74-gun ship by Gaetan Bordeleau - 1:24

[vossiewulf]

Steps of the build where you have to fit and trim the same pieces a zillion times can be very tedious, or at least I think so. So I might need to take a couple of days of BTO (Build Time Off) while you finish this part. I'm pretty sure I've accrued enough days, last time I checked my contract says I get 20 days of BTO per year plus all the standard holidays- navy day, national wood day, the festival of St. Redleaf, patron saint of oaks, etc.

 

 

[druxey]

That is the largest collection of 'spare parts' lying on your benches that I think I've ever seen, Gaetan. The already assembled parts look terrific.

[Sailor1234567890]

There must be a fortune in Cherry there. The scale of your project is amazing.

[BANYAN]

Ditto Druxey's comment Gaetan; very nice work and hopefully nothing knocks those bits off the tables.  Speaking of which, do you think you have enough worktables

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Landlocked123]

On 6/6/2017 at 3:00 AM, vossiewulf said:

Steps of the build where you have to fit and trim the same pieces a zillion times can be very tedious, or at least I think so. So I might need to take a couple of days of BTO (Build Time Off) while you finish this part. I'm pretty sure I've accrued enough days, last time I checked my contract says I get 20 days of BTO per year plus all the standard holidays- navy day, national wood day, the festival of St. Redleaf, patron saint of oaks, etc. 

 

 

Saint Red Leaf......I've heard of Saint Swithens of the Meadows but not Red Leaf. 

 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

 

Parts were layed  down on tables for each frame had 4 groups, 2 parts for each half. 

Regrouped in 62  bundles with elastic... 1 table less is now needed.

 

 

I do not think that I save time buying frames already drawn.

Drawings are not user friendly.

Frames are drawn 1 side only.

 

To help to build 2 half frames with the correct width, I draw on a paper ruler, the correct spacing for each frame at the top of each one. The spacing will surely be more regular this way, at least I think, in comparison if I deuct by the center line of each frame.

[Sailor1234567890]

I bet you do more lofting work on this model than the original designers did when building her. Very cool.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Frames assembly and gluing on a flat surface in 3 layers:  a plexiglass sheet, wood glue does not stick well on it and it does preserve the next layer under the paper pattern.

Under a Russian, multi layered. It is difficult to find a large very flat surface made of wood because stability and wood do not go together. A good flat surface need to be made from a harder material like high density plastic, glass or a mineral like table pool table slate or granite flat surface.

[BANYAN]

Quite a stack of frames there Gaetan.  That will be a big hull when assembled.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[mtaylor]

<jaw drops at the sight of the frames on the shop tables>  She's going to be huge.  The pictures put it in perspective now. 

[Mau]

Hi Gaetan.

Great Job!!!!
It looks like you're going to do a lot of sanding and very soon.
Let me know about the performance of your new Trend Helmet.
Greetings
Mauricio

 

 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Hi Mauricio,

Very satisfied about it. Ear protection could be better. Best feature, positive pressure inside the helmet, no mist, cool air and no dust.

[Jack H]

It's a good idea to press the glass over the frame,I'll assemble the frame in your way

 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Here are the latest photography tests using a Telephoto lens. The first picture, I think is a good example to show how distance  can be compress  by a telephoto lens. If you look at the lanterns on the right side of the picture, knowing that the distance between each one is about 500 feet; you can observe the compression effect on the distance.

 

For many reasons, I wanted to try to take better pictures with a camera and one of these is to show photos of modelship construction on this forum. In this quest I explored many lenses. The biggest telephoto I could afford is a 150-600mm. After this stage, prices are out of range. To show an example of how expensive it can go, the second picture is a used lens of a 1200mm for only : $180,000.

 

There is another way to go with a higher magnification at a much better price. I chose one between 750 and 1800mm. Even if it is a not a  camera lens it acts as one. The main difference is that less light enters by this lens. The name of this lense is a spotting scope. There are many uses, by examples to look animals and birds. There is a new adapter  on the market of 43mm for a full frame camera. This allows you to take photos. It is similar as taking photos with a microsope.

 

Taking photos with a spotting scope, it is called Digiscopy. At first sight, looking at objects from far is of no interest for a model ship maker but as a piece of 10 cents; there are 2 sides to it. The other side being it  also can be use as a macro lens and the minimum focus distance is under 7 feet. The next photos are examples of macrodigiscopy and the last picture shows the setup.

