San Francisco 2 by Shaz - FINISHED - Artesania Latina - Wood

[Shazmira]

Ok, need some help. I tore all the rigging apart after I did the lower stuff because when I went to put up the upper shrouds I had nothing to attach the bottom dead eyes to. The instructions had failed to mention I needed to drill holes in the crow's nest for them.

So...I drilled all my holes when I had everything apart....imagine that, I managed to still drill them in the wrong place. Ok, so on the main mast, I had little problem with a dremel, getting the holes where they need to be while everything is still in place, all is going well. On the foremast? not so good. for whatever reason, the drill kept slipping forward or back instead of just drilling through.....following me so far. Now I have a mess, I can't slip the dead eye line through the holes to tie off on the lower shrouds, because I don't exactly have holes...instead I have missing chunks of the metal "ring" so,  I have no way to secure the deadeyes in place.  I REFUSE TO RIP OUT ALL MY NEW RIGGING, but what or how can I attach these dead eyes, so I can install the upper shroud lines. Is there something I can buy at a hardware store that will fill in the mess I made of the metal crow's nest, and then attempt to drill proper holes through this substance? Could I attempt to fill everything with solder and then drill through that? could I overlay the "ring" on the crow's nest with wood and drill holes through it?

Suggestions?

[Script]

Robbyn,

 

I'm sure the experts have better ideas but since they mustn't be on at the moment, I'll provide my two cents. I hesitate to say this but a picture may help them understand exactly how things are. On another note, there are myriad 'substances' available at a hardware store that will adhere to metal and can be tooled, drilled, etc. The store folks might have a good suggestion. Also, even though CA has a bad name here, it does bond just about anything to anything if used properly.....a little bit does more than a lot. I've used CA to attach 'rope' to places where I've missed drilling a hole and have yet to have it fail. Again, I'm anything but an expert ....

Good luck and don't give up!

 

Cheers,

 

Jim

[augie]

Would be nice to see a photo.  But if you need something that attaches to metal and can be drilled, there is a product called JB Weld.  You spread it on, like an epoxy and, once it's set it acts like a (soft) metal.  Many hobby stores carry it or a good hardware store.

[augie]

Here's a link for it:

 

http://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-weld/

[robert1965]

Hello Robbyn,

 

If I have understood correctly, you mean this.

 

you can make a wooden plate, glue it in the crow's nest and paints in the color of the crows nest.

Now you can dril the new holes in it again.

 

 

maybe even an option to create a new one.

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2013 by robert1965

[mtaylor]

Robbyn

 

Augie and Robert have the only two viable ways of fixing this from the way you describe it.  For drilling metal.. you need to "dimple" it with punch to keep the bit from wandering.  Installed on a mast, the dimpling is almost impossible without breaking the mast. 

 

If you decide to try the JB Weld, dimple it with a nail point before it hardens.   And definitely follow the instructions on surface prep and application.  I've used the stuff on engine blocks and it works great if the instructions are followed.  If they aren't... well, it wasn't a pretty sight. 

[lamarvalley]

This suggestion might get me voted off the island but there is another way. After all, accuracy at this point is relative eh?

Rather than go thru the crows nest with holes perhaps the solution is to stay outside the circle and go up between the disc and under the outer and upper ring. Tie off on the last ratline in the lower section, angle out and then under the ring and up. The lower deadeye of the block would be positioned above the lip but below the outer ring. Does this make sense? It would angle the connecting shrouds a lot more than going thru holes but I'm not thinking it would be horribly different. YOu could even slice a small groove in the disc portion to seat your line from the lower shroud. ??

It also would move things along and as this is (for me) a training vessel I have adapted more than my share in the learning. The next build will benefit from old Florencia.

[Shazmira]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I was at work and had no access to photos at the time, sorry. Robert, your solution might work...by issue is that I have all those shroud lines from the lower shrouds in the way, so placing a whole new "disk" in the bottom of the crow's nest is not a viable option without tearing out all my rigging. I was thinking just making a "ring" in two pieces I could place over the bad holes on the outer edge of that ring. I would pre-drill the wood before installing, that way I could use the wooden holes as a guide to go through what metal is left.

Randy, I know what you mean about just wanting to move on...trust me I am there! However, I am not picturing what you mean exactly, can you clarify any?

