themadchemist Posted May 12, 2013 Share #391 Posted May 12, 2013 So is the book all full colour pic's Andy? and now I know where the phase "The whole nine yards" comes from.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share #392 Posted May 12, 2013 Unfortunately not, just the last section. But there's so much other text that makes it worth while. And if I'm not mistaken, "the whole nine yards" refers to the length of the ammo belt of the Vickers machine gun. In WW I trench warfare, going the whole nine yards meant you really where laying some heavy fire on the enemy... At least that's the story I've been told... Andy Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted May 12, 2013 Share #393 Posted May 12, 2013 Thanks, Ham (you don't mind Ham? ) Lots of folks call me "Hammy", so Ham suits me fine! Enjoying your build greatly, Ham or no.... hamilton realworkingsailor 1 Quote current builds: Corel HMS Bellona (1780); Admiralty models Echo cross-section (semi-scratch) previous builds: MS Phantom (scuttled, 2017); MS Sultana (1767); Corel Brittany Sloop (scuttled, 2022); MS Kate Cory; MS Armed Virginia Sloop (in need of a refit); Corel Flattie; Mamoli Gretel; Amati Bluenose (1921) (scuttled, 2023); AL San Francisco (destroyed by land krakens [i.e., cats]); Corel Toulonnaise (1823); MS Glad Tidings (1937) (in need of a refit); HMS Blandford (1719) from Corel HMS Greyhound; Fair Rosamund (1832) from OcCre Dos Amigos (missing in action); Amati Hannah (ship in a bottle); Mamoli America (1851); Bluenose fishing schooner (1921) (scratch); Off-Centre Sailing Skiff (scratch) under the bench: MS Emma C Barry; MS USS Constitution; MS Flying Fish; Corel Berlin; a wood supplier Colonial Schooner Hannah; Victory Models H.M.S. Fly; CAF Models HMS Granado; MS USS Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadchemist Posted May 12, 2013 Share #394 Posted May 12, 2013 Wow nine yards of bullets would be alot of bullets, bet that heated the gun barrels up. I always wonder where strange phrases and words come from. Sometime from some very interetsing places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share #395 Posted May 12, 2013 Wow nine yards of bullets would be alot of bullets, bet that heated the gun barrels up. I always wonder where strange phrases and words come from. Sometime from some very interetsing places. As a further aside, the Vickers gun was liquid cooled, through a siphon hose under the barrel, which lead to a jerry can of water. And although cumbersome, probably enabled a longer firing period. In addition to all that, I'll have a few more update photos of my build later this morning. Andy Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted May 12, 2013 Share #396 Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) Andy- that Vickers thing may be true. But 9 yards is also (supposedly) the length of the ammo belt for wing-mounted guns in WW II- not a lot of space in there. It's controversial but does appear to come out of WWII. Edited May 12, 2013 by Augie Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share #397 Posted May 12, 2013 Well, like most "myths" there is a modicum of truth to it... I dare say that one way or another, "the whole nine yards" has something to do with ammo belts of machine guns. And there's probably enough anecdotal evidence to support both sides. Andy Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted May 12, 2013 Share #398 Posted May 12, 2013 http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/nineyards.htm Quote Its all part of Kev's journey, bit like going to the dark side, but with the lights on All the best Kevin SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On the build table HMS Indefatigable 1794 by Kevin - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Feb 2023 HMHS Britannic by Kevin SD 14 - Marcle Models - 1/70 - March 2022 - Bluebell - Flower Class - Revel - 1/72 U552 German U Boat - Trumpeter - 1/48 Amerigo Vespucci 1/84 - Panart- HMS Enterprise -CAF - 1/48 Finished St-Nectan-Mountfleet-models-steam-trawler-1/32 - Completed June 2020 HMS Victory - Caldercraft/Jotika - 1/72 - Finished Dorade renamed Dora by Kevin - Amati - 1/20 - Completed March 2021 Stage Coach 1848 - Artesania Latina - 1/10 -Finished Lady Eleanor by Kevin - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1/64 - Fifie fishing boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted May 12, 2013 Share #399 Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) Where did the expression "the whole 9 yards come from"? Whole nine yards & dressed to the ninesComment from Howard MacGregor in the Niagara