Blue Ensign

I'll have a look thro' my photo collection Grant, and see if I have any shroud cleat photos whch may help to assist with scale adjustment for your Victory Cheers, M

First class work Gary, love the finish, it looks like it could function as a stove. Well done. B.E.

You’re welcome Brenticus and thank you for looking in and for your generous comments. The crewmen were ‘N’ scale Railway figures modified to suit. These are widely available from online sources, I recall I got most of mine off e-bay. The sheep were also ‘N’ scale from the Faller range. Re the sea base, I wanted a fairly placid effect simply as a vehicle in which to place the model, but really there is plenty of scope for artistry in sea making. Certainly in terms of a sailing ship there would not be the pronounced wake created by fast prop driven ships, and paintings are probably as good a guide as any. Here’s a link within MSW on the subject that may give you some ideas. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/3952-dioramas-water-related-photos-hints-tips-and-videos/ Enjoy your Superbe when she arrives. Cheers, B.E.

I've used that thread idea for the top chain link in the past Ray and it works just fine. If you then paint the thread matt black it fills in the lay of the line and improves the 'metal' look to the arrangemment. Cheers, B.E.

You have been busy Grant, and all to very good effect. M.

A great mini project that Gary, the stove does look wonderful, I trust it won't be completely lost to view when fitted on the Upper Deck. B.E.

Great job on those scuppers Bob, and a very wise decision to tackle them from both sides, simply too scary to try and drill thro' and hope the angle is correct. I'm all for faking it if it looks good. Is one of the scuppers relative to the pump dales, on Pegasus that one is slightly larger than the others. B.E.

I would have to agree it makes no sense to cut the wale which was an important and integral strengthening of the ship. None of the Admiralty plans I have indicate such a feature, and in reality any decoration certainly on a sixth rate would have been painted on, and wouldn't have lasted very long in that position. B.E.

Looks good to me Jason B.E.

Hi Grant, just to re-visit the question of Yard Tackles:- I came across this post by dvm on the Longridge Victory. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/968-hms-victory-model-by-longridge-science-museum/ You can see the yard tackles hooked into eye bolts in the channels on a couple of the photos. Cheers M.

Impressive paint job Kriss, a great model in the making, look forward to more progress. B.E.

Beautiful work on the head Matti, very nicely done. B.E.

Hi Mike, re the White pennant, it is the same as the Union version at the hoist - a cross of St George, the rest is plain white. About moving the Union Flag from the Jack, it was suspended from the Fore Topmast Stay, not to be confused with the Foremast Backstay, and only during the Battle. I think it would be unusual to display the Union flag in this way on a bare stick model, but obviously the choice is yours. B.E.

That looks like a fish Davit you're fitting there Michael, is a cut out to be made on the Port side to allow for corresponding use? B.E.

Nice job on the Great Cabin Vitus, a touch of luxuy for the Commander. Do you intend the partition and fit out the Bed Space and Coach also? Those carriages are a great improvement, I never thought the metal ones very convincing, and you will also be able to attach the necessary ironwork. B.E.

That's bad news Grant, hope the fix holds. It's an ever present risk once the jib and tophamper are rigged. Trouble is you will always be nervous of that join throughout the rest of the build. Been there myself in the past but couldn't live with the tension and had to get the riggers in to re-do the t'gallant in the end. M.

Hello Mike, I think I can help with the flags. Nelson was a Vice Admiral of the White, and certainly at Trafalgar Victory would have worn the White Ensign at the Gaff as you have indicated. The St George's Cross was the rank flag for a Vice Admiral of the White and was worn at the Fore topmast head. The long pennant was worn at the Main topmast head and was kept flying at all times a ship was in commission. Whether the Union Pennant as you show, or the White Pennant as applicable to Nelson, was worn is not certain, although personally I would go with a White Pennant. The Union Flag was usually only worn at the Jack staff when a ship was in harbour, and I would certainly have it at the Jack Staff on a bare stick model. At Trafalgar however, Nelson ordered all ships to suspend the jack from the Fore topmast stays, to aid identification. Hope this helps. B.E.

What a beautiful clean deck Bob, great stuff B.E.

Hi Grant, I agree - Longridge is suggesting that there are two outer tricing line blocks. This is what Marquardt has to say (18th Century Rigs and Rigging) The Outer Tricing line was spliced into the strop of the Upper (LongTackle) block, ran thro’ a lead block fastened to the yard one pendant length inside the yardarm, then thro’ another at Catharpins height lashed to the shrouds, to belay finally in the lower shrouds (shroud cleat) The tricing line was sometimes found running from the first lead block up to the top and made fast to a cleat. A thimble was spliced into the end of the Inner tricing line, and this was slipped over the hook on the lower tackle block. The hauling part passed thro’ a lead block beside that for the outer tricing line in the shrouds, and belayed like the outer tricing line to a cleat in the lower shrouds. As far as Victory is concerned Longridge show the tricing lines belayed around the first two shrouds forward on the Fore and Main Masts. It makes sense to me that such light lines would reasonably be belayed to shroud cleats on the Lower Shrouds, and from a modelling point of view this presents a neat solution, if the tricing lines are to be rigged. Hope this helps, B.E.

