Duchess of Kingston c.1780 by James H - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1:64

[glbarlow]

So many clever designs in this model, Chris finds the way to show a detailed model everyone can build, regardless of skill level, and enjoy doing it.  

[Richmond]

I was struggling to locate this ship on https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=ships_search has anyone more information on it - type of ship etc

[amateur]

As I understood, it is a fictitious name, for a ship based on real contenporeneous drawings. I tried to locate the drawings in the NMM-archive, but there are so many that I did not succeed (so far)

 

Jan

[James H]

1 hour ago, amateur said:

As I understood, it is a fictitious name, for a ship based on real contenporeneous drawings. I tried to locate the drawings in the NMM-archive, but there are so many that I did not succeed (so far)

 

Jan

That's correct. 

 

Royal/aristocratic yachts tended to be named after the person they were built for, such as the Royal Caroline which became Royal Charlotte for George III's wife.

 

As this was built for the Duchess of Kingston, I suppose it's as good a name as any for the vessel.

[Richmond]

Sorry, to clarify, it is based a on a real ship, but with a fictitious name, do we know which ship it is based on?

[chris watton]

12 minutes ago, Richmond said:

Sorry, to clarify, it is based a on a real ship, but with a fictitious name, do we know which ship it is based on?

In lieu of a name, the actual title I gave the model is 'HM Royal Yacht (built for) The Duchess of Kingston

 

I do not see anything fictitious about that, as this is what is written on the actual plans

 

ETA - This isn't in my Sailing Navy List book too, but the NMM do have the plans, albeit just the one sheet. 

[James H]

Time for an update.

 

I actually built most of this a. couple of weeks ago, in between tasks on the hull. I'm still doing that with other stuff at the moment whilst I add the rails and wales to the model and ready her for painting white underneath.

 

These are just a small selection the photos I've done for these fittings, but you'll get a general idea.

 

Cannon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gallows/Bitts

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steps/Stairs

 

 

 

 

 

Binnacle

 

 

Coamings

 

 

 

 

Not too much to say for these purposes, but they will have detailed text on how to make each item in the instructions. 

 

I'll do another update next week.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DelF]

2 hours ago, chris watton said:

the NMM do have the plans, albeit just the one sheet. 

I assume this is the one : https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/460861.html ?

[Richmond]

Quote

In lieu of a name, the actual title I gave the model is 'HM Royal Yacht (built for) The Duchess of Kingston

 

I do not see anything fictitious about that, as this is what is written on the actual plans 

 

ETA - This isn't in my Sailing Navy List book too, but the NMM do have the plans, albeit just the one sheet. 

Apologies if this came over the wrong way I was just trying to classify the model in Scalemates - I will will leave it where it is on the generic sailing ship category

[chris watton]

2 minutes ago, DelF said:

I assume this is the one : https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/460861.html ?

Yep, that's what I used for the basis of this kit.

[chris watton]

30 minutes ago, Richmond said:

Apologies if this came over the wrong way I was just trying to classify the model in Scalemates - I will will leave it where it is on the generic sailing ship category

No problem, I didn't mean to appear curt, it was frustrating not being able to find any real history of the vessel, but it definitely was built for the Duchess of Kingston by Hillhouse of Bristol.

 

ETA - I have attached the nameplate that comes with the stand..

[James H]

49 minutes ago, Richmond said:

Apologies if this came over the wrong way I was just trying to classify the model in Scalemates - I will will leave it where it is on the generic sailing ship category

 

I've already made a Scalemates entry. Does it need amending?

[glbarlow]

I don’t quite understand the need for some to doubt or question the details or overall accuracy of Chris’ designs. Time and again he has demonstrated the work he puts in to his models being historically relevant and accurate to the degree he can make them based on the research information available. I’d think we’d all be pleased that is offering a unusual model like this, properly named, yacht based on an actual NMM available draft and not quibble over things that simply don’t matter.  It’s.a.model.

