Chuck

Uh...not exactly

From the same Goodwin book.  It just wasnt illustrated.  There is a whole section about the margin plank. The bottom drawing does show and list the margin plank but only the later nibbed variety.  In actual practice this is how it was done back then.

Here is an excerpt...

"  Parallel to the ships side and fayed to the waterway was a strake of planking known as the margin plank.  The function of this was to prevent the normal straight deck planking from being tapered to a fine angle where it met the curvature of the ship's side at the fore and after ends.  The margin plank was thus fashioned to receive the butts of those planks.  It was stipulated that no plank was to be 'joggled" into the margin plank unless the length of its tapered edge was more than twice the width of the plank, and that the plank was only to be tapered or "snaped" to half its width at the butt end.  The margin plank was the same thickness as the deck plank,  but one and a half times as wide."

This describes very late 18th century nibbing practice and early 19th.  Prior to this, 1760's... rather than nib into the margin or waterway,  they hooked the planks as shown in the contemporary models I posted which is as primary a source as you can get.  The "hooked" planks instead sitting against and alongside  the margin.  They were also tapered and curved a bit at the fore and aft ends of the deck.  This was done to keep the margin/waterway in tact among other reasons.  The rules are out there..you just have to find them.  Primary sources are the key.  Secondary sources are all over the map with omissions and simplifications.  Goodwin is an excellent source.  Sadly  Mondfeld is not held in the same way.  Although I wish that it was indeed the way Roberts described..it would be much less hassle.

To further complicate about actual deck planking practices from this time, other details are rarely illustrated but can be seen on contemporary models and described in primary texts.  Those include the anchor style deck planks that sometimes ran along the bulwarks a couple of strakes inboard. Also from Goodwin..

" fitted two strakes of either top and butt or anchor stock 4ft from each side of the ship.  The function of this was to resist any athwartships compression that occurred when the vessel was in heavy seas."

One other rule....not often illustrated  "no plank butts between the hatches and comings"   A single length of deck plank was laid between the hatches with no need for butt seams even though this may have disrupted the normal  three or four butt shift pattern.

Depending on how historically accurate you want to get with the details,there are many rules like this and no one source really contains them all.  But once again, luckily for us... most have been compiled in the fully framed series.  Makes our lives much easier. This secondary source contains more of these rules in one place than any other.    So unless you want to poke around and gather the many many other resources...both primary and secondary for these individual nuggets,  I highly recommend the series.

I am going to paint my windlass red... just in case you are wondering.   It would be easier to do before you assemble the individual completed sections of the drum.   It looks like a promising start so far.  Yes it was designed so that you could use the laser char to gauge when you are done beveling.  It should all be gone from the edge when you are done...but just barely.   I also icluded an extra face or two for some segments.  But let me know if you need additional for boo-boos.

I just used an emery board that was 1 inch wide with a medium grit to create the bevel while holding the faces between two fingers.  Basically eye-balling it.  Your method seems much more accurate.  But if you do plan on painting it red...you can fill the few cracks and seems that may be there.

Chuck

That looks so familiar....looks great.

Yes indeed that is the Model shipways solid hull kit, Essex....I think we have one in the Gallery....Here are some comparison images...just the paint colors are different.   From the early 60's or 70's and possibly even the early 80's.

It was made in two scales...1/8" scale was the first version and that could be as old as the 50's but this is clearly the 5/32" version.  It may have been built later because I see some of the earmarks spelled out in Jim Roberts book on building the kit.  Which buy todays standards was just a min practicum on building the kit.  Many of the details on your old model are dead ringers for what he wrote about.  The figurehead is also a dead give away...you see,  the metal casting...lead at the time was very soft.  The hatchet or axe the Indian was supposed to hold in his hand was always bent or broken and had to be replaced.  It is why it may appear slightly different on models that were completed.  But the body is a perfect copy with its flowing cape.  I may even have one laying around the shop.  

Comparison

Discussions are good 

I think Jim simplified it for model builders

Keep in mind the use of the term Margin plank in my instructions...it is yet another simplification.  Essentially the waterway at this time was a very wide plank that had a raised lip on its outer edge....one piece

To simply it and model it in two pieces,   I refer to it in the Confederacy instructions as two separate parts....the waterway being a thin rounded piece placed over what I describe as "the margin plank".   The thin piece becoming the raised lip.   But essentially they were one piece and properly identified as the waterway...one piece....

I hope that makes sense.  I have never seen a rounded bow with deck planking that wasnt hook scarfed  or later nibbed into this waterway because it would create really thin pointy deck planks which are prone to rot very quickly.   If someone can help me explain it better that would be great.

