HMS Leopard 1790 by Bluto - FINISHED - 1:80 - 50 gun ship - PoB

[Kronprinz]

That's a good idea, the pictures of the both 50-guns Experiment and Portland may be helpfull to your project.

No I don't think it's compleetly inaccurrat - the lower gunports may be closed in a fighting situation in a not calm sea - to avoid an end like Mary Rose or Vasa...

 

Theri is always a plenty of work before us, Jim, but the goal of an fully rigged ship with striked saily placed in tree-angled nets on the top of the middle of the yards is a great goal...Here at the model of the Jean D'Arc form the Alma Class very well done.

So today my Planking historical ship models about HMS Cruiser arrived - and so I read now four books parallely - there is allways a plenty of work to be done...

 

@all - is it possibe to interrupt the Project when the hull is ready for the showcase and to readopt the project for rigging later on?

 

Yours

Christian

Edited August 27, 2013 by Kronprinz

[Mirabell61]

Jim, congrats,you have an excellant built ship there

ist a pleasure to watch her grow

 

Nils

[Bluto 1790]

Thanks Nils and Christian.

 

You're right Christian ~~~ there is always plenty of work before us! Thanks again for your photo.

When I reach the completed hull stage I may place it on a pedestal for a while . . . before I move on to the rigging.

So now you are reading 4 books! . . . you'll have to make sure you have time to get on with building your Wolf - I'll be watching your buildlog.

 

Back to Leopard.  By the time I had planked the quarterdeck I was beginning to think about that part of the build that I had been "putting on the back burner" for some time. THE STERN QUARTERS !

Oh Dear !!! ~ I felt it was time to think about how I could possibly create anything that would resemble what I had been looking at in the drawings.

. . . and here is what I saw every time I looked at the drawings :-

 

 

>>> The photo above shows the spindles/balusters that run along the stern 'balcony' and round the port and starboard galleries are hardly 1mm at their thickest point and at their thinnest part they are less than 0.5mm, and the window muntins are also less than 1mm in thickness, so I knew that there was no way that I would be able to create anything so tiny that would look like these spindles.

In my lack of knowledge I had already "created" these unconventional 'structures' at the stern as shown below :-

 

 

 

 

So ~ after lots of attempts to think of how I could transform that monstrosity into a 'look-alike' stern I decided to form each side (port & starboard) and the upper and Q'deck sterns as individual units that could be brought to the ship and glued in position. 

Here's what it looks like in the early stages -

 

Edited September 11, 2013 by Bluto 1790

[Kronprinz]

Okay Jim -

 

it's a great first start!!! You made a bridge from thr skelleton of wood to a well done first stern!

I think your feeling of imperfectism depenses on your view - on the  model. The cross in the windows are able to be better.

If the horicontal parts were more parallel they will look a lot better.

 

Lots of years I've built scratch wagon for my O16.5 freelance railway by adopting Pullmann and othe prototypes - there is the source of my idears to find in.

 

1st save wood - use cardboard:

It's cheaper, easier to cut und it doesn't hurt so much to bin a second and third trail. 

 

2nd go the easiest way:

The easiest way (i.m.h.o.) may be to cut the windows out from the extra plancopy and unsing them as a direct stencil.Perchance the used wood in windows corsses are too wide, so a smaller/thinner pice of wood might bring more satisfaction in the building becauce it is closer to the prototype.

 

3rd keep you flexibley - stay able to change your mind:

If wood doesn't work - don't try it a fourth fivth or dozendth time - change the material... take plasticcard - and paint it like wood - the hole ship will be painted... why not begin with the windows crosses?

 

4th trust your eye:

The circle of the higher balcony seems to be too plan - check it with the plans pattern.

Take both - the sideview and the sterns frontalview as you are driving backward with the car - using both wing mirrors by changing between them!

 

"It's a pure mixture of diffrend materials under the skin of colour - but nobody knows without me!"

Wolfram zu Mondfeld                      

 

                     

HTH,

Yours,

Christian

Edited August 29, 2013 by Kronprinz

[Bluto 1790]

Okay Jim -

 

it's a great first start!!! You made a bridge from thr skelleton of wood to a well done first stern!

I think your feeling of imperfectism depenses on your view - on the  model. The cross in the windows are able to be better.

If the horicontal parts were more parallel they will look a lot better.

Yes Christian ~ the horizontal muntins are very bad and totally unacceptable. They have already been removed. Right now I do not know what I will do to rectify this situation. These stern windows will have to be replaced but I am reluctant to remove the main structural part of the quarterdeck's stern as I feel it can be saved.

