No Idea

On 1/20/2023 at 4:17 PM, Roger Pellett said:

If I were fixing this, using a razor saw or other fine toothed saw I would cut away the damaged area.   I would cut vertically down from the deck and horizontally in from the bow.  This will form a step to seat a wooden block.  Regular lumberyard pine would be my choice.  The block will eventually be glued in place with ordinary PVA glue but first while the block is still square I would dry fit it and drill for a dowel.  Using a French curve I would extend the curve of the deck and vertical shape of the bow on to the block.  Away from the model I would cut the block to its vertical and horizontal shape slightly outside of the traced lines.  The block can now be doweled, glued in place and shaped using conventional methods.

 

Finishing is just a matter of finding something compatible with what’s already there.  I suspect regular hardware store gloss black enamel.  Not acrylic.  Rust-Oleum makes a nice black inanely in a half pint tin.

 

Roger

This exactly what I would do - I'd cut the damage completely off in a straight line down towards the keel.  I would then glue a new piece in strengthened using dowels and then shape it to suit.

4 minutes ago, ChrisLBren said:

Hi Mark,

Please share what blade you bought from Martindale for standard ripping of planks and also for stock thicker than 1/4.   I have adjusted my fence quite a bit per instruction and still get stalling in anything much over 1/4 depending on the length of the cut.  This is one of the main reasons I want to buy a band saw.  

Thanks

Chris

Hi Chris - Firstly I can only give you my experience as I am no expert with table saws but this is me.  I buy my blades from Jim and Donna Byrnes as I think it's important to give their business as much sales as possible.  The last blades that I received from them are made by Martindale and to my eye they look exactly the same as the Malco blades.

For anything above 6mm I tend to use the 4" 0.4 110T blade as is does not deflect and gives a very clean cut.  I can usually cut 13mm thick wood with this blade but I can't force the wood through.  It has lots of teeth and can get clogged and overheat if I do.  So I've learnt to just let the blade and the saw do its thing in its own time.  It's hard to describe but I can feel when it's not right I just know.  Anything thinner than 6mm I drop down to a 0.3 blade as it gives such a lovely clean cut.  For small pieces I use a 0.2 blade and this is my favourite as its just so ridiculously accurate.

The planks I cut are often at least 500mm long and I usually have no issues at all.  If you are getting stalling and the fence is set to exactly how it should be it's probably the way you are using the saw.  My advice would be push the wood through as intended which is pushing from the rear of the piece keeping it tight to the fence.  Because the blades we use are slitting saws its no good trying to straighten a cut half way through as this will just twist the blade and cause it to stall.

Make sure that the side of the wood that follows the fence is perfectly flat - I've made up a simple sled to make sure that I have a true face and also turn the piece over often to keep that true face.  And that's it I guess but I'm sure many others will have better opinions than me.

I've had my saw now for many years and this is the first time ever I've even considered checking the fence.  It just goes to show to me what a great machine this is.  I did cheekily ask Jim to get on and make us a spindle sander again and I wait in hope that he will!

Mark

46 minutes ago, kurtvd19 said:

Did you set the fence up to be perfectly parallel or did you st it so it is parallel only up to the blade?  Byrnes builds in a slight taper for more clearance beyond the blade.  It is something like 0.003" to 0.005" to provide relief for the expansion of the cut off.  I don't remember where the taper starts but it would be equal to the centerline of the blade or before the center line of the blade - not beyond the center line.  I know I have the information somewhere and I am looking for it but I bet it's available right here where Jim described the method of adjusting the alignment.

Kurt

 

15 minutes ago, druxey said:

Is the blade jamming as it has insufficient 'set' or is too fine-toothed and heating up?

Hi both

The fence is set completely parallel up to the middle of the blade as the fence has a taper ground into it beyond that point.  The taper is around 0.10mm from the centre of the blade towards the end of the fence.  These measurements will be in my head forever as I have measured them so many times.

I ran a piece through for the umpteenth time and it still jammed so I simply changed the blade.  After changing the blade the saw worked exactly as it should with no jamming at all.  In fact I've been using it since and it's like new - no jamming; clean cuts and no hesitation in pushing the wood through.  Definitely a blade issue and I should have kept it to check it out but I used it like a Chinese throwing star and its stuck in a tree somewhere opposite our home.  That thing cost me a few hours of my life I'm never getting back 🤣. I didn't even get the piece in far enough for heat to become an issue.

In all of my years of machining I've never seen this before and it completely perplexed me trying to sort it out.  This is why I posted my findings to maybe save someone else the frustration of such a simple issue.  We work with such fine tolerances that it doesn't take much to jam up a perfectly good machine with a one off dodgy blade

Mark

A bit of a story here but this may help someone.

