gjdale

I've been battling with a persistent virus for the past two weeks, so progress hasn't been as fast as I had hoped for this holiday period. That seems to be a regular pattern for me of late - too busy while working to get sick, so get sick as soon as I stop and relax! I have however, finished fitting out all of the yards for the Main mast, so they are ready for installation to the ship. Just the one pic to keep you-know-who happy I've also come across an interesting conundrum regarding the rigging of Victory that other Victory builders may be interested in. I spent several hours poring over documentation to try and work out the use of Yard Tackle Pendants and Brace Block Pendants. I consulted several sources, but my primary reference for any assertions here is Longridge. I also sent a PM to Gil Middleton to seek advice on his approach to this aspect - his reply is posted within Gil's own log (as we had a problem with the PM system), so I won't repeat it verbatim here. First up, as far as I can tell, Yard Tackle Pendants are only used on the lower yards of the Main and Fore Masts. Longridge talks of these in the text descriptions for each of the yards, and this is matched by the drawing of the Running Rigging by Campbell (Plan No. 7 in Longridge). Secondly, I don't believe Pendants were used for Braces except for the Cross Jack Yard. Longridge specifically states (pg 258), in his description of the Cross Jack Yard, that "Here is the only place in the ship where Brace pendants are employed." I also checked over McKay's AOTS book, and as vague as it is, it does seem to match Longridge as well, with the exception that it does not show brace pendants for the Cross Jack Yard. I got terribly confused by all of this as Antscherl (in TFFM) employs brace pendants on all yards, and although he shows the Yard Tackle Pendants, he doesn't say much about them. The Mamoli kit plans, as bad as they are, actually do match Longridge (now there's a turn up for the books!), with the exception of the Cross Jack Yard Brace Pendants, and belaying of the yard tackle pendants. I got further confused when I looked back over Gil's excellent log, where he has employed brace pendants on all of the upper yards. So I asked Gil about his sources and choices. Gil's response was (in essence) that the Jotika plans showed them this way, and that this matches his photographs of the actual ship (see Gil's log for these photos). He opined that Longridge was basing his version on the 1922 restoration and that this may have been different to the more recent restoration to (supposedly) the "Trafalgar" state of the ship. Gil also quite correctly points out that different Captains changed rigs to suit there personal preferences, so unless we can go back and interview Captain Hardy, we might never know for certain. In the meantime, Gil has chosen to stick with the Jotika/Trafalgar restoration version, and I have decided to stick with the Longridge version on the basis that if Longridge is wrong, then I'm happy to be wrong with him. I've also been confused by the belaying of the Fore Lower Yard Tackle Pendants. Longridge, in the text (pg 242), is quite vague saying, "The pendant...is a 7-in rope with its lower end spliced round a 13-in double block which is connected by its 3 1/2-in fall to a 13-in single block which hooks on to an eyebolt in the side of the deck." In the diagram (Plan No.7) "the side of the deck" seems to translate to the Fore Channel, and this matches the drawing in McKay (pg 109), though neither actually show the final belaying point clearly. In checking the text again, Longridge's Belaying Plan (Plan 10, pg 266) and his Table of Belaying Points (pg. 270) both show that it belays to the "7th timber head, side of forecastle". But this raises another question for me - how does the line get to this belaying point without going through the shrouds/ratlines and/or the hammock netting and consequently becoming fouled? It would make more sense to me to belay it on the Fore Channel, outside the shrouds, as seems to be indicated by all of the diagrams. Does anybody have an opinion on this? I hope to install the Main mast yards tomorrow.

Rusty, I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I would offer this additional thought for you. Turning very small wooden parts in a wood lathe, using hand held tools, is a very delicate (and difficult) operation as just a tad too much pressure will destroy the part in the blink of an eye. If you use a metal lathe, the tools are held in the machine and applied with great control, making the manufacture of small parts so much easier. So it's not a question of, "how much metal would I turn", but more one of, "how much control of the tool do I need?". I know the outlay cost is more, but you will remember the quality of the Sherline long after you have forgotten the price. Hope this helps.

