74 gun ship by Gaetan Bordeleau - 1:24

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

It was Jaager who posted it.

About the groove in the rudder, Boudriot noted it in the 74 guns volumes but he did not say when it began and neither do I know.

[mtaylor]

As far as I can tell, the rudder groove started around 1750 and lasted for around 40 years.  This seems to be one of the French experiments of which they did a lot.  Unlike England, they had (if I recall correctly) 5 main designers and also a school to train for that purpose.   The designers would use what worked for a ship of given size and rating and experiment.  They did exchange ideas and designs so the rudder groove may not have been universal.  

 

I hope someone who knows for certain can be more definitive that what I've posted.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Mark, it is a very simple modification,  but the question apparently will remain: Did it work?

[kurtvd19]

On 8/4/2020 at 11:01 PM, Jaager said:

  19:81-85  with illustration       chatter strip   16:236

The article Chatter Grooves is 5 pages and was in Issue 19 on Pages 81-85 and was written by John Harland a recognized authority.  A bit more than should be considered fair use.  It is not yet available on the NRG store but I will extract it and make it available by contacting the office and telling Mary the name of the article.  The cost is $2.50 payable by card or PayPal.  She will have it by Monday morning.  It is a PDF and will be emailed.

The citation from Vol 16 - page 238 will also be included - it is a single paragraph question that appears to have been answered by Harland's article.

Kurt

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

3 hours ago, kurtvd19 said:

The article Chatter Grooves is 5 pages and was in Issue 19 on Pages 81-85 and was written by John Harland a recognized authority.  A bit more than should be considered fair use. 

There is no need to copy the entire 5 pages. Somebody who did read this article, could have given us an idea in 1 paragraph. 

This way, everybody, could advance in ship modeling.

[kurtvd19]

Fine.  I thought the idea was somebody was going to post the 5 pages.  Recap it like you suggest.

Anybody who wants the whole article it's available.

[mtaylor]

18 hours ago, Gaetan Bordeleau said:

Mark, it is a very simple modification,  but the question apparently will remain: Did it work?

Good question.  I have no idea.  If had been a success, I would have thought that other nations having captured ships would have copied the idea.  

[AON]

Without having experienced it, my technical training in fluid dynamics suggests that with the thickness of the rudder blade and the sharp change in shape (tail end of the blade) there would be considerable turbulence experienced which would be felt back through to the tiller, possibly resulting in shaking things up a bit.

 

I am certain each country did "borrow" any improvements in design that they discovered in captured warships of the time, and it was a busy time full of design changes.

 

Kurt, although I look forward to reading a short synopsis on the subject here, I appreciate the availability of the full article and will be getting it.

Thank you.

Alan

[Sevenof9]

There is another remark about chatter grooves in the same volume Clyde M. Leavitt;NRJ19(1972), 257 - 258, in a modern application.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

 

I did not see what these 2 articles talks about but I do not think that this groove has revolutionized the rudder. I would say that instead, they improved the aerodynamic of the shape

Here is a photo in a more modern approach, an it is free.

  

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Which one of these miniature plane works better?

Yesterday, I tried these 4 at Lee Valleys

I will divide  in  2 categories:

-the 2 top ones are about 2 inch long and are very nice to look. They made replicas of much larger tools which are made to be hold with 2 hands. At a small scale, it does not hold easily in the hand.

-the 2 at the bottom. Let's begin with the right one. About 3 inches long, it works very well and easy to handle. But I did prefer the last one, the left one, because of the size. It holds easily in the palm of the hand and it is easy to control. I wanted a small one, so I took this one.

 

This week, I also tried another tool, a camera... from the smartphone. So from now on, the photos will be from it. It is surprising to see the quality, but it is not as much versatile as a real camera.

Here are a few examples.

[SJSoane]

HI Gaetan,

 

I am impressed with the photos from your smart phone, particularly how you kept so much in focus across a large depth of field. My efforts usually result in a much shorter depth of field, leaving a lot out of focus.  Do you places the focus at the center of the image, or front or back?

 

And by the way, the model is looking quite wonderful. Beautiful craftsmanship, as usual!

 

Mark

 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Hi Mark,

 

You have a good question but I could not tell you how does it works because it is too much new for me. I know that touching the screen will be where the focus will be done.

For these photos inside the model, I cannot see what the camera sees so I transfer the image in the tv to see what the camera sees. I probably just looked  at the back.