Today I needed to cut quite a lot of wood starting with some 13mm thick Castello.  It's been a while since I had changed my blade so I fitted a brand new Malco 4" 110T blade.  Now 13mm wood can be difficult to pass through with this blade and sure enough as I got almost through to the end of the blade it all jammed up.

So I did the rest of this job using a carbide blade which I don't like using as they are a bit brutal on the wood.  Next I needed to cut some 8mm wood and reverted back to the Malco blade and the exact same thing happened - I literally could not get anything passed the full width of the blade without the whole thing jamming up and stalling.  My lovely saw sounded like a cat in pain 🤣

So I thought that the fence must have somehow moved out of alignment so I checked it with a dial gauge and sure enough it was slightly off.  So I corrected this and tried cutting again.  This time it was even worse which really surprised me and I thought that I must have done something wrong setting the fence up.  So for the next couple of hours I must have set the fence at least 10 times and each time I could see that the alignment was perfect but the problem remained.

As a last resort I swapped the brand new Malco blade for a brand new Martindale blade - Problem cured!!!

I have no idea (I must change my forum name) what was wrong with the Malco blade as I put it back in again and I had the same problem.

So if you have this issue and just cannot see why  - swap the blade out even if it looks perfect.  It worked for me and as the fence is now probably the most perfectly aligned in the world the saw is back to its amazing self.  Needless to say the Malco blade became a frisby and is no longer in the house!

Cheers Mark

Bruce if you do find a replacement I would be very interested in buying a couple as well 👍

Another update from me  - The hatches are now finished 👍

I completed the front hatch by cutting the small rebates into the frame that the battens sit in.  The battens were cut to match which was a little bit fiddly to do.  I also cut the 45 degree angle that sits around the edge of the frame and glued it in place on the hull.

Then it was onto making the front hatch cover

Then the rear hatch cover which was a really nice simple job to do.

Next I put all of the pieces in place and also fixed the bulkheads permanently into the hull.

So my next job is to make two more Samson posts that lead up from the hold to the main deck.  I need to make another two beams to make this happen so I hope my order of 0.7mm end mills arrive soon as I've broken all of the ones that I had.

Cheers Mark

Hatches - or should I say hatch frames first!  I've never made one of these before and it wasn't until I had a quick look at Adrian Sorolla's book that I realised that the joints are not plain mitred.  Looking at the plans too I could see how they needed to overlap so here's my first attempt and how I went about it.

Firstly I cut 6 - yes 6 equal parts (I always make mistakes) which were 4.8mm x 2.5mm x 36mm.  Its always good to have spares on hand

These then needed to be rebated.  The rebate is 1.1mm x 1.9mm and I don't know how everyone does this by I prefer the mill for short pieces of wood.  The reason being is if I use a parallel under the piece being cut I only need to set the cutter to depth once and then I get equal pieces.  I also get the piece as low as possible into the vice to stop any deflection as the end mill passes along.

Next I swivelled the vice around to 45 degrees to make the first corner cuts.  I know that the cut needs to be 1.1mm but I did this to 1mm so that I could finish it with a chisel if necessary.

Right this is where it gets a bit complicated - So decided to cut the two ends with the ears first (I'm sure they are not called that) 🤣  Using the already mitred end I cut a rebate 4.8mm in from that end at a depth of 1.25mm.  Once this was done I used the indexing on the cross slide to measure my finished frame length of 33mm and made another cut.  You have to allow for the diameter of the cutter doing this so from the 4.8mm rebate I moved the slide forward 31.8mm.

I then repeated the 4.8mm rebate on the other end and then simply cut the other 45 degree angle on the face sander.  Lots of words I know but they look like this when complete.

Next were the other two parts which I again used the indexing on the slide to get the correct length.  To cut the other 45 degree angles on these pieces I swivelled the vice the other way.

The finished 4 pieces look like this

Here they are dry assembled and I'm pleased with the way they turned out.

So it's not finished yet but I thought that this might help someone else.

Cheers Mark

Alan that is an amazing hull you have built there!  Wow it looks complicated but really nicely faired by you.

1 hour ago, dvm27 said:

After all that tedious planking now you're getting to the fun stuff!

Oh yes!!  The next ship I build is only going to get the essential planks inside.  I had to blow the dust off of my mill its been that long since I used it.

57 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

Mark, absolutely beautiful work. Great visual treat. 👌

Thanks Keith 👍

14 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Amazing ! 

Thanks Vladimir 👍

Just a small update - The bow and stern small decks have both been planked.  I'm not fully planking them thats as far as I'm going.

