HM Cutter Alert by VTHokiEE - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1:64

[DelF]

Shaping up nicely Tim.

 

8 hours ago, VTHokiEE said:

I also tried my hand at serving some rope and found out that I don't really know how to connect the ends into a circle,

I use a fine needle to take the end of the serving line through the rope being served a couple of times then apply a blob of fly tying glue or ca. Once you've finished serving the length you need, repeat the process with the other end of the serving line.  Once the glue is dry at both ends you can then trim the serving line. Others have suggested a half hitch to secure the serving line but that can look a bit bulky. 

 

1 hour ago, Blue Ensign said:

If you intend to serve the shrouds around the masthead they will take up far more room than the  kit indicated 4mm, I placed the stop 14mm below the cheeks.

It is also easier to fit the shrouds before adding the trestletrees;  seizing the pairs is easier off model, less tiring on the arms, they can then be slipped over the masthead.

I second B.E.'s comments. I had a debate with myself before gluing Speedy's  masts together but decided I could rig the shrouds on the model. I'm beginning to wish I'd followed B.E.'s recommendation, which was also my previous practice.

 

Derek

[VTHokiEE]

11 hours ago, Blue Ensign said:

Make sure you have enough space below the cheeks to allow for the shrouds and pendent of tackles (if you intend to fit them)

If you intend to serve the shrouds around the masthead they will take up far more room than the  kit indicated 4mm, I placed the stop 14mm below the cheeks.

It is also easier to fit the shrouds before adding the trestletrees;

I saw this in your build and was very thankful for it, the trestletrees are staying off until the shrouds are on.

 

I plan on mainly following the kit rigging, but I will be adding "small" additions like serving the shrouds. I'm currently hoping that my calculations and observations are correct but I am starting to think that they might be slightly off. I had counted 9 loops around the masthead from the manual but now that I'm looking at the plan page with the stays more closely it seems like there may be 3 more loops that could potentially go here as well (The plans show these higher - on the cheeks 🤔). I'm also noticing that the shrouds are a thicker line than I realized as well which may through off my calculations further. I was calculating around .65mm line which when served was closer to .8mm (I may need to find thinner serving thread), but the shroud plans call for .75mm line before serving. Now I have plenty to think about and consider if I should move the stops lower; I currently have them at 10mm but I think I probably would be better served (no pun intended) with a little extra room.

 

EDIT: I added around 4mm to the stop to give me some extra breathing room so I don't get made at myself in the future.

 

9 hours ago, DelF said:

Others have suggested a half hitch to secure the serving line but that can look a bit bulky. 

I think what I'm looking for is referenced in your Speedy log on October 16, but I'll have to read through it a few times to see. Essentially, I have my lines served and complete as you described but I need to create a continuous loop like the two lower blocks in the second picture of my post above (connect the two served lines together to make a ring... boy the more I write the more I realize I am terrible at explaining things, thank goodness I'm not a teacher 😂).

Edited November 2, 2020 by VTHokiEE

[DelF]

Sorry Tim, I misunderstood. I thought you were looking for a way to fix the ends of the serving line so it didn't unravel on the rope being served. My method works for unserved rope, but to create a served strop, which I think is what you're looking for, a better method might be to leave the serving line long at both ends, bring the two ends of the rope together to form the strop, and use the spare line to seize over the gap.   

 

There's a very good description of this technique in Volume lV of The Fully Framed Model, which covers rigging. I found this volume invaluable when I rigged Royal Caroline and I would strongly recommend it if it's not already in your library. The first 3 volumes of the series are also excellent, but only really relevant if you intend to build a fully framed model.

 

Derek

[VTHokiEE]

40 minutes ago, DelF said:

Sorry Tim, I misunderstood...There's a very good description of this technique in Volume lV of The Fully Framed Model, which covers rigging.

No problem, and of course there was a used copy of this for sale here recently; I'll have to keep my eye out (or ask for one for Christmas 🙂).

 

44 minutes ago, DelF said:

create a served strop, which I think is what you're looking for, a better method might be to leave the serving line long at both ends, bring the two ends of the rope together to form the strop, and use the spare line to seize over the gap

This I think is what I am envisioning, I'll have to do some practicing and see what happens, appreciate it!

[VTHokiEE]

There have been several step along the way that have "kept" me up at night. First would certainly have been planking, but next in the list would be tapering dowels. I was very uncomfortable about how to best go about this step. Ultimately, I used my trusty cordless drill and my digital caliper. I cut off a section of dowel long enough to have some stock in the drill and then used 80 grit, followed by 120 grit and finishing things off with 320 grit sand paper. I did dabble with files, but in the end various widths of sand paper worked best for me (watch out when you taper near the drill as the opposite end can flail wildly and snap off leaving you with a yard that may or may not be about 4 mm shorter than the plan calls for, but I digress).