Wonderful to see you back at MSW Doris; we have all missed you and your exquisite work. Thank you so much for these recent photos - what a delight! I do hope you are now over your health problems, and as others have said, ignore the small-minded jealous bigots - you have many friends and admirers of your work from all over the world, right here at MSW.

Well done Jeff. I'd read that post on making eyes and wondered how it would work - very well it would seem!!!

Hi Sean, Good to see your build log started. You'll find no shortage of advice here from the many Victory builders. Take your time, read the instructions well ahead of where you are at and plan your next moves carefully. That way you will avoid most of the obvious traps with this kits instructions. If you don't already own a copy, I strongly recommend obtaining "The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships" by C. Nepean Longridge - it is the "bible" for modelling this ship, and you will find it indispensable once you get to the rigging. Re coppering, I chose to use the kit provided "green bits" and found it provided an acceptable result. If I were starting over, I'd probably go the copper tape route as suggested above. Re your question, it's that long ago that I did this step that I can't actually remember how I approached it, but I think your idea of planking the deck before installing the grating and ladders makes sense and would avoid potentially very thin strips around the coamings. Again memory is failing me, but I think you will need to install the false decks before planking them. Hopefully someone with more recent experience of this stage will chime in here.

More stunning work Gaetan!

Have to agree with the others Kevin, I think you are being overly harsh on yourself. The work you have done on your Victory to date has been top notch, and when you have done a "re-do", the results have been well worthwhile. And we all have re-dos!!! Similarly, your work so far on Bismarck has been very good. Striving for perfection is one thing, but don't let aspirations for perfection get in the way of enjoyment and satisfaction from things that maybe just short of perfection - that way lies disappointment and frustration. You are a very capable modeller who turns out very good work and who is learning and improving all the time. Just like the rest of us. That's why we are here on this forum - to learn, grow and develop our skills.........and to support each other through the tough times. Now, get back to work!!!

Hi Gil, Thank you so very much for your detailed reply to my query, though I have no idea what might have happened within the PM system. Your reply certainly answers the question as to why the differences among sources, even if we can't be definitive about which is "correct". I also think you are right in saying that so much depended on the whim of the Captain at the time. Having mulled this over for a few days now, I have come to the decision that I will stick with Longridge. If he is wrong, then I'll be happy to be wrong with him. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts and sources. This is one of the great strengths of this forum, that we can share our collective knowledge and research. Cheers, Grant

Thanks Keith and Gary. Keith - I think that Janos has done/is doing a carving of the old Victory figurehead. I have some photos if you're interested - just PM me and I'll send them to you. Gary - TFFM refers to the four part book series, The Fully Framed Model, by David Antscherl. While specifically about building a model of a Swan Class Sloop, it is a very good general reference set. Volume four deals with rigging. The while set is very well written and relatively easy to understand. He is quite meticulous about reference to primary sources. As I mentioned, while there are some differences between the rigging of a sixth rate sloop and a first rate, those differences are relatively few and the principles and techniques discussed by Antscherl are equally applicable to both (in general). Longridge remains my primary source of guidance, but Antscherl often helps me to understand Longridge. Hope this helps you.

Hi Gil, Just wondering if you'd seen the PM I sent you the other day? Please forgive me for pestering you - I know it can get pretty hectic this time of year. Cheers, Grant

Glad to hear you're okay and ready to resume in the shipyard Andy.

Thanks Jeff, Lawrence, B.E. and Sjors, and all those who "liked". Your support and encouragement really helps keep me going through this tedious stage. Sjors, as I said in my earlier post, there is no tension on the lifts or tyes of the topmast and topgallant yet as there is no counter tension to stop the yards sliding up the mast. That will come when further rigging, such as braces, has been added. I have almost finished fitting out the Main lower yard. Expect to complete that and possibly the Main topmast yard and Main topgallant yard today. Will post an update when those are completed. The end is creeping inexorably closer!

Personally, I blame the salami sandwich!!! Great that you caught the error in time though Augie - much easier to do the re-do BEFORE it is attached to the ship

Glad to hear that you solved you copper plate cutting quandary Jeff. Nice progress.

