Help decide next project for Syren Ship Model Company

[amateur]

No, it is not in print. I got it for about 15 euros in a second hand shop. I wouldn't have paid more for it. It is not a real ook, it is a bunch of drawings/sketches, size A4 , with a plastic binding.

it has a number of (mostly) inland ships from flanders and the netherlands, and a couple of larger ships. 

It is a nice to have, but the drawings are ralatively small (1 ship per page), and need some work before you can build a larger scalemodel.

 Ican do a couple of pics if you like.

 

[flying_dutchman2]

22 hours ago, amateur said:

I can do a couple of pics if you like.

 

Jan, pictures would be great. 

Thanks 

Marcus 

[mtaylor]

Marcus.... check the link at Ebay...  https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHEEPSMODELLEN-1700-1900-W-K-Versteeg-SC-Dutch-Text-1972-GOOD-Illustrated/370681173936?hash=item564e51d7b0:g:hkMAAOxy0rZRGEvC

[omarcs]

as some one else said:  Boeier, because it is so unusual 

Or I would pick the cross section - only chance to get at least a piece of such a ship, because due to the enormous size

[amateur]

12 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Marcus.... check the link at Ebay...  https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHEEPSMODELLEN-1700-1900-W-K-Versteeg-SC-Dutch-Text-1972-GOOD-Illustrated/370681173936?hash=item564e51d7b0:g:hkMAAOxy0rZRGEvC

But that price is rediculous for what you get.....

I don't know what is happening to second hand prices, but they are rising to extremes.....

this one is more realistically priced:

http://www.marelibri.com/search/current.seam?maximumPrice=0.0&keywords=&firstResult=0&faceted=true&ISBN=&century=ALL&selectedDatasources=1021&quicksearch=Versteeg+scheepsmodellen&l=nl&matchTypeList=ALL&author=&title=&description=&minimumPrice=0.0&minimumYear=0&sorting=PRICE_ASCENDING&booksellerName=&ageFilter=ALL&keycodes=&pod=false&maximumYear=0&actionMethod=search%2Fcurrent.xhtml%3AsearchEngine.quicksearch

Jan

Edited February 18, 2018 by amateur

[amateur]

Request to admin: perhaps split this one (and the preceding ones) to a separate thread, as it is completely off topic in this thread.....

 

I promisd to put some pics of the Versteeg booklet. Here they are, without further comments. For the smaller ships, these are more or less representative: one ship per page, some with, some without rigging plan (most of them with, but basic). The larger ships have 'chapman-like' drawings, basic, and without any useable rigging plan. Hoever, there are some nice dutch /flemish ships that van not be found elsewhere. Size of the book is A4, the right side has the drawing, the left side some bery basic info onwhere the drawings comes from (mostly own measurements from existing ship, or copy of original drawing).

list of contents: (complete)

And here the drawings that authentic ships used:

veership:

tjalk/steenschuit

 Boeier:

Rigging plan of one of the ships (this is all you get, and this one is reasonably detailed)

this one, has a more basic rigging plan

And this onehas none.

 

hope this gives an imprssion.

Jan

[flying_dutchman2]

Nice diagrams. I think that one could use these plans to built a ship or two. One needs to be well versed in that area of ship building. 

marelibre.com looks like an interesting site, bookmarked it.

Thanks

Marcus 

[mitbok]

Authentic Shipmodels Amsterdam also had a kit of Green Dragon - a royal  Lemsteraak yacht and tjalk type of barge.

Those were in bigger scale, POB kits so a bit better than the small series. I have them all but so far only built an Ewer. 

Looking at the model of Boeier, it seems fairly complicated with all the decor and metal parts. Wander what Chuck's

kit will offer and what would be left up to the modeler.