[druxey]

Depth of field becomes an issue unless you stop well down and use longer exposure - and a tripod....

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

This morning, i was asking myself which type of lens would be the best one for a model ship. When I want to take photos only at a few feet and cover 8 feet large, I need a wide angle. There are 2 types of lens: variable or fixed angle. Theoretically a fixed angle takes better picture  than a variable angle.  I definitely prefer variable angle instead of a prime lens for the following reason. If I install the camera on a tripod and use a fixed angle, I will surely have to move closer or  farther with the camera to get  the part to photography. Always have to move the tripod, I do not like this.

 

What is the best lens? This is the one you prefer. Is there only 1 lens to do the job you want? There is probably more than one. Exploring the possibilities of a lens is very interesting.

Here is a photo taken  with a 150-600. If I follow the rules of the book, I would not use it for a small model ship. But I like the result, so why not try new things.

 

 

[daHeld]

You're completely right. Everything that does the trick can't be wrong.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

daHeld,

 

It is exactly as cutting a plank: there are many kinds of saws that can do the job.

 

Here is another example with 2 lens: photo 1

 

photo 2: macro lens 100mm at 1 foot: Macro 

photo 3: spotting scope at 7 feet: Macrodigiscopy (Macro + digital photo + spotting scope)

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Here is another comparison: a  macro 100mm vs a wide angle 40mm. A 40mm is not a macro lens, but if we can increase the distance between the camera and the lens, we will have a new macro lens. This is possible by adding Kenko Extension tube. Price of 40mm+ 3 tubes: 1/3 of 100mm.

 

Here are the results of the figurehead of the 74 guns at 1/192 scale. The diameter of the figure head is about 1/4 of a small finger.

 

Photo 1   Lens macro 100mm,  lens 40mm+ 3 extender tube : 12+ 20+ 36mm  

Photo 2   Lens 40mm

Photo 3   Lens 100mm

Photo4    Lens 40 mm + 3 extension tubes

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Last week end,  a very good MSW member, from Stockholm, came to Canada for business. He wanted, in his spare times, to visit a Model ship Museum but I suspect he also wanted to see a workshop.  Unfortunately, there is no such Museum near my home, so I prepared an improvised visit of what he could see near Montreal if  such a place existed.

[Mike Y]

That was fantastic! Day well spent, strange that there are no reviews of this museum on tripadvisor

It was a pleasure to meet Gaetan and his wife, see all that models in person (logs are logs, but it is always better in reality!). We are a rare bunch, and when you meet a man who shares the same passion - this makes that day very special.

 

And now I know how the dream workshop looks like:

 

[Jack H]

Hi Mike Y

Are these  your private collections?Very beautiful, very historical! If possible, you are welcome to travel to China

[Jack H]

 

Compared to Gaetan's dream workshop, my "workshop“ is only 2 square meters, and now the temperature is estimated to be 40 Centigrade .

But my wife allows me to use computers here

So I haven't stopped completely in the heat of summer.

 

 

 

 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

To meet a member from the next generation of Modelship builder like Mike: I know that the future of this hobby is in good hand, and yes it was a special day!

 

A dream workshop, and to live in a super expensive town are 2 things very often impossible to match.

 

A lot less expensive in Canada, and the temperature now is 19 degrees celsius outside.

 

It is always a difficult choice to do when we are young. We want to be close to the job and when the job is in a big town, the house has a big price. On the other hand everything is more affordable in a smaller town but with this choice, travel time for the job increases.

 

 

 

[Jack H]

Hi Gaetan

You've mentioned the concept of 3D drawings before,I made a  attempt to make a simple experiment based on my understanding of the 3D drawings-A simple UE4 scene.Of course, the demo now is not the full functionality I imagined,this is just a simple demonstrationt.

 

This demo allows you to use your mouse and keyboard to override controls, look at components from different angles, and improve spatial understanding of the structure.I made an operation video, but I couldn't upload it to Youtube-If necessary, I can send it to you via the Forum,Here are some video screenshots.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Hi Hjx, You are close to what I would like.

 

Ideally, I would like to buy a set of plans in 2D, of by example 74 guns, plus with this, a small visual program where I can extract in 3D, the most difficult parts to realize. 

 

Here is an example how I would like to be able to use it. One important fact is that I can see a part, separately from the entire build. A good example would be to extract the keel from the build so that we can see all the details especially how the planking touch the keel and the grooves made for this.