Next is to make the hatches - The bow hatch is framed but the stern one is just a simple design.  Then I can get the bulkheads fixed in place.

A few pictures of the decks

Cheers Mark

Hi Derek and cheers for you nice comments  - I think scratch building is as good as the plans that you have.  Ancre plans literally give you everything that you need to build a ship which is great as I do not have the skills to do my own drawings.  They are so precise that as long as you are too as the builder it should all come together for you.  It's also a lot more expensive than I thought it would be.  I bought my first batch of wood and I would say I've then bought the same again due to my many many mistakes.  It lovely though when it all comes together!  I do think you should finish your Vanguard models first or I'll have Chris Watton on my case for loosing him sales 😂  They really are fantastic kits!

I'm pretty pleased with the results of the shellac that I bought and I now have enough for about 2 complete ships.  It wasn't totally matt but a quick rub with a fine (grey) scotchbright pad brought it down to what I wanted.  I've dropped a couple of pictures below which show what it's like.  Thanks for your recommendation too!

VTHokiEE - Thank you too!  My go to tool for measuring is a 150mm Mitutoyo digital vernier caliper with carbide tips.  It's the best £300 I've ever spent and is just so accurate.  Other than that I also have my height gauge and that's really it.  All of the compound angles that I cut are taken pretty much from the plans as they are all clearly drawn.  Often I will have to look a 2 sheets to find both angles but its all there if I look.  It's also really important to have a datum that does not change.  All of my measurements where possible are from the bottom of the keel upwards.  That way if I put one part on slightly out of place it won't affect anything else and then later stands out like a sore thumb.  Also allowing for the kerf of blade cuts and cutting the correct side of the line drawn pretty much sums up what I do.  If you need anything else drop me a PM and I'll do my best to answer it.

A couple of pictures of the shellac which I think looks ok.  It's not the easiest place for a test under the decks but I've got to start somewhere.  Oh and ignore the nice gap in my planks - that particular carpenter has now been sacked 

Great job what a lovely ship build!

1 hour ago, Toolmaker said:

Hi Mark,

 

I’m just starting out in the forum but during my lurking phase this build was, and continues to be, a main draw.

Your workmanship is superb and I love your approach. I can’t help thinking you have some background in machine shop practice. Whether or not that is the case, I find your work inspiring me as I prepare for my next project.

 

Thank you.

Paul

Hi Paul 

You are spot on mate and thank you for your kind comment.  I did an apprenticeship as a maintenance fitter/welder.  Back in the day (the very early 80's) if a part was broken or worn we had to make it.  So much of my apprenticeship involved toolmaking and the accuracy that came along with it.

Having said that most of my work then involved very straight lines and everything was square in one way or another and was made of metal.  Model ship building is anything but that so I have tried as best I can to adapt my very old skills to curves and wood.  

My approach is simple - try your best; ask questions to people that know and be honest in what your doing.  I often fail and sometimes get really lucky.  But it's the journey for me not the final outcome.  

If you've got a project get it out there as I could not be where I am without the help and advice I have received. 

I have to ask - how on earth do you pronounce where you are from 😂  I mean Wales is just down the road from me but thats a new one for me!

Welcome to the forum mate - Mark  

1 hour ago, Tobias said:

Mark your work is of the highest accuracy and subtlety, it pleases not only you but also me. It was just a thought process on my part. I am curious about the result with the shellac.

Thanks Tobias that's nice of you to say - I'll find out about the shellac tomorrow as I'm trying it under the decks first.  I got it from a UK company called Finney's and I explained to them exactly what I wanted it for.  They suggested a shellac with a shine reducer in it which was delivered yesterday.  I was very surprised at the cost of it though as its nearly £30 for 500ml.  I'll let you know what its like to use and how the finish is.

18 minutes ago, druxey said:

I agree!

Thanks druxey - I just try my best and at least I'm not making every part twice now.  It's amazing how quickly you learn to use sharp edged tools when model ship building.  Oh and how to sharpen them properly too - what a difference that makes when aiming for accuracy!

Tobias and druxey I think you both make very fair points and it's not something that I had really thought about.  I quite like they way it looks and I know that once the shellac is on it will change the way that they look again.  In fact it will probably make the planks look a little separate but it will be subtle.  It gives me something to think about before the finish is applied so thanks for your comments 

Here's some more of what I've been up to - I've made up the two internal bulkheads which is another of those jobs which is easy to make and difficult to fit properly.

I like the small samson post on one of the posts which leads up to a hatch on the main deck

Like the pump well I had to make and fit the beams over the bulkheads to get a correct fit.  More dovetails to be cut!