Then I painted the yards, blacked the stops/cleats/eyebolts/etc, glued them on and touched everything up.

 

Now instead of a lathe I think I'm back to looking at the MF70 or similar to use a compound table to accurately align and drill the holes (I don't have a drill press and a small mill seems more functional in the long run but it's all a dream as now). Overall I think they came out pretty well, especially will how fearful I was of the end result.

 

Right now I'm serving the rope for the first shrouds. Once I get these two done I think I'm ready to put the hull back on the table (really looking forward to that).

[Rustyj]

Very nice masts and spars. It is something I think we all do a little differently and you seem to have

found out what works for you. That's what's important. Each time you do it it'll get easier and easier.

Well done!

[Old Collingwood]

Some nice masts there mate  - and very tidy serving.

 

OC.

[VTHokiEE]

Thanks Rusty and OC!

 

Of course right after posting I hit a snag. I should not have attached the cheeks, if I make the shroud loop off the mast I can’t fit it over the cheeks 😕. I glued those on pretty well but with PVA so I’m hesitant to remove them.

 

Right now I’m attaching one of the shrouds (or whenever I finish it) and we’ll see how it looks when I’m done before I consider pulling off the cheeks. Also not certain how the seizing looks, but I think it’s okay.

 

 

[VTHokiEE]

I think it will work out fine without removing the cheeks, simply a little slower. I have the first shrouds attached to the mast and will press forward with the remaining shrouds and stays. I'm following the order and arrangement from the AotS book for this (which diverts slightly from the kit instructions).

Everything certainly seems fuzzier under a macro lens (FYI - this is all using Mara thread).

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by VTHokiEE

[Old Collingwood]

Very nice rope work   - that serving looks just about perfect.

 

OC.

[VTHokiEE]

4 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

Very nice rope work   - that serving looks just about perfect.

 

OC.

Thank you OC that means a lot! 

[BobG]

The servings on your shrouds look great. I really enjoy using Chuck's serving machine.

[DelF]

Just catching up Tim - excellent work on your spars and serving.

 

Derek

[glbarlow]

On 11/15/2020 at 1:18 PM, VTHokiEE said:

cordless drill and my digital caliper

I recently bought a lathe I don’t know how to use yet, up to now I’ve used your same method for years. You’ve done it well, your masts and spars look great as does your serving.

 

I don’t know how Chris describes it in the instructions but typically shrouds are a doubled, one line from dead eye, up around mast, back down to the next dead eye then that now double line seized at the mast.  Maybe I’m missing something.

Edited November 21, 2020 by glbarlow

[VTHokiEE]

5 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I don’t know how Chris describes it in the instructions but typically shrouds are a doubled,

The manual describes that exact method. I, for better or for worse, diverged from that to follow the AotS rigging here.

 

The first shroud is a single (and I served the entire length following BE’s log), then the 2nd and 3rd are doubled together as are the 4th and 5th. Then the backstays are single again. I have all these attached so hopefully I’ll have a picture soon.

[VTHokiEE]

On 11/16/2020 at 10:43 PM, BobG said:

The servings on your shrouds look great. I really enjoy using Chuck's serving machine.

Thanks Bob - I do enjoy Chuck's tools. The rope walk is a lot of fun (if that's the right word?) as well. Every time I use it I think I get better results.

 

Thanks Derek and Glenn as well and for all the likes!

 

As stated above, I used the AotS book for the shroud and backstay arrangement. Even without serving the ropes I feel like the 4mm of space from the instructions would be tight; I highly recommend adding some room here. for the seizing I used a needle to thread the line through the served rope at the start of the seizing and then to half square knots on top and below before finishing with a square knot (below), adding a drop of fly tying glue and trimming the ends. The fly tying glue does darken the line, but it is not that noticeable unless you are looking for it (or get close and use flash on your camera). 

 

With the mast up, I'm scratching my chin a little trying to determine how to get the deadeyes on. I'm postponing this by practicing making a loop for them on a spare piece of rope (and eventually a jig for height). I think actually placing the deadeyes on the shrouds might have to wait until I get a solid chunk of time to devote. My spider-sense is warning me of some frustration is ahead 😁, but as with all the steps prior, once I find the right routine for me that'll pass as well.