[Shazmira]

Ok, I decided to go with the simple fix. I am placing a strip of wood over the holes on the ring and filing it to shape. Then I will stain and hopefully be able to have enough support to hold the dead eyes. not a perfect fix by any means, but with all the rigging lines, it wont be visible to most people anyway

[src]

Robbyn,

Not sure if I understand the situation correctly but your disk idea may not work, I would be concerned that when you hit the metal going through your predrilled holes you may follow the old holes in the metal. Your best bet might be the JB Weld others mentioned. at work we use a product called PolyGem to work all sorts of "magic." I undersand there is a consumer version used here call Sculpy. That ma be another option.

 

Edit - looks like we replied over each other and you have a solution

Sam

Edited September 12, 2013 by src

[Shazmira]

thanks Sam, I will give the wood a try tonight, and if the drill bit does what you say, then I can pick up something at the hardware store tomorrow on the way home and give that a try.

[lamarvalley]

Clarify... sure... with pictures of course. The idea, again, not an accepted rigging solution but one of convenience at this point is as shown. Instead of going thru holes the connecting shroud stays outside of the disc (blue lines with deadeyes etc.).

[Shazmira]

Thanks Randy, now that makes perfect sense. The only difficulty I foresee with that method is getting everything all at the same distance since it would be hard to use any sort of jig to hold the deadeyes (both upper and lower) in place. I put some wood over the "ring" last night with some CA, and I am letting it cure until tonight. I will also stop at the hardware store on the way home and find some sort of metal filler and try to fill in the badly drilled holes.

When I originally drilled the holes I put them in that outer ring, which I later realized was the wrong place. It is also possible that I could just go ahead and use those holes anyway...I am not sure that having my deadeyes a 1/2 inch further out on the crow's nest will really be that big of an issue. As we both know, historical accuracy is out the window on this kit anyway.

[newbuilder101]

Oh no! I might have made the top into a Frisbee at this point! Sorry about the "mishap" - it would be very frustrating I'm sure. Your SF looks great, so keep going - the finish line really is out there.

If your idea works - great!

If you go with Randy's idea, you could add a band of wood over the lines to give the appearance of them going through the wood (I would probably file slight notches to accommodate the lines). As Randy said: "not an accepted rigging solution", but one that would maybe give the illusion of being correct.

[sport29652]

I second Randy's idea. I was going to do it myself before I decided to drill.

[Shazmira]

Just so no one thinks I have been slacking off....

the upper shrouds are up finally on the main mast

 

And the rat lines begin

 

Since I have such a strong (bad) reaction to CA, I am using different glue, so all of this is a slower process then I like. I have to tie, then give the glue time to set before I can move on...at this rate, maybe the main mast will be done by next weekend

[lamarvalley]

Looks good Robbyn and perhaps most importantly.... it is PROGRESS!!! :)

I have used CA and it's hard to beat it's quick action but I found a flat lacquer (Testors -tiny little jars from hobby lobby) works pretty well and sort of melts into the line. Not nearly as quick as CA, what is after all, but I found it's a tad faster than white glue.

[Jay 1]

Looks good Robbyn--glad you found a solution for the deadeyes/shrouds! Fabric glues (gs-hypo & etc.) are good alternatives, too. They dry fairly fast and usually are clear. I like the long alligator-looking clips you're using--what are they please?

 

Thanks for the photos and glad things are moving ahead for you! Oh, yeah probably more rain is headed your way--we're getting it again today...

 

Jay

[sport29652]

It looks like you found a good fix Robbin. Just a few more knots and the rat lines are behind you

[Shazmira]

Jay, they are called alligator clips, but if you are referring to the other 3 in that pic, those are hemostats. Best dang thing around for holding string tight!!! Used by doctors and surgeons to hold things securely, I wish I had a dozen more...only have the three you see in the pic.

 

I am using the gs-hypo glue now, but my lines are so heavily waxed, that it takes forever to dry....going to buy rope from the Syren company on future builds!!

 

My fix was to buy some insta-weld putty. I just filled all the holes I had drilled, and reformed the metal where my bit had chewed up all the edges. I let it cure over night, then correctly drilled my holes. I found if I set the ship on the floor and let craig hold it for me, then by standing above it with the dremel I could get good leverage and drill straight down through the rings where I needed to go.