Front and rear bulkheads fitted in place after quite a bit of fettling

And this is how she stands as of now

So my next job is to plank the two small decks before installing the bulkheads permanently.  I've got some shellac with a shine reducer in it that I will try under these decks before I fit the planks.

Thanks for all of the comments, feedback and ideas as it really does help me - Cheers Mark

Hi All

I've now made the hinges and the lock for the pump well doors.  I made them out of 0.25mm brass sheet, 0.5mm brass rod and 1mm brass tubing.

They are attached using 0.6mm nails as I already had these in stock and didn't want to buy any more.  Here's a few pictures - I really like the one looking inside the well!

Cheers Mark  

I use Vallejo and I have no problem with airbrushing their paint.  Buy the air paints from them and not the brush on.  The air paints I have found still need thinning down.

I also use their flow improver and their own thinner  - It works great for me and they give good coverage too.

I have this airbrush and it's the best one for modelling that I have owned.  With so many attachments it does just about anything that I need.

I haven't found the fixed cup to be an issue as I just move what I'm airbrushing.  Its also very easy to clean and the double action works great.

Wow that is just awesome mate - I've been following your build step by step for quite some time now and its been inspiring for me.

Your finished ship looks beautiful and worth every minute that you've put into it.  Really good luck with the Bismarck but I suspect it will be a walk in the park compared to your Swan.

Cheers Mark

Derek that is one outstanding ship that you have built there mate.  The attention to detail leaves me speechless 

12 minutes ago, garyshipwright said:

Hi Mark. She's looking really good. I know you probably have mention this before but what wood are you using?  Look forward to your next update. Gary

Thanks Gary - the wood is castello boxwood 👍

I've now made a good start on the pump well - Here's the main parts that it's made up of which include some very simply reinforced doors.

Then they were assembled - They are well over sized at this point to give me loads to play with.  You will also see the very thin reinforcing battens at the opening

Next I used the template to cut it to the correct size but I left it overly high as this part has to fit snuggly under the main beams.  I also milled out the slot for the keelson and shaped the bottom of it to match the hull.

Then I removed the planks that I had previously fitted as the pump well sits directly on the frames.  I also at this stage cut the holes through the frames for the actual pumps.  I got a nice tight fit

I then used the main beams to determine the correct height and recessed the support posts to fit between the beams.  The well pump is wider that the opening between the beams. I also completed the side planking and added the planking nails.

And here's the pump well in situ inside the hull

I very pleased with the way it fits and I didn't have to make any alterations to the plans.  So my next job is to make the hinges and lock for the doors.

Cheers Mark

Such a tiny little boat - good luck with the build 👍  I have don't know how the manufactures make these for so little money but I'm glad they do.  What a great way to get into our hobby.

Well I have to say that I'm glad I paused and re-checked.  This morning after the 1mm strip that I put onto the port side had dried I checked every frame on each side for accuracy.

I found a high spot on the starboard side and also discovered that the port side was not completely 1mm incorrect.  In fact the clamp was slightly wavy 🥲

So I've spent today pulling both sides to their correct dimensions as thinking forward - if I don't do this now I'm going to have to make loads of alterations to the waterway to make it fit.  I'm sure it will still need fettling into place but nothing like it would have done had a not checked.

The results are great as I can actually see that the clamps run far straighter than they did and now I know that they are correct.

So after doing that I cut the dovetails into the two beams that I had made.

I then cut the receiving dovetails into the beams.  I cut these 2.5mm deep as apposed to the 2.4mm on the plans (Sorry druxey I'll try harder next time I promise 🤣)

The beams are now in place and the fit is really nice - even better they are bang on the money height wise with just a little left to sand out.

So now I can get on with the pump well as I now know its exact location.

I can't thank enough for the encouragement and making me re-think to get this right.

Cheers Mark

19 hours ago, dvm27 said:

Unfortunately, you have "achieved perfection" so you'll just have to keep up that standard! What about adding a 1mm filler strip above the port side clamp? It would be invisible under the waterway.

Hi Greg you completely blew me away with this comment - I just didn't know how to reply yesterday.  Thanks for your really nice comment 👍

So I took a step back and decided to do a full measurement of the clamps as I was unsure if one side was high and required sanding or the other was low.  I was actually hoping that I had put the starboard side a bit high but no......I was right and the port side was roughly on average 1mm too low.

So I've taken your advice and added a strip today to get me to the correct level which needs feathering in towards the stern.  I'm very glad that I have done this as sometimes it's so easy just to plough forward with a build and not reflect where you are.  Thanks for the advice and I'll have an update soon.

Cheers Mark