USS Tennessee 1869 by Keith Black - scale 1:120 - Wood Hull Screw Frigate - ex Madawaska 1865

[rwiederrich]

Any evidence of your fine needle work?  You do know....no pictures...it didn't happen....right?😄

 

I remember you talking about this technique......can't wait.

 

Rob

[mtaylor]

Great to hear you're back in the saddle, Keith.   Hang in there, spring is coming.  Or so I'm told.

[clearway]

It's o.k. Keith -i was drilling some 0.6mm holes in some wood the other day and didn't realise i was holding it with my fingertip exactly where the drill bit "popped" through- not once but twice !!!!!! As you said time to put it down and retire for the night- mind you , you can number the parts in red afterwards 🤪

 

Keith

[Keith Black]

22 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Great to hear you're back in the saddle, Keith.   Hang in there, spring is coming.  Or so I'm told.

 Thank you Mark. Only 57 days till Spring!

 

17 hours ago, clearway said:

It's o.k. Keith -i was drilling some 0.6mm holes in some wood the other day and didn't realise i was holding it with my fingertip exactly where the drill bit "popped" through- not once but twice !!!!!! As you said time to put it down and retire for the night- mind you , you can number the parts in red afterwards 🤪

Keith, twice? And did you scold yourself?!

 

On 1/17/2023 at 1:56 PM, rwiederrich said:

Any evidence of your fine needle work?  You do know....no pictures...it didn't happen....right?😄

 

I remember you talking about this technique......can't wait.

 

 Rob, sorry it's taken me so long to reply, here is my "weave" method......

 

 

 I work from right to left, if someone wanting to use this method is left handed, I would think working from left to right would be easier. 

 

 

 I use flat clips to hold the spacing guide to the shroud lines. I work from the bottom up pinching the should lines as close to the spacing guide as possible. Holding the needle flat against the guide makes penetration of the shroud lines much easier. I raise and adjust the clips as I work my way up.

 The long piece of card is for photographic purposes only. 

 

 Only when ALL of the ratlines have been woven through the shroud lines does any gluing take place. At this point it sorta looks like a House Centipede. Because the ratline threads tug their way through the shroud lines, the shroud lines lose their correct angle from the deadeyes to where they attach to the mast. At this point each individual ratline needs to be pulled taunt, shroud line angles corrected, and spacing between shroud lines adjusted. At this point if you have any doubt that a ratline has not pierced the two outside shrouds, pull that ratline and reweave it. Do not proceed thinking it'll be okay because it won't be. This is fiddly but the the whole process is fiddly but it's the most positive method of attaching ratlines to shroud lines in lieu of knots that I've found working at this scale. 

 

 Again, I work from right to left. I use CA to attach the right side shroud line to each ratline working from the bottom up. Once all the ratlines are glued to the shroud and have had a bit of time to dry, only then do I trim off the excess thread. I use a jewelers flush cutter for trimming and that flush cutter is only used for trimming thread, it has no other purpose in life. I can not stress how extremely critical it is to keep yourself concentrating on what you're doing. If I were to accidentally cut a shroud I don't know how I'd recover. It's a nightmare situation, that's why I do this in daylight hours and make sure my head is totally in the game. After all the ratlines are trimmed make sure they are taunt and once again correct shroud line angles and spacing. 

 

 After gluing the left side working from bottom up, trim off the excess, make final angle and spacing adjustments. I do not glue the ratlines to the inside shrouds, I only glue the ratlines to the two outside shroud lines. And then it's time to take a much needed break. 

 

 Thank you to all for your comments, likes, and for following along.  

Edited January 23, 2023 by Keith Black

[FriedClams]

Oh, I like this process Keith!  Straight forward, but clever and efficient.  It makes perfect sense not to glue to the inner shrouds.  Nice clear explanation too.  I use a pair of fingernail clippers to get close as possible to whatever I’m clipping off, but I’m going to look into the jeweler’s flush tool.

 

Gary

[Keith Black]

41 minutes ago, FriedClams said:

Oh, I like this process Keith!  Straight forward, but clever and efficient.  It makes perfect sense not to glue to the inner shrouds.  Nice clear explanation too.  I use a pair of fingernail clippers to get close as possible to whatever I’m clipping off, but I’m going to look into the jeweler’s flush tool.

 Gary, thank you. I used fingernail clippers in the beginning but gave up on using them as the curved cutting surface makes it too easy to accidentally nick or cut the shroud. Using the flush cutter I can get up against the shroud without fear of cutting it.