A really great explanation and example can be found in Danny's log here

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/230-hms-vulture-by-dan-vadas-1776-148-scale-16-gun-swan-class-sloop-from-tffm-plans/page-5#entry5230

Wq3296...interesting but I have never heard of that before or seen any primary sources that show it done that way...without a margin plank that is...

Do you have any other sources besides the Jim roberts book.  At this early time I have always seen a margin plank (wide waterway plank) for English Frigates and larger.  For a Bermuda sloop I am not as certain....but I would include it.  Jim just breezed over the topic of deck planking in that book writing about a page and a half.  No illustrations or mention of time periods etc.  Or which decks.  I am also just talking about round bowed weather decks from the period...not a forecastle deck such as shown on ships like Bellona with a beakhead bulkhead.   That was handled slightly different across the flat end on the forward side of the focastle deck.   But the lower decks as far as know would have been scarfed and hooked as I have shown with a wide waterway/margin plank.   Jim Roberts was entirely too brief on the subject...But I would love to see additional sources about it.

See this image

There was no reason to use hooked planks on the forecastle deck above....however the lower decks I assumed were done just as described and shown in the earlier post of the frigate Minerva.   But the waterway/margin was very wide.  It is perfectly described in the Fully Framed series...Volume one for the lower decks and Volume two for the weather decks

Chuck

David Antscherl's  Swan series......Volume two I believe.   I am not sure if there is a how-to but he shows the layout clearly and talks about.  At any rate,  a fantastic reference to have for this period all around.   

I also showed how I do it in the instructions for the confederacy...

http://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Confed/Chapter10.pdf

Chuck

Nope...Just name it properly and you are good to go...A good name would be one like I posted below.

Civil War Ironclad, USS St. Louis - 1:24 POF - Gateway Model Shipcrafter's Guild

I am looking forward to it.

Chuck

Kieth 

Have a look at the images from the NMM website.   The planks werent nibbed at all around this time.  They were "hooked" alongside the margin plank.

See this image....also,  the planks were curved and tapered slightly at the bow.  You can see the curve here...

The second photo shows a hooked or scarphed end to the plank against the margin.

Both models are contemporary....and to the period we are discussing.  These are considered primary sources...any secondary sources written by Roberts,  Goodwin or anyone else is not nearly as weighted.  If I had to choose the more accurate...I would stick with the primary sources from the time period every time.  It is very hard to argue against those.

Chuck

I will make an adjustment to my materials sheet.

That little side to side difference wont matter.   I would try and just open the slots up evenly on both sides.  Use a sanding stick that is pretty large with some coarse sandpaper glued to it.   I just ordered a bunch of plywood so hopefully it will be the correct thickness. If time permits I may cut some sets if the thickness is OK.    Its midwest ply...not the 6mm stuff.  You must look for actual 1/4" thick stuff.

Dont forget to download the first chapter of the monograph online.   I just added it and plan to get the others written within a week or so until I am caught up with my progress thus far.  One important thing I always mention is for the builder to always measure the thickness of the ply before they start cutting.  This way they can make adjustments to the slots before they start making sawdust.  Its awful trying to find accurate good quality ply.   It looks good so far though....

Chuck

Ouch!!   Those are awful

Could be pau marfim.....

That is a fantastic start....

That looks fine Rusty.  Nice save on the gallery counter.   They are tricky buggers.   The hard part is making sure the angle is correct so the windows fit OK.    Luckily...if your windows for the galleries need some tweaking,  I can just make some adjustments and cut you new ones.  So dont fret about that.   All you would need to do is send me some templates with the correct angles.

Chuck

I have uploaded the Sultana practicum here.....

http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-build-and-practicums.php

Chuck

I will add the Phantom in a little while.  Once I find it...I know its here somewhere. 

If they dont put them back on the site I will fish around for the master CD;'s I have and place them somewhere on this site.

Chuck

Looking great Dan...Have a great vacation 

Chuck

Thanks Guys

Christian...I wont be plating the hull.   She probably was copper plated but few contemporary models including the Surly ...They were not plated.   The Surly model was painted with white stuff.   I couldnt find anything definitive about it so I am going to leave the hull as is.

Chuck

Thank you Alistair

Red is a very transparent color to paint with.   If you use thin coats it will be somewhat transparent.  I have many more coats and more sanding to get it where I want but it will most likely have some transparency.

I found some workshop time....so I finished planking the starboard side.  Its a big milestone but then I look at the port side and have to repeat the entire process, including the square tuck   But it all worked out very well.   Once the other side is finished I can start treenailing.  

The Square tuck....Thank goodness this isnt a real POF project.  Here is the simplified version.