I use the camera from Lighroom mobile and my first goal was to learn synchronization between Lightroom  and Apple. By default Lightroom want to sync everywhere and this take a lot of cell time. I had to find where lI had to uncheck 2 boxes in Lightroom, and also uncheck 6 boxes on the I-phone, so that the sync can only be done by wifi which is unlimited.

[Bossman]

Gaetan, your work is very impressive. Wonderful model. 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Thank you Bossman,

 

Mark, I checked the phone camera, and it is possible to focus and even lock the focus on a photo. I guess as many phone camera as many different properties, so there are probably no standard.

 

It is impressive to see what a phone camera can do. The phone camera  can replace: 1 camera with 3 lens: wide, close, and tele-zoom.. The camera lens give good photo and 1 of the reasons is because they have a large opening (F). Good quality photos are possible, and it could be a good choice for a model ship building camera  at 1/10 of the price of a bigger camera cost. The 2 biggest differences, I would say are the sharpness of the lens and the size of the photo. If you print a photo from both camera, the difference would be easy to see, but for computer screen, it can be difficult to see the differences.

 

Here is how I make holes in brass the easy way: a center drill or maximum reduced span at maximum of the drill bit. There are a lot of theories on how to do it but this is the easy way. A too much long span in drilling brass will create wobbling of the drill bit and this way, the drill bit has difficulty to "start" the hole because she wants to go everywhere...

 

The first chapter of the rudder is completed: outside.

The next one will continue but inside the model.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

photo 1     few words about Ebonizing which can be good ... or bad

photo 2    a letter from Boudriot explaining which lines are tarred and which ones are not. The line for the steering wheel is not tarred and few others.

photo 3    a drawing showing how the tiller is well maintained in his trajectory

 

 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Fabrication of the capstan from the first and second deck + installation of all the deck beams.

The easiest way to fabricate the curved deck beams perfectly parallel is to roughly cut the beams, sand the upper part, turn them upside down, and pass them under the drum sander.

[SJSoane]

Beautiful, beautiful work, Gaetan!

I like seeing the shipwright assembling the tiller equipment. It really shows just how large these assemblies really are.

Where does the tiller rope go after reeving through the block at the center? Is there another block that leads the rope up to the steering wheel?

 

Mark

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

HI Mark,

 

No other blocks, it goes straight to the steering wheel.

On the second deck, the ropes pass through some kind of wardrobe, or should we say a wardrope.

On a more serious note, the biggest difference between a French an English  74 gun ship for the steering wheel; is the location:

the French installed it behind the mast, the English installed it in front of the mast, needing a much longer rope this way.

[SJSoane]

Gaetan, wardrope, very funny!

And a beautiful wheel. You set the highest standard!

 

Mark

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Some other parts for the first deck.

[Gahm]

This is one impressive model!!

 

Thomas

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Thank you Thomas,

 

Here is a photo of my family playing with a model ship... In fact, this painting was auctioned at  Charles Miller LTD.

 

Beginning staircases, 2 will have stair railings.

[SJSoane]

Gaetan, it looks like that young child in the painting is about to do serious damage to the rigging!

 

Your craftsmanship on the stairs continues to set the highest standard. And the photos give a nice perspective on this area of the ship. Well done!

 

Mark

[druxey]

Always a pleasure to look in your progress, Gaetan.

[mtaylor]

The painting is great Gaetan.  And your work is always a joy to see and a goal.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

 

thank you for enjoying the painting, looking back at it, I would say that this model,  about at 1/36 is standing almost in a dangerous position and  it is difficult to know if they consider the model ship as a toy or something else?

 

2 more parts completed, the railings

 

on the first photo, we can see where the steps are inserted and where the part holding the steps re coming from, This way it is very easy to do as many parallel staircase steps as you want.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

2 photos later

544 notches on the deck beams of the second deck

depending of the attitude you choose to do it, it can be fun 

[rshousha]

Hi Gaetan, 

 

The word I would choose would be "meditative". There's nothing quite as meditative as working on a wood ship kit. I am in the middle of building a stagecoach and I am more than tired of it. I want to get back to finishing a wood ship kit I had started. 

[Jorge Diaz O]

Wonderful, real pleasure to follow your progress. The presses or sergeants you use where do you buy them and who makes them? I urgently need that same design, thank you teacher.