Region of Canada: I was told many years ago that the phrase started in the 19th or maybe 18th century and it had to do with women's gloves that went up to the elbows when they went to gala events such as balls and tea at the palace and that those gloves had nine buttons so some occasions meant they had to "dress to the nines."Comment from Lance: And this, nine yards applies to just the shirt. The more fabric in the shirt, the wealthier you were. It was against the law to wear a shirt made of more material than your class was permitted.Comment from Brian Morris: I have heard that the saying the whole 9 yards comes from WWII days when the aircraft guns had their bullets in strings of 27 feet. When you went through all of your bullets, you went through the whole 9 yards.Comment from David Whyte: Apparently, in early England, an entire load of coal for heating was carried in a container that was nine yards long. Most people could not afford it, but if you could, you would take 'the whole nine yards'. I have no idea of the validity of the story, but it seems reasonable.Comment from Colin: Last night I was having some beers with a few USAF pilots. One insisted that the whole nine yards comes from the B-52. It's bomb-bay is 9 yards long and the phrase would then refer to dropping all the bombs from the bay. Another guy insisted that the phrase comes from WWI when the machine gunners would be issued nine yards of belted-ammunition at a time.Rosemary wrote: I have been sewing for 30 years, and cannot conceive of the largest-size shirt in the fullest possible cut using up more than half that amount! Unless perhaps the fabric is only a yard wide, or even 25" wide, both of which were not unusual in my grandmother's day. (Hence the expression "all wool and a yard wide" - not a cheap wool blend and only 25" wide.) However, it is quite conceivable that an average-size, moderately-tailored trousers, waistcoat, and vest would use up 9 yards. Brad Bellows claims the 9 yards would also include an overcoat, but I don't believe a full-grown man could get all 4 items out of 9 yards of fabric unless the fabric were much wider than is sold today.Lawrence says: I've heard that the whole 9 yards comes from the contents of cement trucks - a full load being 9 cubic yards of cement.Charles B: I was taught that the "Whole Nine Yards" refers to American football. On second down you go the distance for another first down instead of slugging it out for a couple of yards at a time.Bob Bledsoe" This may be a corruption of the Middle English "to then eyne" (to the eyes). I have heard "the whole nine yards" came from the amount of cloth on a bolt. When someone wanted to make sure they had enough cloth the got the "whole nine yards."Robert: from good authority, I hear tell that the phrase comes from the Scottish Kilt. In a proper kilt (including all the pleats) there should be 9 yards of material. Anything less is seen as not a proper kilt. Hence the phrase. 9 yards for a shirt seems a bit much.Charles B: "Dressed to the nines" refers to the theater in Shakespeare's time when the price of a seat depended on how close it was to the stage. The farthest seats were one pence and the closest seats were nine pence. If you sat in the expensive seats you dressed up so as not to look out of place with the other wealthy patrons.Even more from Ron: In most of India the everyday sari worn by women is made of material six yards in length. However, for weddings and special occasions, saris of nine yards are used. Hence, for these special occasions one goes 'the whole nine yards'. This could just be another example of the myriad influences the British inherited by controlling India for two centuries.Ron wrote: I'd just like to add to the confusion of the origin of 'whole nine yards'. In most of India the everyday sari worn by women is made of material six yards in length. However, for weddings and special occasions, saris of nine yards are used. Hence, for these special occasions, one goes "'the whole nine yards." This could just be another example of the myriad influences the British inherited by controlling India for two centuries. Edited May 12, 2013 by Kevin Quote Its all part of Kev's journey, bit like going to the dark side, but with the lights on All the best Kevin SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On the build table HMS Indefatigable 1794 by Kevin - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Feb 2023 HMHS Britannic by Kevin SD 14 - Marcle Models - 1/70 - March 2022 - Bluebell - Flower Class - Revel - 1/72 U552 German U Boat - Trumpeter - 1/48 Amerigo Vespucci 1/84 - Panart- HMS Enterprise -CAF - 1/48 Finished St-Nectan-Mountfleet-models-steam-trawler-1/32 - Completed June 2020 HMS Victory - Caldercraft/Jotika - 1/72 - Finished Dorade renamed Dora by Kevin - Amati - 1/20 - Completed March 2021 Stage Coach 1848 - Artesania Latina - 1/10 -Finished Lady Eleanor by Kevin - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1/64 - Fifie fishing boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share #400 Posted May 12, 2013 In other words, where that expression came from is subject to various interpretations... and the actual origins may never be precisely known. Andy Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted May 12, 2013 Share #401 Posted May 12, 2013 Yeah....but I like my explanation so I'm stickin' with it Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share #402 Posted May 12, 2013 Ok, Augie, you do that then And now for the promised photos... Assembled the topmast crosstrees and trestle trees. Just dry fit to the topmasts for now. Got all the wooldings done on the mainmast, and the additional woolding at the top of the mizzen mast. (Not shown on the plans, but form TFFM IV) And then I felt a little energetic so I turned a dowel (also known as the mizzen topmast) into a tooth pick without breaking it.... whew... Andy popeye the sailor and janos 2 Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadchemist Posted May 12, 2013 Share #403 Posted May 12, 2013 interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted May 12, 2013 Share #404 Posted May 12, 2013 Nice masting work, Andy.. as for the expression.. here's Snopes take on it: http://www.snopes.com/language/phrases/nineyards.asp Yer right, the origins will probably never be known. Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted May 12, 2013 Share #405 Posted May 12, 2013 A late entrant into the 'full nine yards' controversy. A Vickers machine gun ammunition belt held 250 rounds and was 20 feet long when empty (shorter when loaded) and so was 7 feet short of nine yards. The U.S. Browning .50 machine gun however, had a metal link belt of 350 rounds which, at 13 rounds per foot, gives 351 rounds exactly for nine yards. Make of it what you will! John PS. Nice masts, Andy! augie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted May 12, 2013 Share #406 Posted May 12, 2013 John make not like cats.....but he sure as heck knows his belt size. Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share #407 Posted May 13, 2013 Hmm...so maybe I'm wrong about the Vickers then.... But it seems the origins of the phrase are still, and forever shall be, shrouded in mystery... Much to the chagrin, consternation, frustration, and obfuscation of all and sundry... And maybe sometime we'll see if I can throw out any more large words in one sentence... Andy mtaylor 1 Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted May 13, 2013 Share #408 Posted May 13, 2013 I are impressed Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share #409 Posted May 13, 2013 "Me fail English? That's unpossible" mtaylor, newbuilder101, flyer and 1 other 4 Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted May 13, 2013 Share #410 Posted May 13, 2013 Andy, You've obviously read that popular book, "How to talk gooder English." John realworkingsailor, mtaylor, newbuilder101 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjdale Posted May 13, 2013 Share #411 Posted May 13, 2013 John, You're standing into danger again. Much closer and we'll have to introduce him to that other popular book "Let Stalk Strine". That's right up there with the Drop Bears! Oh, nice masts Andy! trippwj 1 Quote Grant ____________________________________________________ Current builds: African Queen - Radio Control / Live Steam Previous builds: The Shipyard at Foss' Landing (Diorama), Hannah - Ship in a Bottle, NRG Capstan Project, 1869 Allerton Steam Pumper, Medway Longboat , Alfa Romeo Spider Gran Touring (Pocher) , Da Vinci Flying Machine, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout - Dumas - Radio, Bomb Vessel Granado, 1742 - Cross Section - Scratchbuild, HMS Victory (Mamoli 1:90), Cutty Sark, Armed Pinnace, Bounty, Santa Maria At another place: Stephenson's Rocket (OcCre 1:24) (click the title to follow the link) In the Gallery: Lancia Armata 1803, Bomb Vessel Granada, 1742 Cross Section, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted May 13, 2013 Share #412 Posted May 13, 2013 John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share #413 Posted May 13, 2013 I'll have to haul out my Newfy-English, English-Newfy dictionnary... Andy trippwj 1 Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted May 13, 2013 Share #414 Posted May 13, 2013 Hi Andy, Well, there I was just a few days abroad and coming back I find that you have already half finished masting and rigging your Pegasus! You had a really impressing start into that sometimes exhausting chapter! Noticing that you use wood for mast bands I’d like to point to alternatives: Some use styrene stripes which handle perhaps easier and I prefer cartridge paper for all parts which where iron bands in the original. This handles easily and simulates iron quite well, even before coloring it. I’ll try some acrylic to smoothen my ropes – that seems a splendid idea. And you even have some time to improve your English! I will with all force try my swinglish minimum on the level yours canadinglish to hold. (Perhaps you know the story of that Alitalia pilot misunderstanding all his radio calls from New York tower, blundering across their airspace and making a mess of his flying until finally an unnerved controller told him: ‘Alitalia, before you come here again – learn some English!’ Then a very British voice cut into the frequency: ‘You call THAT English, sir?’) Cheers Peter trippwj and realworkingsailor 2 Quote current build: The Naval Cutter Alert by flyer - Vanguard Models - scale 1:64 completed builds: HMS Bellerophon by flyer - Victory Models - scale 1:72 Yacht America by flyer - Mamoli - scale 1:66 - with some alterations Dolphyn Corel 1/50 Wasa Corel 1/75 La Gloire C.Mamoli 1/90 HM Bomb Vessel Granado JoTiKa HM Bomb Vessel Granado 1756 CC kit 1:64 Victory Models 1/64 HMS Pegasus by Flyer HMS Pickle, my interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trippwj Posted May 13, 2013 Share #415 Posted May 13, 2013 Why you gonna do that, eh? Quote WayneNeither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.Epictetus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share #416 Posted May 13, 2013 Peter, I find myself far from the half-way point... But inexorably beyond the point of no return I had no issues with the strip wood that I used for the mast bands. Being a wood to wood bond, PVA glue worked well... As for the acrylic, for anyone that is interested, I picked up a 1/2L bottle of Scenic Express Matte Medium yesterday for $6.00... Considering a 1/2oz bottle of Polyscale clear matte acrylic is around $3.00, you can see the economies gained. Andy Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shazmira Posted May 13, 2013 Share #417 Posted May 13, 2013 Gee a go away for a couple of days and you all forget everything you have learned ! I would say you all need a bit of an English refresher course . There appears to be way to many split in infinitives and dangling modifiers for my liking . However, as I am set to begin my summer break in a couple of days you will just have to find another English teacher who is willing to take up your cause BTW Andy the work you are doing on your masts looks awesome! realworkingsailor and mtaylor 2 Quote Robbyn If you risk nothing, you risk everything! Current builds Syren (Model Shipways) version 2.0 AL San Francisco II Mordaunt (Euro Model) Completed Builds 18th Century Longboat designed by Chuck Passaro In the closet Battle Station Al Charles Morgan (1980s version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realworkingsailor Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share #418 Posted May 13, 2013 Hmmm... I guess my masts are the afterthought of the day.... mtaylor 1 Quote Quando Omni Flunkus, Moritati Current Build: USF Confederacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted May 13, 2013 Share #419 Posted May 13, 2013 Is that in the pluperfect subjunctive? gjdale and newbuilder101 2 Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trippwj Posted May 13, 2013 Share #420 Posted May 13, 2013 Andy - your masts demonstrate a magnificent grasp of the idiosyncratic application of innovative and illusory technical nuances to achieve a subtle yet accurate appearance. The workmanship remains of the highest quality while your intuitive use of color and application of artistic skill brings a harmonious brilliance which perpetuates the illusion of reality. Inexorably, you continue to provide an education to those of us yearning for enlightenment. Translation - looking really good, I like the mast bands and will continue to watch and learn from your build. Pretty good for a yankee, eh? gjdale, mtaylor, realworkingsailor and 2 others 5 Quote WayneNeither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.Epictetus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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