The photo below shows the first beam added which to create teh base for the stern post.  It runs down the center of the square tuck so I can glue the stern post on later.  It is 1/8" thick and 7/32" wide.  The same width as the stern post

The same photo below shows the second timber....how I took a wider piece that was 1/8" thick.  I shaped it so the seam between the lower counter and this timber was very tight.   Then I measured and marked it so it would be 1/8" wide as well.  This will of course be repeated on the other side once it is planked.

The finished timber below.

Then it was time to create the side piece which will finish the square tuck frame....this was the hardest piece but not that difficult at all.   I just took a larger 1/8" thick piece of boxwood and shaped it to fit tightly against the two timbers I just just completed.  I tried to get real tight seams. At the same time,  it hangs off the side of the hull.  Then I traced the shape of the hull against the back of this piece.

Heres what the tracing looks like.  The piece was cut to shape on the scroll saw.

Then,  this piece was temporarily glued back in position with just a small dot of CA.   This was done because it will need to be removed after it is faired with the hull planking.  See below.  And as done before,  I drew another line to establish a 1/8" wide finished timber.  This was cut out and glued into position finishing the frame for the square tuck on this side of the hull.

Here is what it looks like.

Finally....it was planked inside with vertical planks the same width as the hull planking.  Tarred seams were simulated.   I was very careful to get very tight seams.   In actual practice these planks would be normal thickness and the ends resting in a rabbet along the edges of the square tuck frame.

In my case though,  I just faked it using planking that was actually 1/8" thick which is the same thickness as the frame.   It all worked out in the end.  I am quite pleased with the results as this is normally a really tough detail to model convincingly.   Now to touch up the red paint on the counter or maybe its just best to wait till the planking is all done.

I can now start planking the last belt  on the starboard side.

Thanks

Any art store will have the pinstripe tape.   Graphic arts tape...

Clinker planking may in fact be easier for you but in the case of the Cheerful it would just be wrong historically.  I find it difficult to clinker plank a hull.  I havent seen many hulls that are done properly or to my satisfaction...so I chose a carvel planked hull.  I think most model builders prefer this anyway.  Its what they are used to.

I think that little bit wont matter.  You may have to adjust the slot widths in the bulkheads and bulkhead former...but thats it.  The plans for example call for 1/16" thick planking....because its a readily available size....but because I am milling my own stock,  the planks are actually 3/64" thick.   That is closer to scale and easier to work with.   So feel free as I have done to change things up.   As long as you think ahead or shoot me the question before hand,  you should be good to go.  Again this is the beauty of a scratch build.  You have some flexibility as long as you think through the consequences.  Following the plans will do the trick...when you adjust any wood sizes...think about what you will need to adjust on the plans....but it may not even be needed.

Chuck

Yes but its easy enough to do the conversion....in fact there are many translators on the web for free.  You type in the imperial number and it gives you the metric equivalent.  If its close you will be good to go.  I wish I could do more but short of doing the translations myself for every part and material (which I wont do)   I dont see how it could cause a problem.   

Use this chart

http://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm

Couldnt you order your wood in in imperial measurements if they are being milled for you in the UK?  If I ask say Jeff to cut me stock at 3mm thick he will certainly do that.  Wouldnt a source in the UK do that too but in reverse?  If not,  just use the chart to convert before ordering.   But I cant take the time to do this many conversions.  You will have to print out the chart when ordering your wood and possibly order a ruler or two with imperial measurements on it for the project.  Then you are good to go.  All materials will be listed in the monograph with imperial sizes when I use them....so you will know how large to cut stuff by using your new imperial ruler of measurement.  All of my rulers have metric on one side and imperial on the other so I dont see why it causes a problem if you had one of these and used a conversion chart.  I do it all the time.

Chuck

I am not sure what you mean....wood list or materials list???   Since its a scratch project more or less there are no parts to inventory.  Except for those few I mentioned so far.

As far as a wood list goes...I do have a preliminary.  I wont know for certain until after I build her.  Its impossible to know before its built with 100% certainty.

The wood list I have used and stocked up on are as follows.  It should be very close. Remember that this is not a kit.

1/4" Ply 4' x 4'

All boxwood sheets are 24" long......and 3" wide

7/32" Boxwood sheet  2

1/4" ........1

1/8" ........2

5/32" .......2

3/16 .........5

1/16" .......3

1/32" .......3

.025 ........1

3/32" ........1 but maybe 2 sheets depending.

One 3/8" x 3/8"  strip for the lower mast 24" long

Basswood sheets....

1/32" ....two sheets

1/16" ...2 sheets