flying_dutchman2 Posted October 14, 2020 #1531 Posted October 14, 2020 I just noticed this built and I like the figures you added. It makes it so much more realistic. Excellent craftsmanship. Marcus mtaylor, Louie da fly and EJ_L 3 Quote Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better" Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).
Kikatinalong Posted October 15, 2020 #1532 Posted October 15, 2020 Absolutely stunning work and attention to detail Steven. Im starting to consider that you commanded one or even a fleet of Dromons in a previous life. Can't wait to see it up close once Emperor Dan allows parole for us Victorians. Louie da fly, liteflight, EJ_L and 2 others 5 Quote
liteflight Posted October 15, 2020 #1533 Posted October 15, 2020 It seems to me that the Dromarch would be flailed round the head by the flag tails in any following wind. I hope Louie was spared that, or wore an anti-swooping helmet Louie da fly and mtaylor 2 Quote Andrew "Pas d’elle yeux Rhone que nous” Kits under the bench: Le Hussard (Started in the 1980s) Scratch builds: Volante, Brig (R/C): Footy Drakkar "Rodolm" (R/C). Longship Osberg (R/C)
Louie da fly Posted October 15, 2020 Author #1534 Posted October 15, 2020 Ah! But he has an awning over his head (yet to be added) which will take care of the banner tails. But they certainly had those big banners - in fact I'm being a bit conservative, if anything . . . From the Synopsis Historian of Ioannes Skylitzes (commonly known as the Madrid Skylitzes Chronicle, after the library where it's held) And I've just realised I have another Byzantine pic of a steering oar with a tiller - check it out - it looks a lot like what I ended up making! Though it seems to me the steersman is holding it the wrong side of the rudder shaft. From the Sermons of Gregory of Nazianzus: Pantaleimon Cod. 6 f. 183r flying_dutchman2, EricWilliamMarshall, mtaylor and 4 others 7 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
druxey Posted October 15, 2020 #1535 Posted October 15, 2020 Looks as if Gregory's captive audience looks none too happy. "I have to row and listen to him?" The Madrid image has the steersman using a double-handed grip, I note. Louie da fly and mtaylor 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv
Louie da fly Posted October 16, 2020 Author #1536 Posted October 16, 2020 11 hours ago, druxey said: The Madrid image has the steersman using a double-handed grip, I note. The one in the blue, yes. It's a bit hard to see what the steersman in the red is doing. Maybe I should go through all the illustrations in the Skylitzes to see if there are any others showing anything worthwhile on this subject. mtaylor 1 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
Old Collingwood Posted October 16, 2020 #1537 Posted October 16, 2020 That is looking so busy and excellent with the crew - really looking the part. OC. Louie da fly, Jeff T and mtaylor 3 Quote Current builds 28mm Battle of Waterloo attack on La Haye Saint Diorama. 1/700 HMS Hood Flyhawk with PE, Resin and Wood Decking. Completed works. Dragon 1/700 HMS Edinburgh type 42 batch 3 Destroyer plastic. HMS Warspite Academy 1/350 plastic kit and wem parts. HMS Trafalgar Airfix 1/350 submarine plastic. Black Pearl 1/72 Revell with pirate crew. Revell 1/48 Mosquito B IV Eduard 1/48 Spitfire IX ICM 1/48 Seafire Mk.III Special Conversion 1/48 Kinetic Sea Harrier FRS1
BANYAN Posted October 16, 2020 #1538 Posted October 16, 2020 Nice work and research Steven. I note that in the second image above (Sermons ....) that the steering oar has another small cross piece where the swivel point would be. Have you considered and/or eliminated that? cheers Pat Old Collingwood, mtaylor and Louie da fly 3 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)
