HMS Victory 1805 by Robert29 - FINISHED - Caldercraft - Scale 1:72

[Robert29]

Rich, yes it is all caldercraft wood that came with the kit except for some linings for the top gunports.  The strips which should have been 16mm wide x 1mm thick were in fact only about 0.7mm in thickness, quite brittle and were difficult to work with as they kept splitting in two when trying to trim them to size. Those are the only strips I replaced. The 1mm x 6mm strips for the rest gunport linings were ok. I can't really complain for the caldercraft wood supplied with the kit. The plywood, the lime for the first planking of the hull, the walnut for the second planking and the tanganyika for the decking were great to work with. The rest of the wood seems ok as well. To obtain a good result for the hull planking involves a lot of bending, checking, trimming and sanding. On mine I used a combination of spiling and edge bending. The walnut supplied with the kit for the second planking, was 5mm wide. Where the planks were to be narrowed to less than 5mm I took the advantage to spile the plank, where not I had to do some edge bending.

 

Robert

[paulb]

I agree with your comment about the Caldercraft walnut strips. They certainly are brittle. Strips which are much better are available, but after replacing all my rope and blocks, I did not feel like replacing all the strips as well.

Your planking, by the way, is suberb!!

On a Dutch forum there was a lot of debate about the lower rabeted stop of the gunports.

On the present HMS Victory there is none, and from McKay's drawings it is not clear. I decided to omit them, although the Caldercraft manual says otherwise. We may never know what it was like in 1805.

[Richardjjs]

This photo makes me want to strip the planking of and restarting. 

 

THis is why I decided to paint it (My Victory from 35-40 years ago was not painted) Photos dated april 1992

Actually not as good as I thought .

07011202.PDF

07011201.PDF

Edited November 12, 2017 by Richardjjs

[Richardjjs]

This photo makes me want to strip the planking of and restarting. As does the work Bertus

 

THis is why I decided to paint it (My Victory from 35-40 years ago was not painted

Edited November 12, 2017 by Richardjjs

[Richardjjs]

When you said you replaced all your blocks and Ropes Why was that and what did you use

I must admit the holes in the 2 and 3 hole blocks are not all lined up and it does show

 

[ca.shipwright]

Robert,

I am sitting here laying planks on the main gun deck as I look at your main gun deck on the computer. I must confess that I am having the same arguments with my self as to when is enough, enough. I confess that I do like the look of the end of plank tre nails. But, only if they are done with exquisite neatness as you have done. I don't think I have the steadiness to get this done and have just about decided to skip this item. With all the rest of what is going on around the busy main gun deck, I don't think they will be missed. As for the single tre nails every foot on the planks; I definitely think this is overkill.

 

The model looks great. Keep on going and continue to stimulate me with your skills

 

Regards

 

 

[leginseel]

Hi Robert, the deck planking and the 'tree nails' look great.  I agree that to add mid plank nails, whilst totally authentic, would detract from the clean deck planking.  Lovely job and I follow with interest.

 

[paulb]

The blocks I replaced because I found the caldercraft ones not very realistic. Most blocks I replaced with blocks from Clasicmodel.com (yes, with one s). I bought the 2mm blocks from Syren Shipmodel Company. 

The caldercraft ropes are a bit fluffy and there are no cable-laid ropes for the breech ropes, for the anchor rope and for the shrouds (although there is some discussion whether shrouds should be cable-laid or shroud-laid ). I replaced them with Morope rope (about one kilometer of rope), which is very nice to work with, although you must take care, using knots or CA glue, to prevent unraveling. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by paulb

[Richardjjs]

This photo makes me want to strip the planking of and restarting. 

Bertus work is so clean

 

THis is why I decided to paint it (My Victory from 35-40 years ago was not painted

Edited November 12, 2017 by Richardjjs
Comment was not correct

[Richardjjs]

Have always found that using a bees wax block does a number of things. Makes the rope lie properly with no fluffing. Make the rope easier to handle and gives it protection against aging

But yes Caldercraft parts do not seem as good as I would have expected. The one thing that I am really annoyed about is the finish of the Quarter Galleries and Stern decoration. Apparently you have to Paint the  black rectangles between the windows. Not impressed with a model that costs nearly 1000.00

[Robert29]

Paul, that's a great picture you you uploaded, good details for the gunports.  Yes, you are right about the lower rabeted stop on the gunports.  I started fixing the linings as per the manual supplied with the kit, after I had already done a few, from some images on the internet I realised that there is no stop on the lower edge as your photo clearly shows.  Since I had already done a few I decided to continue with them.  As for the blocks and rope I will keep that in mind when i come to them.  I still have a bit of a long way to arrive to that part.

 

Nigel  / Michael, thank you for your comments, much appreciated and encouraging to go on.