 

 

[Blue Ensign]

All looking good to my eye Tim, nicely done. 👍

 

B. E.

[Gregory]

Really looking nice.

 

Chuck is my go to for how things should look, but unlike his planking info, he doesn't go into a lot of detail about how he does rigging.

He does provide a lot of good images about how it should look.

 

 

Something to strive for..

[VTHokiEE]

36 minutes ago, Gregory said:

He does provide a lot of good images about how it should look.

That’s a really nice shot; certainly something to aim for. It does raise a question though. On a lot of other images I see that the deadeyes have been seized with natural line, but here Chuck used darker line. I wonder why the difference?

[Gregory]

I think some may go for contrast, while others think in terms of the siezings having been tarred along with the shrouds.

You will see a lot of variation on contemporary models as well.

It's a matter of preference..

[Old Collingwood]

Very nice work mate  - with the shrouds  I made mine  the same colour for all,    and with the  spacing of the deadeyes  I used some thick wire with a 90deg bend at each end  - I used this to attach at both ends to try to get an even gap between the "Eyes"

 

OC.

[Gazzarian]

Your model is looking wonderful, and when - if - i get to the rigging stage I'll be reading your blog very closely, so thank you!

[VTHokiEE]

50 minutes ago, Gazzarian said:

when - if - i get to the rigging stage

Thank you! How is yours coming along? For me the key to rigging is taking a deep breathe and allowing yourself to slowdown. Unfortunately, I wasn't a huge fan of the rope that came in the kit so I'm replacing it all (I read that newer kits will have updated rope which I want to point out in case anyone reads this in the future).

[Gazzarian]

Thanks mate! I went a bit off piste with mine but that phase is over and am back to following the instructions! However have been distracted by other things and haven't done much recently. I hope I'll be able to post some updates on my log before too long, but it's definitely a learning process for me, I ain't doing as well as you and others on here!

[VTHokiEE]

14 minutes ago, Gazzarian said:

I ain't doing as well as you and others on here

As long as you are enjoying it then it is all good and the next one will be even better!

 

I do have an update today. The shrouds scared me so I did what I assume everyone does and procrastinate and do something else such as finish the mast.

 

Of course procrastinating only helps for so long and eventually I had to buckle in and attach a deadeye. I followed a tutorial by @DelF which led me to an idea for a jig. I drilled a hole for a dowel that was slightly smaller than the deadeye to wrap the shroud around. I also drilled a small hole to press a threaded needle through to hold the loop in place (I have my fingers crossed that this gets my deadeyes close to level).

 

By the way - How exactly does one tie off the rigging through the deadeye? I plan on leaving the line somewhat lose until all the shrouds are up (and I'm still hesitant to trim the shroud until I have a few more on to make certain that I'm happy), but it'd be good to get a plan in place I assume.

[Gregory]

Looks really good so far.

 

From Mondfeld.   This seems to be pretty typical of examples I have seen..

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Gregory

[BobG]

I'm just getting caught up on your build and your Alert is looking fantastic! I'm going to try that Floo Gloo Fly Tying Cement also. The rope looks great with it. Where were you able to find it?

Edited November 24, 2020 by BobG

[Gazzarian]

What a great idea for the deadeyes! Looks much more solid than a bent piece of wire.

 

By the way, going back earlier in your build, were you able to drill holes for pins in the edges of the channels? That's where I am and the wood looks very thin for drilling holes in the edge.

[VTHokiEE]

41 minutes ago, Gregory said:

This seems to be pretty typical of examples I have seen..

Awesome, thank you!

 

37 minutes ago, BobG said:

The rope looks great with it. Where were you able to find it?

Thanks Bob! That glue is great, I’m using it a good deal and you only need a drop so it goes a long way. I purchased the Rope Walk from Syren and have been making my rope from Gutermann Mara thread in my garage 🙂. If you’re interested let me know and I’d be glad to share what I’ve learned.

 

35 minutes ago, Gazzarian said:

were you able to drill holes for pins in the edges of the channels?

Yes, I buy these 0.3mm - 1.3mm drill bits in bulk for things like this. I forget exactly but the nails in the kit are 0.7mm (I think) so I would’ve used at most a 0.8mm bit for the pins. Then I clipped off the top on the pin and pushed it into the holes. I used this to then mark the holes on the hull before drilling those out as well. I believe you are skipping the cannons, but you may still want to keep an eye on the deadeye alignment with the gun ports (...maybe).

[BobG]

6 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

Thanks Bob! That glue is great,

I've looked for it on the internet and can only find it form vendors in Europe. Were you able to find it in the USA?