Louie da fly Posted October 16, 2020 Author #1539 Posted October 16, 2020 Thanks everybody for the likes and OC for the nice comment. Pat, as far as I can work out that's the fixing point for the steering oar against the hull. They came in various types (the TAMU paper goes into them in considerable detail). I chose the triangular ones you can see in my pictures above, but there were plenty of other types - "box", "socket" and even some where the steering oar actually goes through a hole in the hull.. Old Collingwood, EJ_L, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
Louie da fly Posted October 16, 2020 Author #1540 Posted October 16, 2020 I found a couple of interesting illustrations from the Madrid Skylitzes. First, I need to let you know that this manuscript is a Byzantine history and was produced in Sicily in the second half of the 12th century under the rule of the Sicilo-Normans. A number of different artists from various traditions and cultures illustrated it, which accounts for the different artistic styles. Most of the ones below are probably by Western artists, but the ones I've based the dromon on (such as the one above with all the flags flying in the breeze) are in the Byzantine tradition, produced by Byzantine-trained artists. Two handed grip on rudder - folio 132 verso. folio 134 verso. This is the only illustration by this artist who is almost certainly West European. Probably single-handed. Folio 146 verso. Folio 168 verso. Western artist, whose renditions of ships are very simplistic. From folio 138 verso. Note the beached galleys with their steering oars swivelled up out of the water. This appears to be the only rendition of a ship in the manuscript that shows both steering oars, though it's pretty certain that double rudders were a standard feature. It is possible that in smaller vessels there was only one steersman who operated both rudders. Certainly when Tim Severin and his associates followed Jason's voyage from Thessaly to Colchis in what is now Southern Russia in the 1970, the steersman held one rudder in his right hand and the other in his left, and it worked well. Due to budget constraints their reconstruction of the Argo was smaller than Jason's 50-oared pentekontor. However, each rudder shaft broke twice on the voyage and had to be mended. So the forces involved are considerable, even on a twenty-oared vessel. Old Collingwood, EricWilliamMarshall, J11 and 2 others 5 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
Louie da fly Posted October 16, 2020 Author #1541 Posted October 16, 2020 I've carved the second steersman and finished the hands on the first one, and put both steersmen in place. Cathead, mtaylor, Landrotten Highlander and 17 others 20 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
Jeff T Posted October 16, 2020 #1542 Posted October 16, 2020 This is just amazing! J11, mtaylor, Louie da fly and 1 other 4 Quote Jeff Current build: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/24519-spanish-galleon-by-jeff-t-revell-196-plastic-with-modifications/
cog Posted October 16, 2020 #1543 Posted October 16, 2020 You've gone quite a ways, Steven. Your helmsmen look good, and have the fitting and typical "Steven Dromond's Hair cut" Jack12477, Louie da fly, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ...
Louie da fly Posted October 16, 2020 Author #1544 Posted October 16, 2020 4 hours ago, cog said: Your helmsmen look good, and have the fitting and typical "Steven Dromond's Hair cut" As the Kinks would say "Each one a dedicated follower of fashion" Old Collingwood, mtaylor, Jack12477 and 2 others 5 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
Louie da fly Posted October 17, 2020 Author #1545 Posted October 17, 2020 The awning for the poop has been painted for a long time, with an eagle motif. And now I've painted the substructure to match the rest of the ship, particularly the castles. The columns are wood painted to resemble porphyry, the purplish marble reserved for Imperial use. And now to add the figures I've been saving up all this time. The Emperor (Alexios I Komnenos, known to the vikings as Kirjalax - from Kyrie (lord) Alexios). And now the awning, and the flute-player who gives the time to the oarsmen (far right of the picture, in blue): And the Emperor's Varangian (Viking) bodyguards: And two Imperial courtiers: Unfortunately, you can barely see the Emperor under the awning: I just have to tidy up a couple of ropes and the ship is complete, after more than 5 years! I still have to complete the stand, add a nameplate and make a case. But that's it. I'm already having withdrawal symptoms . . . oneslim, Kikatinalong, druxey and 26 others 25 4 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