 

That said, I’m also not a fan of the flat ring bolts or belaying pins, mostly because they are flat. I’ll simply find or make my own alternatives. 

[AlanDavison]

PE is absolutely fine by me.

I think that the more detailed and accurate the design the more people will search for faults. Human nature I guess!

No one and no kit can be absolutely 100%, but I also think that Chris is having a good go.

Once you've rigged a canon you can hardly noice whether the ring bolt is round or flat, after all we are talking 1/64 scale (5ft4ins to the inch), if it were 1/24 (2ft to the inch) it might be a different matter. 

Design has to stop somewhere when producing a commercial kit. I an sure Chris could produce a true to scale kit using iron in stead of brass, copper plates of scale thickness with scale nails, decking plank with scale treenails etc; if he had a mind, but then how much would it cost and how long would it take to develop.

So let's not be super critical and be thankful we have a innovative designer producing sate of the art models.  

[VTHokiEE]

11 hours ago, James H said:

 

Did you have to file the top bit (Well right below the top bit) to remove the laser char and get the right shape?

 

Edit: Are you planning on painting the gun carriages? How do you do that with the eye bolts in? Also what paint do you use that doesn’t need the char removed (asking for a friend)?

[James H]

29 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

Did you have to file the top bit (Well right below the top bit) to remove the laser char and get the right shape?

 

Edit: Are you planning on painting the gun carriages? How do you do that with the eye bolts in? Also what paint do you use that doesn’t need the char removed (asking for a friend)?

 

I did remove the laser char and also used a small tungsten carbide file to add the same profile the other sides of the parts too. 

 

No paint for the gun carriages. They'll be in plain wood, the same as the inner bulwarks. We figured the red was more suited to a fighting vessel.

[VTHokiEE]

5 minutes ago, James H said:

No paint for the gun carriages.

Oh okay, contemplate removing the char there at all? Or does it maybe fit in there...?

[James H]

2 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

Oh okay, contemplate removing the char there at all? Or does it maybe fit in there...?

 

I did think about that. I suppose it's down to the individual. Removing char from cross-grain is harder than 'with grain', and bearing in mind that I need to move quickly with this model, I took the decision to leave it, as per Chris's design prototype. There's no reason why a modeller can't remove all char as they've more time to do this than I have.

[chris watton]

For this prototype model, I wanted the least amount of paint we could get away with, as the contrasts of the colours with the pear work very well, I think. The pear is a nice colour and closer grained than standard kit fare (walnut/basswood), and I wanted to show this as much as possible. It seems the white, black, red, blue and gold go well with the wood.

 

But of course, the modeller can paint the model however they wish, depending on preference - paint schemes for such vessels should only be treated as guidelines . But I do feel in this instance, the less paint used, the better.

[Thunder]

On 8/29/2020 at 3:38 PM, glbarlow said:

I don’t quite understand the need for some to doubt or question the details or overall accuracy of Chris’ designs. Time and again he has demonstrated the work he puts in to his models being historically relevant and accurate to the degree he can make them based on the research information available. I’d think we’d all be pleased that is offering a unusual model like this, properly named, yacht based on an actual NMM available draft and not quibble over things that simply don’t matter.  It’s.a.model.

 

That said, I’m also not a fan of the flat ring bolts or belaying pins, mostly because they are flat. I’ll simply find or make my own alternatives. 

Perhaps they were not criticisms but 'input'. It was not a design being questioned and I said it was a tiny remark referring to the housing joint should be a stopped joint not a through housing which could be impossible at that scale and with a laser.  Thought worth mentioning rather than being spotted later when people think the deck placements need altering because they assume the whole slot needs filling with the cross beam. At this stage we do not know what images and drawings are in the instructions to cover this, but again, a well meant remark, could highlight that for you and image is well worth including.

 

 

Surely half the point of putting on here and the build is to iron out any potential issues before putting into full production.

 

I can understand why you don't want long discussion on something such as eyebolts spoiling the thread but removing well meant  comments about something you disagree with because you have misread the intent gives an all together different impression.