As for the spindles on the balcony, I know that I will not be able to make them look as they do in the drawings and I am prepared to proceed with the build leaving them as they are or with a little tweaking ~ but I may decide to scrap that balcony and start again . . . right now I don't know which way I'll go with that.

What I do know is that I will return to my previous post above to edit it and remove that awful photo of the stern as I don't want it to be part of this log.

 

Lots of years I've built scratch wagon for my O16.5 freelance railway by adopting Pullmann and othe prototypes - there is the source of my idears to find in.

 

1st save wood - use cardboard:

It's cheaper, easier to cut und it doesn't hurt so much to bin a second and third trail. 

 

2nd go the easiest way:

The easiest way (i.m.h.o.) may be to cut the windows out from the extra plancopy and unsing them as a direct stencil.Perchance the used wood in windows corsses are too wide, so a smaller/thinner pice of wood might bring more satisfaction in the building becauce it is closer to the prototype.

 

3rd keep you flexibley - stay able to change your mind:

If wood doesn't work - don't try it a fourth fivth or dozendth time - change the material... take plasticcard - and paint it like wood - the hole ship will be painted... why not begin with the windows crosses?

 

4th trust your eye:

The circle of the higher balcony seems to be too plan - check it with the plans pattern.

Take both - the sideview and the sterns frontalview as you are driving backward with the car - using both wing mirrors by changing between them!

 

"It's a pure mixture of diffrend materials under the skin of colour - but nobody knows without me!"

Wolfram zu Mondfeld                      

 

                     

HTH,

Yours,

Christian

[Kronprinz]

Dear Jim,

 

there is the possibillity to use Evergreen plastic sheetes and stripes to undo your window problems.

 

The spindles on the balcony are easy to "march in rank and file" by using a spaceholder - just simply cut a stencil from cardboard and use it between every spindel. Put a simple grasp/handle on it so you can positionate it easier and also remove it more simply.

 

The form of the spindels requested by the plans drawings can be made from toothpicks - in cheap an easy way...Oor if you want a more historical and want to work them out of a quareed timber... take the complex way from behaeded wooden matches. By rolling the rounded result along a roll up pice of sandpaper you get a curved collum -> a spindle. 

 

You can roll it by fingers or using a drillingmaschine as a lethe.

 

Jim - the most important is that you have seen that it is possible!!! ...and now you refine the work. ..

 

May be you NOW thing you'll not be able to do them as on the drawing! But you will wonder what your fingers can do!

"Every dustbin of a good modelshipbuilder is well filled with pices other would give their teeth eye for it." a worldchampionship shipmodel winner.

 

How old ar you now? Belief me you'd get mad if you would find out after so many years, that you have been a born modelshipbuilder and wasted your time with something else then winning one championship after the other... You've started an interesting project...

 

Yours Christian

[Bluto 1790]

Thanks Christian.

 

As I said in my previous post, I have removed the offending parts of these stern window frames and have made a brief start at trying to remedy the problem.

I'm attempting to attach individual horizontal muntins between the verticals and it is proving to be very tricky ~ they are only about 2mm - 2.5mm in length and less than 0.5mm thick so I don't know how successful this will be. Meanwhile, I find it is sometimes better to walk away from a difficult task and to do something else, then return at a later time.

If this doesn't prove to be reasonably satisfactory I will have to re-think another strategy. I'll be looking at some of your suggestions.

 

After I had initially attached these 'not-so-good' stern parts (several weeks ago) I set about making preparations for the poop deck >

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2013 by Bluto 1790

[Kronprinz]

Jim, you have got it!!!

...that's a very good idea to "automotivate" yourself by changing the location of your concentration!

 

Well dann the parts under your quaterdecktimbers...

 

Gratulor!

 

Christian

Edited September 2, 2013 by Kronprinz

[Bluto 1790]

Dear Jim,

 

 

The form of the spindels requested by the plans drawings can be made from toothpicks - - -

 

You can roll it by fingers or using a drillingmaschine as a lethe.

 

Jim - the most important is that you have seen that it is possible!!! ...and now you refine the work. ..

 

 

 

Yours Christian

 

I've gone back to my Nemesis!

I've still to re-work the stern window frames, but I have started to fashion some spindles rather than the square section balusters I had made previously.

 

I did not think that I could create such small spindles as shown on my drawing ~ and while I still can't create exact replicas down to that scale I hope that I can get closer than before.

I decided to have a try at Christian's suggestion and used my drill as a lathe. I used toothpicks/cocktail sticks so they were already round, but at almost 2mm they are too thick so needed to be reduced in diameter. 