mtaylor Posted October 17, 2020 #1546 Posted October 17, 2020 From a view of accuracy, details, research, and building... this is at least museum quality. Maybe higher. Geowolf, Louie da fly, Old Collingwood and 4 others 7 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
Louie da fly Posted October 17, 2020 Author #1547 Posted October 17, 2020 Not so sure about the building, Mark - I'm very aware of its shortcomings in that department - but many thanks. Old Collingwood, mtaylor and Cathead 3 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
Jack12477 Posted October 17, 2020 #1548 Posted October 17, 2020 Absolutely magnificent model! I agree with Mark, museum quality! Your figure carvings are outstanding. mtaylor, cog, Louie da fly and 2 others 5 Quote Jack "No one is as smart as all of us" - Is ón cheann a thagann an cheird The craft comes from the head --------------------------------------------- Current build: US Constellation Non-ship builds: USCG UH-65A Dolphin M16 Multi-gun motor carriage diorama M4A3 Sherman Tanks dioramas 1936-1939 Mercedes Benz 540K 1934 Rolls-Royce Phantom II JSDF Light Armor Vehicle Figures: The Last Bridge: Raider Reaper Edge of Universe: Ianis The Last Bridge: Vadim with cart Completed build log(s): 18th Century Longboat , Marie Jeanne, Willie L Bennett 1888 50 ft Gaff-rigged Ice Yacht Scratch Build The Sullivans (DD 537) Liberty Ship SS John W Brown USS England (DE 635), Artesania Latina Titanic Lifeboat Gallery: Swift , Armed Virginia Sloop, Santisima Trinidad Captain's Launch , 18th Century Longboat , Marie Jeanne Other: Rhinebeck Aerodrome Tour
druxey Posted October 17, 2020 #1549 Posted October 17, 2020 Well done indeed, Steven. It has been interesting to follow your journey into uncharted territory and ending up with a plausible result. I've enjoyed the presentation of what evidence you had in order to arrive at an outstanding conclusion. And thank you for putting up with my admittedly terrible puns. Louie da fly, cog, Old Collingwood and 2 others 5 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv
Cathead Posted October 17, 2020 #1550 Posted October 17, 2020 9 hours ago, Louie da fly said: porphyry, the purplish marble reserved for Imperial use. Oooh, my turn to show off pedantic knowledge! Geologically speaking, porphyry is an igneous rock (formed from cooling lava), whereas marble is metamorphic (physically and chemically transformed from limestone). However, in the building trade, "marble" is routinely used to refer to any crystalline rock that can be cut and polished regardless of origin. "Granite" is the same way in kitchens and baths; most "granite countertops" cause a geologist to bristle. Anyway, aside from the rare pleasure of applying my geologic background to model building, this has been such a wonderful journey through a period and ship-building style I knew nothing of. Thanks for sharing so much detail and context with us along the way. I am much the better for it. Also, what happened to the horns on the guards' helmets? (ducks) Louie da fly, cog, druxey and 2 others 5 Quote Eric Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1893 steamboat Peerless; 1853 steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West; Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch
cog Posted October 17, 2020 #1551 Posted October 17, 2020 What's left for me to say, than: Outstanding work, Steven. I did not expect such a fast finish. You took me by surprise this time, well most of the times anyway. I am curious as to what you next build will be. Hat of to you! Cathead, Louie da fly, druxey and 2 others 5 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ...