She looks wonderful Jason, and those Mast tops are excellent, nice to see the overall shots of her. B.E.

Looking forward to it Robert, Happy New Year. B.E.

What a little beauty Ron, I envy you, I'm still dithering about trying to decide about the Pinnace for Pegasus. Best wishes for 2014. B.E.

Nice shot of the deck guns Ray, and of you with the QM2 in the background. As a young boy I remember seeing the original pass the IoW on its way to Southampton, impressive, never forgotton that view. Best wishes for 2014. B.E.

Nice progress Gary, the deck option looks good, and I love the pump photos, a great little diorama on their own. If I may comment on the frapping of gun tackles, it is less likely that the gun deck heavy guns would be run out and frapped, as the ports would be usually closed unless the guns were being prepared for action, where faking down of the side tackles would probably be the practical arrangement. But whose to say that in a harbour situation with the ports open to allow airing, the guns wouldn't sometimes be secured by frapping. The situation would be different with the lighter guns in open non lidded ports John Harland in his book Seamanship in the age of Sail includes a chapter on securing the guns. He makes the point that the Upper deck guns were ordinarily secured in the ‘run out’ position and shows the side tackles frapped. This is the arrangement I adopted on my Pegasus build. B.E.

Hope you recover quickly Grant, hell, you've got a rigging job to do. For completeness this is a copy of the reply I have made re the brace pendants/yard tackles that you also did as a separate post. Hi Grant, When in doubt I always refer back to Steel, writing in 1794. This is what he has to say: YARD-TACKLE-PENDENTS are next put over the yard-arm, with an eye, as the former. In the lower end is spliced a double block, connected by its fall to a single one, strapped with a hook and thimble, to hoist in the boats, &c. YARD-TACKLES are sometimes carried aft and hooked to eye-bolts in the side, and used to prevent too great a strain on the braces in bad weather. Lees also covers yard tackle pendants in his book: Comprising a pendant and long tackle block, the pendant being a quarter of the yards length. The tackle fall comprised the pendant block and a single hooked block. When not in use the tackle was hooked to the Futtock shrouds, and made up along the yard (by the use of a tricing line.) This is how I have always chosen to display the yard tackles. On Victory today recent photos show the Starboard yard tackles hooked to the Futtock Shrouds and the port tackles are shown extended and attached to the lifting rings of a boat. Brace Pendants This is what Steel has to say again writing in 1794. BRACE-PENDENTS are next put over the yard-arms with an eye, as above; in the lower end is a single block, through which the brace reeves. Sometimes, in the navy, and oftener in the merchant service the block is lashed to the yard-arm without a pendent. TOPSAIL-YARDS. BRACE-PENDENTS are next put over the yard, as on the lower ones. The fore-topsail-braces reeve through the block in the pendent, and then through a block lashed on each side the collar on the main-stay, a little below the fore-braces; the standing-part makes fast to the stay below the block with a hitch, and seized. The leading-part leads from the block upon the collar of the stay through a block lashed on the stay abreast the fore hatchway, and through a block strapt with a thimble into an eye-bolt in the aft-part of the forecastle, and belays round an iron pin in the boat-skid. MAIN-TOPSAIL-BRACES reeve through the block in the pendent, and the standing-part makes fast to the collar of the mizen-stay. The leading-part reeves through a block in the span round the mizen-mast-head below the hounds, and leads down through a sheave-hole in the mizen-topsail-sheet-bits, abaft the mizen-mast, and belays there. THE CROSS-JACK-YARD BRACE-PENDENTS are stopt to the yard about four feet within the cleats at the yard-arm; the brace then reeves through the block in the pendent. The standing-part of the starboard brace makes fast to one of the middle shrouds on the larboard side with a hitch, and the end stopt; and the leading-part reeves down through a single-block lashed to the same shroud a little below the catharpins; it then leads through a truck or double-block seized to the middle shroud, and belays round a pin in the fife-rail, and the larboard braces the contrary. This is the link to the online work of Steel http://hnsa.org/doc/...part7.htm#pg201 It is interesting to note that Monamy Swaine in his painting of Victory at Sea in 1793 shows Brace pendants used. Lees writing about Brace Pendants says on the lower yards they were fitted until 1815, and on the Topsail/T’gallants until 1805.* *I have a slight niggle as to whether this is a typo error. Marquardt (18th Century Rigs and Rigging) indicates that the attaching of the brace blocks directly to the yard using the dog and bitch connection became official in the Royal Navy in 1815. Victory currently has brace pendants. Older photos of Victory show her without pendants, and Bugler writing in 1966 shows no brace pendants in his rigging plans etc. It is the case that certain features on Victory extant in the days of Longridge and Bugler, were changed prior to the Bi-centenary in 2005, removal of the stern davits, changing the name detail on the stern etc; it may well have been thought that 1805 was too early to fit the dog and bitch connection. Although unofficial changes were often made a fair time in advance of the official adoption, Steel's comment in 1794 that ‘sometimes’ in the Navy the block is lashed to the yard without a pendant, suggest to me that it was the exception rather than the norm at that time. It does however give some leeway to choose not to fit brace pendants. Personally on balance I would fit pendants until the post Trafalgar era. Hope this helps. B.E.