 

In the 74 guns books, there are often drawings made in 3D by hand. That was 50 years ago! Sometimes 2D drawings are not enough to understand well. This is exactly there that 3D could help.

 

In a way 3D is better than the real thing because it is easier to see the details: the lines show all the intersections.

 

In a realistic way,  I know that a good model needs  5 years to build. 

Still today, I have no idea, how long it could be for an experienced man like you to draw  a complete set of a 3D ship plan? 1 year, 3 years  or more!

 

 Hjx you and other modelers, represent the next generation of model ship builder. I do not know how you are going to use 3D tools. It is realistic to think that better tool will come on the market. In 1750 when they needed a plank to be cut, everything had to be done by hand. Today, electric tool replace most of hand saws. Even if I want to build a model ship as close as the original, I do not think that I am oblige to follow the same path as in 1750. Today, in 2017, electric tools can saves a lot of time and greatly facilitate the work. To build a model ship at scale is not something easy. For many years, when I saw a tool which could help me to build things in a easier way, I saved money to buy it.

 

All I can say, I do not know how 3D will be use in 10 or 15 years from now but I would like to use it a bit if I still live.

[Jack H]

Hi Gaetan!

 

First of all, I'd like to point out my own point of view. I think it is most important for everyone to enjoy in the process of making ship model- according to their own preferences or wishes.So, whether it's manual or with some power tools, it's great to complete making a ship model.And I never think learning software is an end, because the ultimate goal of using 2d/3d is to make  an actual models-In a sense, 3D software is another "electric tool".

 

Making that demo is one of my experiments.I have decided to develop HMS XXX 1765 with a respected member, and it is very helpful for my partner to check out the components of my development in real-time, as he wishes-- because I can't express what i want to say clearly in English.

 

As you say,it takes years to develop a good 3D drawing or 3D modeli,maybe 3-5 years.So now I'm not doing a complete project, just using 3D software to calculate the keel, frames drawings.

 

And you ask "how long it could be for an experienced man like you to draw  a complete set of a 3D ship plan?",that is a tough question.If there are authoritative detailed 2D drawings, maybe I can finish it in 1-2 months if I don't have to do other work every day. If it just make 2D parts into 3D, maybe a few days. But that is not the case, in fact a lot of 2D drawings I didn't really understand-even the anchor drawings such as 74 gun. some ship model drawings were simplified, such as stitching method of frame, France and Britain are not the same, the British in each period is not the same, and the arrangement method is not the same, encounter this kind of problem, the project will be suspended. So many ship model books are not written by one person ,the drawing and modeling may be done by someone else-because there is no such a comprehensive person. As far as I'm concerned, my modeling should be ok, I can make a model by 3D  (including sculpture), and I am confident that I can make any parts with NC, but my lack of knowledge of the ship model, because in China, buy ship model books is very difficult, I bought the book at Amazon,  orders will be cancelled after 3-6 months...So I can't say I can make a good set of drawings.

 

Actually, your schedule of 74 gun is very fast. My 64 gun has stopped for nearly 3 months.Because I have to work every day, and my wife has ordered that if I make the ship model in the office again, she will...I mainly focus on the development drawings, and if i have a workshop and more spare time, I think I will continue to make the ship model.

 

With regard to the future and application of 3D technology,  you can decide by yourself use it or not according to your actual situation.

 

HJX

[reklein]

Seems to me with a 3D rendition of that quality it would be a fairly easy step to 3D printing of such a model. That's a terrific rendition , it took a couple of looks before I realized it was just electrons on a page. I was also struck by the shape of the hull. How it looks like a balloon with too much water in it.;)

[AnobiumPunctatum]

@Hjx 

 

What kind of software do you use? Is it Blender?

[Jack H]

2 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

@Hjx 

 

What kind of software do you use? Is it Blender?

hello AnobiumPunctatum,the scene was made in Unreal Engine 4-an excellent 3D game or virtual display development software, and it is free to everyone, but if you sell anything developed by UE4, you must pay 5% of the proceeds to epic.

 

The UE4 development scene can achieve amazing results, but I'm simply making it without  grainy map for the model.Most importantly, the scene created by UE4 simulates the actual ship model - just like in a museum, and all you see is dynamic and live.If you add more programs, it will become an " intelligent" scene, such as using animation to demonstrate the structure of components, to retrieve drawings or presentations, and to match music or sound...Non-professional-people like me can make this kind of scene.