[Chuck]

I have already actually built the model pictured above......but I just built it in my head. Every step....by step.  I know exactly what the pieces will look like and how all of that trim and molding will be added, etc.  Its not very difficult at all.  The hardest part of that project is convincing ANY one of the folks who can get the lines off the original contemporary models to do so.  Any one of the three contemporary models will do. Or to even share the findings some of them already have.  Its the toughest thing I have ever had to try and do.  Its like these folks in that part of the world think they are keeping a secret cure for cancer or something.  They are just very hesitant to share primary and secondary source information.  Its very off-putting.  I have never had this experience with any other museum, author or knowledgeable historian or scholar on the subject.   I could get state secrets easier than it has been trying to get info on this boeier.  It may be the thing that kills this project before it has a chance of getting out of my head and onto the workbench.  Its probably why no really good kits or projects exists for these boats.  Everything is "need to know" and "I am not sure I want to share" type of stuff.  Its very unfortunate.

 

And I am actually willing to pay for the info....if they wait too long I am sure some other not-so-ethical group will try and find a way to steal it though.  So hopefully they wont hold out too much longer.

[Dan Vadas]

Chuck, unless you want to be totally OCD about the Pump Tubes there's really no need to bore them all the way through. On my Vulture Cross-section I only bored the octagonal tubes about 15mm in at the top and 25mm in at the bottom. You can actually only see a couple of millimetres into the bore at the top once the chain is fitted. I cut out the bottom section (a cross-section within a cross-section ) to show the chains on two of the tubes. See HERE. The chains are also truncated.

 

  Danny

[Chuck]

I already checked out your log actually.....it is exactly the way I am thinking it will go.  But like my mini kit for the cheerful pumps.  Folks will still need to form the eight sides from square stock using a 7-10-7 template.  But that is something everyone should learn to do at some point anyway.

[mitbok]

2 hours ago, Chuck said:

 Its like these folks in that part of the world think they are keeping a secret cure for cancer or something.  They are just very hesitant to share primary and secondary source information. 

This is an extreme opposite approach of Russians who will get the info or a book and poor it out into a torrent for every one to see and download, regardless of copyright. 

My question is this - what ever info we get from a museum or a private person who got it from the museum we can not publish or sell but can you use it for a construction of a kit that you going to sell? If you use museum plans to redraw your own to include in the kit is there any legal problems?

 

Well... latest I heart from our Dutch friend that he is willing to share but needs some time to analyze all his findings and measurements, which might not be a bad thing. Chuck, you do have some time before starting the boeier so it should work out.

Here is a second measurement session of a half model that took place two weeks ago. This time measurements were taken at the exact location of the eleven frames on the half model (earlier measurements were taken at less number of frames). Waterlines and the buttocks were measured as well. Also frames measured  from the inside to get true dimensions of hull without planking.

Edited February 19, 2018 by mitbok

[Peter Bloemendaal]

Wouldn't this be the ideal job for a 3d scanner??

[Chuck]

Ah but that is the half hull.....not one of the other three full models.   The crazy thing about these three models is that none of them even match in size or scale or shape.  They are all slightly different so its pot luck if they any one particular set of lines will be considered correct.   But at least I will be able to say it was from one of them.   

 

Either way I will create a kit of a boeier and do have some time to wait as I am still working on the other two projects.  But this is my back up boeier pictured below for any such kit should the Czar model info not make its way to me when I am ready to start.

 

 

 

[bigcreekdad]

The Chew grew on me. I wish there were more kits of NewEngland fishing vessels.

[Brucealanevans]

I would definitely buy the boeier kit. I have the admiralty model and wood kit on my shelf but the prospect of free cutting all those frame pieces is still intimidating for me and I find other things to do instead.

So might well buy the cross section in addition!

Bruce

[Jim Rogers]

Are there any 5/32 and 3/16 singles coming out in the near future?

[Chuck]

Yes.....

[amateur]

Strange, isn’tit?

The guy who did the kit on Batavia at first had to give the ship another name, as the Batavia guys where more troubled with copy and namerights than with real content

 

Why are they affraid of sharing? Is it while they don ‘t have the means or time to take the lines, or is it something else? 

 

Jan

[Chuck]

I couldnt say....I am hopeful that by the time I am ready to begin one of the two sources I have for info will allow me to use the lines they have taken off of the contemporary model.

[amateur]

Can we be of help, or is it just sorting out in an aqdully slow pace?

 

Jan

[amateur]

Btw I like Your baciup boeier even better

[Chuck]

Not yet as that project is a ways off.  I wont begin until after the cross section and winnie are released.....