 

Don't worry I will not make any more comments, and you can remove this, but I feel, if you do this to all modellers, you are losing a valuable and free resource. 

 

Chris, it was the bitts I meant and yes I have seen the Bounty. The Gallows are exquisite and really love the touch of the compass in the binnacle and the way the spiral stairs are done.

[James H]

18 minutes ago, Thunder said:

Perhaps they were not criticisms but 'input'. It was not a design being questioned and I said it was a tiny remark referring to the housing joint should be a stopped joint not a through housing which could be impossible at that scale and with a laser.  Thought worth mentioning rather than being spotted later when people think the deck placements need altering because they assume the whole slot needs filling with the cross beam. At this stage we do not know what images and drawings are in the instructions to cover this, but again, a well meant remark, could highlight that for you and image is well worth including.

 

 

Surely half the point of putting on here and the build is to iron out any potential issues before putting into full production.

 

I can understand why you don't want long discussion on something such as eyebolts spoiling the thread but removing well meant  comments about something you disagree with because you have misread the intent gives an all together different impression.

 

Don't worry I will not make any more comments, and you can remove this, but I feel, if you do this to all modellers, you are losing a valuable and free resource. 

 

Chris, it was the bitts I meant and yes I have seen the Bounty. The Gallows are exquisite and really love the touch of the compass in the binnacle and the way the spiral stairs are done.

 

I'm pretty sure Chris said this was already sorted on the production parts.

 

[Thunder]

I thought he mentioned something about the Gallows but not certain now.

[Thunder]

Sorry got to ask this! The eyebolts before applied look flat but when on the gun carriages look just like the correct wrought iron ones in use during this period. Did you have to fettle them to get this look? I like the way they are solid and not obvious wire loops with an open end pushed together. 

[James H]

8 minutes ago, Thunder said:

Sorry got to ask this! The eyebolts before applied look flat but when on the gun carriages look just like the correct wrought iron ones in use during this period. Did you have to fettle them to get this look? I like the way they are solid and not obvious wire loops with an open end pushed together. 

 

They are just cut from the sheets and glued in, followed by a lick of Vallejo black acrylic paint. You can blacken them in a solution beforehand though.

[Vane]

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2020 at 9:06 AM, Thunder said:

Perhaps they were not criticisms but 'input'. It was not a design being questioned and I said it was a tiny remark referring to the housing joint should be a stopped joint not a through housing which could be impossible at that scale and with a laser.  Thought worth mentioning rather than being spotted later when people think the deck placements need altering because they assume the whole slot needs filling with the cross beam. At this stage we do not know what images and drawings are in the instructions to cover this, but again, a well meant remark, could highlight that for you and image is well worth including.

 

 

Surely half the point of putting on here and the build is to iron out any potential issues before putting into full production.

 

I can understand why you don't want long discussion on something such as eyebolts spoiling the thread but removing well meant  comments about something you disagree with because you have misread the intent gives an all together different impression.

 

Don't worry I will not make any more comments, and you can remove this, but I feel, if you do this to all modellers, you are losing a valuable and free resource. 

 

Chris, it was the bitts I meant and yes I have seen the Bounty. The Gallows are exquisite and really love the touch of the compass in the binnacle and the way the spiral stairs are done.

In my buildlog on the "early" Speedy, I "critizised" some fragile parts in MDF and now they have been replaced by stronger birchwoods in the new edition and in the Flirt kit. So I dont think Chris has any problems accepting input on his designs. But of course, its still just kits that cant be perfectly designed on every count and suite everybody. I cant say I like the look on every lasercutted part that is produced, but generally I really like the Vanguard product strategy to make the build as easy as possible for the builder.  If I dont like a part, I always have the option of scratchbuilding it myself.

And its great to actually be able to discuss with the designer in real time as the models progress. Not many other companies provide that kind of service....    

[MadDogMcQ]

Wonderful build, very much enjoying this 🙂

[James H]

Time for a quick pause and another update. 