 

Rich, when I rigged Bluenose II I used the bee wax on the ropes.  I agree it made it much easier to handle.  As for the Quarter Galleries, I'm afraid yes the black rectangles have to be painted.  The quarter Galleries are something I have to do some homework about as how I am going to finish it. There are a few things that probably I would finish differently from how it is shown on the manual.  The Quarter Galleries have a lot of detail and if not well finished will ruin the ship. One of the headaches I have is how to pass the wires to the three lanterns which I intend to put lights in.  Again, I will see to it when its turn arrives.  Yes there are a few things in the kit which could have been better but on the whole I don't think it is a bad kit.  That's what is nice about building wooden ships,  there are no fast rules how to go about doing things.  It is not just take out of the box and glue, even though it is a kit and not scratch building,  you have to put to test your skill.  Sometimes you are satisfied with the result, sometimes not and you try again until you achieve a result to your satisfaction.  If you ruin a piece of wood it is not the end of the world, you get another piece and begin again.

 

Robert    

 

 

 

 

[Robert29]

Finished the hull, from the lower wale to the keel, I finished it with mat varnish, wanted to try the Wipe-on-Poly but did not find it locally.  I am still undecided if to leave the lower hull as is or to copper plate.  This was a dilemma from the beginning, that is why I took the pain to lay and finish the planks as I did.  To cover it all now is a pity.  On the other hand I know that the real Victory had its hull copper plated!!!!

 

 

 

Bounty, my son's dog couldn't be bothered what I was doing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Bertu

[donrobinson]

planking looks great!!

[Mirabell61]

Outstanding hull planking Robert !!!,

 

one of the best planking jobs Ive seen.....

 

Nils

[Seventynet]

Absolutely stunning job Robert!

 

Best Regards,

Ian 

[md1400cs]

Robert,

 

YES that planking work is indeed  superb.

Regards,

[leginseel]

Robert, that planking looks superb and as you say it would be a shame to cover it up, but my understanding is that much of the Victory build is covered up - lower gun decks etc., so I would go with your gut feeling because what ever you decide to do, it will be exceptional.

 

 

[jwvolz]

Excellent work on that planking.

[Heinz6672]

This looks wonderful, Robert! Amazing!

 

And please, please, please... no copper, please, please, please 

 

:-)))))

[Charter33]

Hi Robert,

Superb planking like yours needs to be celebrated, not hidden. 

Any mileage in considering plating just a small area? ..... probably not...

I do know that if I had achieved this level of craftsmanship on my own model the planks would stay fully exposed - and I'm speaking as a fellow builder who completed copper plating just under an hour ago!

 

Cheers,

 

Graham.

[Rich.F]

fantastic planking. per I would not plate the hull looking like that. love how you have a mix of colours in the wood. really stands out 

[Richardjjs]

JUst look at the quality of the Gun Port linings. Mine are terrible by comparison
 

Would agree with the comments about copper plating the planking. Possibly do one side.  I actually have the guns run out one One side and the other with the ship close up.

Copper plating is again a bone of contention. It was laid like tiles on a roof. Starting from the stern working forward and , I think, on a Royal Navy ship from the keel they where laid over each other. The problem her is that they are too thick and the edges show. Particularly if you start at the keel. Looking down the plates the edges show. Starting at the Waterline and working down it is smoother.
Amati do plates that allow them to be laid side by side. They have left and right so they can be laid properly but they are expensive - about 22.00 for 350 ish. They also have an advantage that they are etched so quit large "blocks" could be laid at a time.

Allows for the beauty of the hull to be seen

Victory has the Lower POrts closed. Probabvly because of the weight of the Guns

 

The rigging of the Guns  in the instructions for the model are NOT complete

 

There are three ways to rig the guns.

 

1. As shown Close for the sea. Note the tackle is rove round the ropes to tidy it all up. Unusable. Actually the barrel should be rove up against the side of the ship
2. Cleared for action. Extra rope coiled by end of tackle (Picture 1)

3. Fired. Gun run out for reloading (Picture 3)

 

NOTE also the tackle to the sides of the ship is Single and double. The rear tackle is two doubles.


Have added 3 shots from 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Richardjjs

[Robert29]

The Jury has spoken, 'NO COPPER PLATES'.  Don, Nils, Ian, Robert, Nigel, Joe, Heinz, Graham, Rich, Richard, thank you all for your comments and for your advise.  Thank you all for the likes as well.  

 

Nils, coming from you is an honour. You have outstanding builds.

 

Heinz, I was kind of expecting that kind of a reply from you.  Ok no copper plates.

 

Graham,  still a lot more challenges along the way, we leave the celebrations for later on.

 

Richard, thank you for the gun images.  Very informative.