Danstream Posted October 17, 2020 #1552 Posted October 17, 2020 I second all what was said: awesome, outstanding, magnificent. I learnt a lot from this build. Congratulations, Dan. mtaylor, Old Collingwood, Louie da fly and 2 others 5 Quote Current build : Mayflower - AL 1:64, Lady Nelson - Amati Victory 1:64 Completed non-ship builds : Spitfire MK I - 1:48, Arado 196B - 1:32, Sea Fury - 1:48, F-15C Eagle - 1:48, Hawker Tempest Mk.V - 1:48, F104S Starfighter - 1:48 "The most effective way to do it, is to do it" - Amelia Earhart
bigpetr Posted October 17, 2020 #1553 Posted October 17, 2020 What I wanted to say just sounded, Bravo and big thanks for so well documented and shared journey. Louie da fly, druxey, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote
mtaylor Posted October 17, 2020 #1554 Posted October 17, 2020 I do hope that you will put some photos in the Gallery, Steven. Louie da fly, cog and Old Collingwood 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
BANYAN Posted October 17, 2020 #1555 Posted October 17, 2020 That looks stunning Steven, and I think you may be selling your building skills a little short noting the scale of this model. You have taken us on a wonderful voyage of discovery with this build, and I am looking forward to your next project - any hints? cheers Pat mtaylor, Old Collingwood, cog and 1 other 4 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)
liteflight Posted October 18, 2020 #1556 Posted October 18, 2020 Not only a stunning and beautifully built model, Steven, but also a journey of discovery through the Byzantine empire. Lots of unclear evidence winnowed and crystallised into the Dromon. You can be proud of it/her ( I have no idea whether Mediterranean ships are referred to as feminine!) Many thanks for sharing. I can safely say that no one who viewed your build log will ever pull a hose without seeing ( in their minds eye) a lateen yard rising steadily with three unfurlers ( Tom, Dick and Mustafa?) ensconced thereapon. Jamie Coleman, Old Collingwood, Louie da fly and 3 others 6 Quote Andrew "Pas d’elle yeux Rhone que nous” Kits under the bench: Le Hussard (Started in the 1980s) Scratch builds: Volante, Brig (R/C): Footy Drakkar "Rodolm" (R/C). Longship Osberg (R/C)
Mark P Posted October 18, 2020 #1557 Posted October 18, 2020 Good Morning Steven; A very nice model; the figures of the crew give so much atmosphere to the whole view. A highly worthwhile return on all those years of effort, research and thought! Congratulations and well done!! All the best, Mark P Louie da fly, Old Collingwood, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Previously built models (long ago, aged 18-25ish) POB construction. 32 gun frigate, scratch-built sailing model, Underhill plans. 2 masted topsail schooner, Underhill plans. Started at around that time, but unfinished: 74 gun ship 'Bellona' NMM plans. POB On the drawing board: POF model of Royal Caroline 1749, part-planked with interior details. My own plans, based on Admiralty draughts and archival research. Always on the go: Research into Royal Navy sailing warship design, construction and use, from Tudor times to 1790. Member of NRG, SNR, NRS, SMS
Baker Posted October 18, 2020 #1558 Posted October 18, 2020 A masterpiece. This was a pleasure to follow. And very educational. congrats 👍 mtaylor, Louie da fly, cog and 1 other 4 Quote Regards, Patrick Finished : Soleil Royal Heller 1/100 Wasa Billing Boats Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch) Pelican / Golden Hind 1/45 scratch Current build : Mary Rose 1/50 scratch große-jacht / Yacht D'Oro 1/50 Corel Gallery : Revell Bounty Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch Shore leave, non ship models build logs : ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72 Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72 Autoblinda AB40 1/72 122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72 10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e) Centurion Mk.1 conversion M29 Weasel 1/72 SAM6 1/72 T26 Finland T26 TN 1/72 Autoprotetto S37 1/72 Opel Blitz buses 1/72 Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72 Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72 Cleaning the 1/72 military collection Si vis pacem, para bellum
Louie da fly Posted October 18, 2020 Author #1559 Posted October 18, 2020 Thanks everybody for the all the comments. It's very nice to have finally finished this build, and I'm pretty happy with the final result. 17 hours ago, druxey said: thank you for putting up with my admittedly terrible puns. Actually, much appreciated. 8 hours ago, mtaylor said: I do hope that you will put some photos in the Gallery, Steven. Just done. I had to figure out how to make it all work - never posted in the galley before. 6 hours ago, BANYAN said: I am looking forward to your next project - any hints? I've got a few ideas, but haven't made up my mind yet - so many choices . . And I still have to finish off the Great Harry. 5 hours ago, liteflight said: three unfurlers ( Tom, Dick and Mustafa?) Mustafa must be an Arabian immigrant - which wasn't all that uncommon. A lot of mutual exchange of populations. But a more likely group would be Con, Theo and Iouannis . . . mtaylor, Keith Black and Old Collingwood 3 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht
Ab Hoving Posted October 18, 2020 #1560 Posted October 18, 2020 I like this project very much. Great research, nice building, amazing result. Congratulations. mtaylor, cog, Louie da fly and 2 others 5 Quote
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