Hi Wayne, After seeing this model in the background on Skype earlier today, I just had to drop in and read the log. Looks like a really interesting little build - and nicely done so far. I'll certainly follow from here.

Hi Wayne, Great to meet you on Skype today. Your Harriet Lane is looking superb - obviously worth the effort of the research and re-dos. Looking forward to seeing you bring her to completion.

Nate, I'm not familiar with Gorilla wood glue, but if it is a PVA glue, then apply some isopropyl alcohol to the glue for a while first and it should come apart quite easily. You might try soaking some paper towel in the alcohol and clamping that around the joint to help it soak in too. If you're not familiar with isopropyl alcohol I suggest you get acquainted with it real quick - it will become your best friend. Over here you can buy it in the hardware store by that name, otherwise look in the chemist for Rubbing Alcohol. 100% is best, but diluted forms (like Rubbing Alcohol usually is) works okay too. Once you've got the pieces apart, you'll need to straighten the warpage. You might try wetting the timber and clamping it between two boards, or placing it under a heavy weight, and let it dry overnight. Good luck.

Merry Christmas to you too Gary. My best Christmas present so far - seeing an update to your wonderful Alfred! I agree with Druxey on the deck colour - let it settle for a while and I'm sure you'll be pleased with it.

Your mast looks great Rob, well worth the extra effort. Merry Xmas to you and yours.

Merry Xmas Rusty, I hope Santa brings you a lathe/mill so you can make your canons

Just dropped in to say Merry Xmas to you and your loved ones Augie. Looks like Santa found you a new fishing buddie:

Thanks John. Some minor progress to report just ahead of the big fat guy with the red suit... I've now completed attaching all of the yards to the Foremast, complete with Jeers/Tyes, Truss Pendants/Parrals, and Lifts. Getting this far has required a great deal of cross-checking between the kit plans, Longridge and TFFM. I would NOT like to be attempting this based on the kit plans alone!!! That said, the kit plans for the most part aren't actually too bad - once you can understand them..........although there are a few inaccuracies, most of which it is possible to correct at this stage (though not all). Longridge is great for accuracy, again when you can understand what he is saying. He tends to be somewhat brief at times, and his writing can be difficult to fathom unless one is already an expert in 18th century rigging. Antscherl, in the TFFM, provides a good counter to both, making both Longridge and the kit plans more intelligible. Although Antscherl is writing about a Sixth rate ship, there is a very high degree of alignment with that of the First rate. For the most part the differences are just the size of lines and blocks, although there are a couple of minor variations in rig. Anyway, between the three of them, I'm making some progress, although I would say that I have spent probably twice as much time reading, studying plans, and re-reading, as I have actually rigging. It really is like a game of chess as you try to figure the next move and the one after, and the one after......... A couple of pics to show where I'm at, and to keep you-know-who happy. It's quite difficult to see some of the lighter coloured line in the first photo, so I improvised a back drop with my cutting mat for the second shot. There is no tension on the lifts or tyes of the topmast and topgallant yet as there is no counter tension to stop the yards sliding up the mast. That will come when further rigging, such as braces, has been added. Now, to do it all over again with the Main Mast................... Merry Christmas one and all. May your Christmas stockings be full of Ship Modelling stuff. :D

Just found your build, Dick. Looks to be a very interesting project with some great progress. I'll follow along for the ride too. Cheers, (yet another) Grant

Hi Einstein, Nice to see another Mamoli Victory builder aboard. It would be a good idea if you were to start a build log and show some pictures of any issues you might have - that way you'll get a broader spectrum of advice from people who might not be familiar with your particular kit/plans/instructions. I've just checked my plans and had a peek inside my hull, and yes, I would plank that deck. Now might be a good time to warn you that the instructions for this kit are, shall we say, not great. If you follow too closely, they will paint you into a corner, particularly wrt installing canon on the quarterdeck. I would also advise throwing out the metal gun port fittings and making your own timber ports. Don't wish to appear too negative when you're just starting this one - with a bit of kit-bashing and a lot of thinking/reading ahead, it does make up into a very nice model. If I can be of any further assistance, don't hesitate to ask, either through your own build log, or send me a PM directly. Cheers, Grant

Thanks for the info Ken