[popeye the sailor]

interesting way to solve a problem.........it reminds me of when I was hanging pictures.  the brads I was using were too small for my big fingers,  so I had the admiral hold them in place for me.   it was going well,  until she saw the hammer........she pulled her hand back off the wall.  I asked her if she trusted me..........before we knew it all the pictures were hung.

 

you didn't just  'let'  him hold your ship........you trusted him,  and between the two of you,  you got the job done!   I'd say.....a job well done at that as well    your progress looks great........shrouds and dead eyes....nicely done!   great repair!

[Jay 1]

Thanks Robbyn--I couldn't quite tell if they were hemostats. You're right, they're awesome (I collected a few more after the initial stitches were put in my hand prior to surgery--my smart sister asked for them...lol)! Would love to find long, no teeth, light weight clips--perfect for rigging! Good-o on the putty--looks like it worked out great!

 

Jay

[Sjors]

Hi Robbyn,

 

I was following the discussion about the upper deadeyes…...

I have them also, so maybe I can use it what I see…..

I'm happy for you that you are now at the ratlines again 

I don't have to do it alone anymore…...

And if you can find the time…a overview picture of the SF ?

 

[gjdale]

Great to hear you solved your little problem there Robbyn. Just an observation on ratlines and glue - you don't need to wait for the glue to dry on one set before moving on to the next. I used diluted white PVA on mine and had no problem doing it this way.

[Shazmira]

Gee I posted this last night, but today the post has disappeared hmmmmmmme thinks the gnomes, wabbits and spiders have been up to no good

Finished the upper shroud on the main mast last night. Not tickled pink by it, I personally think they are not spaced far enough apart. However, with all the issues I already had, I am not even considering ripping them out and redrilling anything. I don't think I have enough metal left of my crow's nest as a foundation. Re0doing the crow's nests themselves would require a tearing out of the lower shrouds as well....so it aint happening!

Not my best work, but the SF is that much closer to being completed and she will still hold a special place on the shelf as a learning project. I can only hope to aspire to doing better on the next build!

[augie]

I think the upper shrouds breathe life into her.  Looking forward to the rest.

[Jay 1]

Robbyn, here are a few things that are so great about first builds: We learn new skills and subject matter, we discover our strengths and areas for improvement as model shipwrights, we meet and make new friends, we can share what we've learned with others, and so much more. They also can open our eyes to how we treat ourselves: Would we tell to someone else what we say to ourselves about our builds? I once heard a long time ago that a miracle is a change in one's perspective. Your build looks great--look at all the positives that its brought into your life! I'm willing to betcha all those far outweigh a few minor hiccups. Yep, these first builds are awesome, and it's great to see you embracing yours--well done, hand buddy!

 

Jay

[popeye the sailor]

on the site that I moderate,  I would give the same advice.  unless the repair is an easy one,  that doesn't require a lot of tearing down,  I would say to leave it and move on.  life is too short,  and it wouldn't be good if the repair went south for some reason or another.  what you have learned here,  will benefit you on the next build......

 

you still have the fore mast to step,  and the yards to do.........perhaps after all this is done,  you'll find that it doesn't really look that bad at all.   I think you've done a splendid job,  in spite of all that's gone on,  in a short period of time

[Walter Biles]

Robbyn,

 

I have a possible solution for the next time you need to drill a hole in something where it wants to wander.  I use a sharp pointed rotary file bit (shaped like a christmas tree) for my dremel first to start the dimple for the later drill bit.  It stays put better because it is so sharp on the tip and the file will widen the hole as it goes.  I even had success where I had to drill on the edge of a glue line in wood trying to make my ships wheel.  Just for your consideration.   

 

Walter Biles

Edited September 20, 2013 by Walter Biles

[themadchemist]

Personally I think the upper shrouds look fine. To me they typically look more vertical and less cone shaped then the lowers anyway. There is really not alot of place extra to go out on the crowsnest either without going around, which I would think would give them a bowed out appearance. I really think they look odd to you because the yards and running rigging lines aren't there yet.

 

Wow, looking at your San Francisco forced me to pull my kit from the shelf. I keep forgetting just how small 1:90 scale is compared to the DSotM's 1:50.

Here's a question for you Robbyn, I'm planning to replace the wood for the decking and the kit provides the 0.6mm thick stuff for planking. Would switching to 1 mm or even 1.25 mm thick planks cause a problem in the spacing of things and cause a huge issue? My biggest worry is cannon/gunport positioning.