 

 I failed to mention that when applying the CA I use a needle dipped in CA. I put a small amount of CA in a plastic container lid, dip and apply a tiny amount to the ratline and shroud joint. I then brush CA along the excess thread tail about a tenth of an inch with the needle. Once dry the excess thread tail is hard and it makes trimming with the flush cutter much easier than cutting just soft thread. 

 

 This is a clever method but it's not mine. At sometime in the past I read about this method here on MSW and tailored it to my particular need. What a wonderful resource MSW is! 

[wefalck]

Yep, those jeweller's flush cutters are very useful to nip off things flush. Had one for decades. They are meant to nip off steel watch springs, so they are very hard and tough.

 

I use a piece of card/paper behind the shrouds, on which the shrouds and the ratlines have been printed. This gives you a good guide to check that you didn't pull the shroud out of alignment and that the ratlines are correctly spaced.

[Glen McGuire]

5 hours ago, wefalck said:

Yep, those jeweller's flush cutters are very useful to nip off things flush. Had one for decades. They are meant to nip off steel watch springs, so they are very hard and tough.

 

I've been using cuticle trimmers to flush cut thread but they don't work on metal.  I need to get a jeweler's flush cutter.

 

Keith, great walk-thru of your ratline process.  As with the rest of your build, very clean and crisp.  Beautiful work!

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Your's is the clearest step-by-step explanation of a great method to use at 1:96 and smaller ... perhaps even 1:70 !  BTW, I love flush cutters - as well as many tools used for beadwork (the Admiral put me on to those).

[TBlack]

Keith,

Nicely explained. And do I understand that you thread the ratline thru the shroud, not just touching it?

Tom

[FlyingFish]

So that's how you do it! Another peice of the puzzle solved. Thanks Keith!

[clearway]

On 1/22/2023 at 7:56 PM, Keith Black said:

Keith, twice? And did you scold yourself?

i berated my intelligence and ancestry shall we say! The ratlines look great Keith especially considering the scale you are working to.

 

Keith

[TBlack]

OK, so you're threading the ratline thru a shroud at 1:96. The shroud is, therefore, mighty thin. How do you keep from sticking your finger with the needle?

TB

[BANYAN]

Looking good Keith; as others have said, your explanation for this process is very clear and well demonstrated. I continue to enjoy your updates.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Keith Black]

12 hours ago, wefalck said:

I use a piece of card/paper behind the shrouds, on which the shrouds and the ratlines have been printed. This gives you a good guide to check that you didn't pull the shroud out of alignment and that the ratlines are correctly spaced.

 Thank you Eberhard for responding and thank you for great tip. 

 

6 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

Keith, great walk-thru of your ratline process.  As with the rest of your build, very clean and crisp.  Beautiful work!

 Thank you Glen. Once you start using flush cutters you'll wonder how you ever got along without them. 

 

6 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

Your's is the clearest step-by-step explanation of a great method to use at 1:96 and smaller ... perhaps even 1:70 !  BTW, I love flush cutters - as well as many tools used for beadwork (the Admiral put me on to those).

 Johnny, thank you. At smaller scales ratline knots seem to be too large IMHO and detract from otherwise beautiful rigging. My dear wife was once a beader but had to gave it up due to her aging eyesight. Needless to say I liberated all of her tools. 

 

6 hours ago, TBlack said:

Nicely explained. And do I understand that you thread the ratline thru the shroud, not just touching it?

 Yes Tom, each shroud line is pierced. 

 

1 hour ago, TBlack said:

OK, so you're threading the ratline thru a shroud at 1:96. The shroud is, therefore, mighty thin. How do you keep from sticking your finger with the needle

 Tom, I hold onto the left side clip to provide resistance to the needle as it pierces the shrouds so my fingers are never in danger of being stuck unless I do something stupid like trying to pull the ratline thread through by holding onto the needle with bare fingers instead of using my needle nose pliers. I'm working at 1:120, Johnny mentioned that this method would work at 1:96 scale and smaller. I also keep my elbows firmly rested firmly on my worktable. 

 

 

5 hours ago, FlyingFish said:

So that's how you do it! Another peice of the puzzle solved. Thanks Keith!

 You're more than welcome Andy. I'm more than happy to pass on what was shared with me here on MSW.

 

1 hour ago, clearway said:

i berated my intelligence and ancestry shall we say! The ratlines look great Keith especially considering the scale you are working to.

 

 Thank you Keith. We can get caught up in the moment and do some goofy stuff, can't we. 

 

 Please don't try this method without first practicing on a test piece. You may find it too fiddly or it may not work for you for whatever reason.