 

The hull has changed enough for me to merit uploading a few images of my progress, so here we go!

 

I quite like Humbrol's Flat Blue enamel paint, so this is applied to the upper bulwarks, after some masking. This is thee same blue I used on Flirt. To stop this soaking in, I first painted a little polyurethane varnish in over the area first. When dry, the blue was masked off and the top bulwark areas painted in red at both bow and midships, backwards.

 

 

 

 

Before fitting the gunwales, it's easier to first soak these pearwood patterns and form them around the bow. As pear can expand quite a lot, these are left in position to dry overnight before the clamps are removed.

 

 

 

 

Each gunwale is three pieces per side. These are painted in black (I use Games Workshop Citadel Chaos Black aerosol) and then glued into place. There was virtually zero trimming needed for these. The forecastle and aft gunwales are left a little long to accommodate any hull variations.

 

 

 

 

The pear patterns are now painted acrylic black around the window areas and then they are glued into place directly underneath the overhang of the gunwale sections. This makes alignment very easy, plus there's pin holes in these which align with the outer bulwarks. It just takes a little care and a few minutes per pattern. 

 

 

 

 

The wales in this kit are supplies as pre-cut/shaped parts. These are soaked and formed around the bow before being allowed to thoroughly dry and be painted black. I fit them with CA gel and also use a 3mm spacing strip to make sure they are equidistant from each other from bow to stern.

 

 

 

 

 

My waterline is now reinstated and after masking, I use Rustoleum's White Primer to spray the hull. I did need to use a little dilute acrylic filler and rub down between coats.

 

 

 

 

Red paint is now used on the stern decor fascia and the part glued to the hull using CA gel.

 

 

 

 

 

The decor is theme removed from its casting block and soaked in hot water for 10 seconds. The slightly floppy resin is then laid over the stern so it has the correct shape. My Humbrol blue enamel is used to paint the part, followed by Vallejo's Liquid Gold, mixed with a few drops of isopropyl to allow it to flow easily.

 

 

 

 

Once the stern windows are fitted, plus their embellishment, the decorative panel can be glued in place, followed by the gold trim lines. 

 

 

 

 

At the bow, the V brackets, hawse bolster etc. are fitted in place.

 

 

 

 

I actually made this part a while ago but it now seems like it should be shown! The rudder is made from a central core, with the pear facings, exactly as per the keel.

 

 

 

 

There are quite a few sheets of PE in this kit. These are first primed and then sprayed with Rustoleum's Bright Gold aerosol. Afterwards, a couple of thin coats of acrylic varnish are applied to protect the metallic finish. These parts are then fitted to the hull. With the exception of the curved bow ornamentation which was applied with dabs of CA gel, the rest was secured by flowing a little Johnsons Klear (Future) around the edges of them. This stuff allows a lot of time to get the part positioned correctly before it starts to set. That stuff is every bit as solid as a superglue bond, with the added bonus that is you apply a little more later, or use Windex, you can remove it and reset it. Fitting the PE doesn't actually take too long and it's easier than you'd think.

 

 

 

 

 

More PE is used on the quarter gallery windows, complete with an overlay which neatens things up. Again, pins can be used to align things like gun ports etc. and you'll need to use shortened pins in the alignment holes and glue them into position. The figurehead is also painted and installed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd looked forward to making and installing the cabin bulkhead as it looks very attractive. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...and here's the work so far!

 

 

 

There will only be one more major hull update after this, and that's just before I move onto masting.

 

 

[Morgan]

This really is a superb looking model. Nice work James.

 

Gary

[ccoyle]

Looks like a home run, Chris. Or as you English might say, "That's a cracking goal!"

[chris watton]

22 minutes ago, ccoyle said:

Looks like a home run, Chris. Or as you English might say, "That's a cracking goal!"

Cheers!

 

Just completed all the laser cutting for the kits. there are no less than 19 separate laser cut sheets per kit, with half that amount being pear wood. This does mean that first and second planking starts below the main deck level, so not so much of that to do.