for volunteers. The only thing is you'd have to loose all but a few grams of body weight AND put up with the screams of other volunteers being redesigned and being redesigned by Barron Von Frankenmodeler. I just wonder if he's got the obligatory Igor hump and all in the right scale

 

No offence intended Dafi. Sorry if I have.

[popeye the sailor]

what hump?

[dafi]

And what does one do, if one has a bunch of hungry marines waiting for food and sitting in front of the gun room? Of course, one should take precautions.

 

Preparations include getting the equipment ready ...

 

 

... and the arms too ...

 

 

 

 

... and to dress the guards.

 

 

Ok I missed the epaulets ...

 

... but I shortened the tails according to the 1803 regulations. Just the officers had long tails, thanks to Foxy for that detail!

 

 

 

 

 

Larger than life :-)

 

And very important: place them in front of the gun room ...

 

 

 

 

... for that the Haute Volée can stay in peace and quiet. And the long tails of the to red men in the background clearly show. Yes, we are officers :-)

 

Cheers, DAniel

[amateur]

We dont use 1cent pieces on this side of the border, so igot myself a tictac to get the dimensions right....

It's becoming frightening....

 

Jan

[Beef Wellington]

Dafi, you may have answered this elsewhere so I apologise if you have....but...what are you going to do when the lower deck is 'done'?  Are you going to somehow keep the upper decks open so the detail can be see or will this be buried like the Pharaohs in the pyramids?  Love your work, you should consider publishing book with your photos to bring the Georgian navy to life.

[dafi]

Thank you Jason and Jan.

 

The return question is: Will the lower gun deck ever be 'done' ...

 

;-)

 

XXXDAn

Edited May 28, 2015 by dafi