 

 

Robert

 

  

 

 

[Old Collingwood]

On 04/12/2017 at 11:38 AM, Bertu said:

Finished the hull, from the lower wale to the keel, I finished it with mat varnish, wanted to try the Wipe-on-Poly but did not find it locally.  I am still undecided if to leave the lower hull as is or to copper plate.  This was a dilemma from the beginning, that is why I took the pain to lay and finish the planks as I did.  To cover it all now is a pity.  On the other hand I know that the real Victory had its hull copper plated!!!!

 

 

 

Bounty, my son's dog couldn't be bothered what I was doing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very very nice planking.

 

OC.

[Richardjjs]

It would be a shame to hide up that incredible planking. I use wood oil to cover my planking on the S Felipe. Was not happy with the Caldercraft Victory, not sure why, may be the wood.

If you do use copper plates try and over lap them they just don't look right next to each other. Start at the Stern (As per full size) and work forward. It should start at the hull BUT this is not proven and the plates tend to show from above

GREAT WORK 

[paulb]

Saw your planking just now. Beautiful!! I like the fact that you used individual, short planks, rather than those as long as the ship itself. I regret having done the latter.

Coppering: always a good subject for a discussion. Of course it is historically more correct to copper. At the same time the caldercraft copper plates are not correct...

IF you decide to copper, I would suggest you use an overlap of 1/3 between the rows, instead of 1/2 as suggested by the manual.

This is the diagram by McKay:

 

By the way: coppering of their ships gave the English the most important advantage over the Dutch in the trade with the East. It made their ships much faster (due to less fouling) and maintenance was easier. The Dutch thought investing in coppering was too expensive. Another reason was that the Dutch harbours were not as deep as the English, and therefore the ships (and the copper plates) were vulnarable to damage. 

Anyway, it did not help the VOC (unfortunately..)

Edited December 8, 2017 by paulb

[Richardjjs]

It would be a shame to hide up that incredible planking. I use wood oil to cover my planking on the S Felipe. Was not happy with the Caldercraft Victory, not sure why, may be the wood.

If you do use copper plates try and over lap them they just don't look right next to each other. Start at the Stern (As per full size) and work forward. It should start at the hull BUT this is not proven and the plates tend to show from above

GREAT WORK 

[Richardjjs]

Hi Paul
I am sure you know all this
Have sent a number of post here an  elsewhere about Coppering
The main reason for fixing coppering was to prevent the wooden bottom from rotting away. A ship with a copper bottom was abetter Investment than one that did no haver it  (Hence a "copper Bottom Investment")
According to many ship specialists Copper was laid from the stern forward over lapping the previous plate (AS you say)

This helped prevent to forward movement of the ship tearing of the plates
Initially metal nails where used but that reacted with the copper and salt in the sea and all the plates fell off. Copper nails prevented this
British navy ship are supposed to start at the keel and work up.
British Maritime ships start at the keel and work down
HOWEVER because the plates supplied by Caldercraft are not scale thickness Fitting them from the keel UP means that the overlap shows quite badly when looking down from above (One side of my Victory is plated this way)
As this would be the case most of the time I applied the other side from the keel down as it "looks" much better
As we know compromises have to be made when modelling to make the model look better.
C Napean Longridge talks about lifting the waterline and coppering up slightly towards the bow as it looks better

Interestingly Amati are now producing plates (Left and right laid)  in a number of scales that only have the main rivitting one  side so these can be laid side by side so they LOOK right (ie as though they overlaid) and are also etched so a few can be laid together where there is no  narrowing or widening of the planking
They are expensive 22.00 for 350 as against 3.20 per thousand from Caldercraft. BUT !!

 

DRAWING ONE is the original plans from the 1:98 scale Victory from Mantua (13 incredible plans) Everything had to be cut out
Drawing Two shows the copper starting from the keel
Drawing three is my Copper plating starting from the hull Looks great BUT the overlap is very prominent from above

Picture Four shows Amati's Plates (1;64 for Elephant and new Victory)

 

NOTE These Mantua plans where the only place I could actually work out where the Wales came on the bow
 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Richardjjs

[MESSIS]

I really loved you work. Am going to follow you and enjoy this wonderfull project. I wish you all the fan you can get out of it and succes (your idea of the lights is something I care a lot to see the end effect, your "candle lights" idea is great! ) . How do you plan the upper deck lighting?

 

Christos

Edited December 9, 2017 by MESSIS

[Richardjjs]

Here are the Amati Copper Plates. 
Scale 1:64 (Elephant and ne Victory when it become available
They are etched so can e attached in "blocks"
!:64 comes in 2 sheets of 182 (Half starboard half port) ie 364 in pack

PART NO 4392-05

around 15.00 per pack  http://www.snmodels.com/en/snshop/fittings-and-accessories/photoetched-copper-plates
The 1:72 have far more plate 20.00  ie 500

DONT get you grubby mits on like I have!!

Edited December 9, 2017 by Richardjjs