Thank you to all for your comments, likes, and for following along. 

[Keith Black]

19 minutes ago, BANYAN said:

Looking good Keith; as others have said, your explanation for this process is very clear and well demonstrated. I continue to enjoy your updates.

 Thank you Pat. 

[GrandpaPhil]

The ratlines are looking good!

[KeithAug]

Keith - Interesting technique for the rat lines - must remember.

 

On 1/22/2023 at 7:56 PM, Keith Black said:

make sure my head is totally in the game.

I'm impressed - my head is rarely in the game for long periods these days!!!!!

[Keith Black]

On 1/23/2023 at 5:35 PM, GrandpaPhil said:

The ratlines are looking good!

 Thank you Phil. 

 

On 1/27/2023 at 4:05 PM, KeithAug said:

I'm impressed - my head is rarely in the game for long periods these days!!!!!

 Keith, I shorten game time by taking lots of breaks. 

 

 The main is ready to be rigged. I can't wait to fill the void that exist between the mizzen and main by adding the main's yards and adding running lines and stays. But, as excited as I am,  I'm going to wait and go ahead with the boring job of getting the fore ready for rigging. It was such a long period of time since I added the deadeyes and shrouds to the mizzen that I had to relearn a lot of the how to's and the little time saving tricks. 

 

 So, while I've got all the tools out for the job and while all is still fresh in my mind, I'll ready the barren fore with it's deadeyes and shrouds. 

 

 Thank you to all for the comments and likes and for dropping by.

  Keith

[wefalck]

Aren't you afraid that adding the stays later might pull (ever so slightly) the shrouds out of alignment and, hence, also the ratlines?

[Keith Black]

29 minutes ago, wefalck said:

Aren't you afraid that adding the stays later might pull (ever so slightly) the shrouds out of alignment and, hence, also the ratlines?

 Thank you Eberhard for making me aware of a possible issue. I worried about that when I was rigging the mizzen so I applied lots of pull both forward and and aft and got no deflection in the shroud lines. I did get some deflection in the running lines but they pulled taut when I tested the standing stays between the mizzen and main. Because I'm working aft to fore I feel confident that the forces on all the shrouds and running lines pull tight as they should when the stays get run to the bow and sprit. This is something I thought about and will watch as work progresses. Thank you again for asking.  

[clearway]

Looks crisp and clean Keityh.  I rig temporary fore stays while rigging the shrouds/ backstays to stop too much pulling out of line of the masts.

 

Keith

[FriedClams]

10 hours ago, Keith Black said:

But, as excited as I am,  I'm going to wait and go ahead with the boring job of getting the fore ready for rigging

Being pragmatic and logical can be such a drag sometimes.  I admire your discipline Keith.

 

Gary

[Keith Black]

Keith and Gary thank you for your comments and thank you to all for the likes.

 

 I managed to get the Mizzen ready to rig with passable results by shear beginners luck. With a little experience the Main went okay but I still had issues with the deadeyes not being as level as i would like them to be. For whatever reason the top deadeyes dropped in height ever so slightly as I worked my way from fore to aft. When I got to the Foremast I thought, I 'got this'. What a misguided thought that was as the modeling gods had other ideas.

 

 The Fore fought me till the bitter end. I lash both deadeye pairs before glueing them in their respective holes and then attach the shroud lines. It seemed like on ever pair I'd get glue on a bottom lashing line and had to fight to get the lashings pulled tight to secure the tail to the shroud. The port side shroud anchor eye pulled free when i was performing that relatively simple task. But I did manage to get the deadeyes level so in the end I had a small victory.

 

 The Fore is ready to be rigged. Before I can get giddy pulling line I need to strop and set the blocks around Main and Fore. I also have to finalize where to set the tie off eyes for both booms which isn't a big deal, it just needs to be done before the mast are set in place.

 

 Thank you to all for stopping by and thank you for your continued support.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Keith Black

[Knocklouder]

wow Keith I really like how you do things, and have dropped by from time to time and have tried to copied lots from your log thanks for your time and pictures. I am just starting to rig my Mayflower and these pictures will help lots thanks   

Edited March 7, 2023 by Knocklouder
typo sorry

[Glen McGuire]

Excellent work on those deadeyes, Keith!

[BANYAN]

You're making great progress and she is looking great Keith.  Very nice!

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

Great progress Keith.  She’s looking nice. Clean and sharp.  
 

Rob

[FriedClams]

Meticulous and clean work is always what I expect to find here.  Very nice progress Keith!

 

Gary 

[TBlack]

I’ll underscore your discipline, and perfection. Good going!

TB