I couldn't make the thinnest part of the spindles any less than about 0.75mm - 0.85mm as they just wouldn't survive at less than that.  I had a few failures even at that thickness. (or should that be 'thin-ness'?) 

 

Here's what I attempted >>> 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2013 by Bluto 1790

[Kronprinz]

Jy Hym!

 

Changing the material might be the better solution... Yes it is very brave to stay with wood - but it may be hopeless to be too fundamentalistic in the vote of the material. Untill a specific thinness is reached everything is okay - but if you undercut a specific measuring value the wood will got broken by the loading of its own wight!

 

Its a physical law.

 

WHO is to blame for your bad situation?

 

Guilty is a guy called :mellow: Isaac Newton... 

 

He brought, introduced and promoted a so called law of nature - and only because of his *heavily censored swarewords* law we are forced to crawl on all fourth under our workbench and try to find the corpulating little pice of anything we worked on for the last hours or days...

 

As Canada was whilom a part of the Commonwealth - you might put this case before the House of Lords (today there might be s.th. like a the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom.. or better ask for me also and drag the guy and our task before the Worldsecuritycouncil.

 

DOWN    WITH      GRAVITY!    

 

and everything would have been better if he lived on the Caribian Ilands (see below)...

 

Yours,

Christian

 

 

If you fall - I'll be there.

                            The floor

Edited September 4, 2013 by Kronprinz

[Bluto 1790]

Jy Hym!

 

Changing the material might be the better solution... Yes it is very brave to stay with wood - but it may be hopeless to be too fundamentalistic in the vote of the material. Untill a specific thinness is reached everything is okay - but if you undercut a specific measuring value the wood will got broken by the loading of its own wight!

 

Its a physical law.

 

Christian,

 

As I'm having a measure of success with the wood I'm pressing on with trying to make wooden spindles. When I say I'm having success I'm also having some failures, but I'm having more successful cuts than failures, so I'll keep going for now anyway.

 

However, while I grind away at the tedium of trying to sort the stern quarters I'm also diverting to other (less tedious!) parts of the build from time to time.

 

The poop deck now has its planking done.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2013 by Bluto 1790

[Kronprinz]

Christian,

 

As I'm having a measure of success with the wood I'm pressing on with trying to make wooden spindles. When I say I'm having success I'm also having some failures, but I'm having more successful cuts than failures, so I'll keep going for now anyway.

 

However, while I grind away at the tedium of trying to sort the stern quarters I'm also diverting to other (less tedious!) parts of the build from time to time.

 

The poop deck now has its planking done.

 

That sounds great, Jim!!!   

 

Go ahead, that is the right way of thinking went away from the tedious to the parts that groooooove!

If anything is going to annoy you - make it standing in the corner...

 

You have got more successfiull cuts than failers

-> so the process of learning works inside of Jim

-> called handcrafting experience grown out of empirically

-> brings progress in prowess 

-> this brings fun into the work,

-> so you like more what you do...

-> and you like to be able to do what you do...

-> so you can what you like to do..

 We call it reinforcing learning..*

 

 

(or if you don't like to mindf*ck):

  Hobby!

 

It looks fine your Quaterdeck - the rst will follow...

 

Go on - keep course and speed!

 

 

Yours,

Christian

 

 

*I do it with my food every day!

[Bluto 1790]

Most of the photos in all of my previous posts have pretty much been 'historic' ~~~meaning that they represent parts of my build that have taken place over a period all the way back to late 2010.  I've already mentioned that there were a few lengthy lay-off periods  . . .

. . . but now this log is pretty much in 'real time' and whatever is posted from now on will be of current parts of the build.

 

Right now, I'm wrestling somewhat with the stern parts and will be putting that to the side while I pay some attention to other less frustrating parts.

In the last few days I've been fiddling around with some smaller bits n' pieces. 

 

Picture stories > > >

 

These 'over-the-counter' spindles cut into large and small sections >>>

 

 

. . . the larger sections going here >>>

 

 

. . . to form this >>>

 

 

A few deck rings, a single shot garland, and the main bitts have been attempted; and while the garland and the rings are now a permanent part of the ship, the bitts and the quarterdeck rail are only dry-fitted. The rail and bitts are just too fragile and vulnerable to be fitted at this stage, and will go in "the box" with a few other delicate things already made.

 

 

 

Now, a 10 day break in France beckons in a few days time,   so there won't be much progress for a couple of weeks.

 

 

 

 

[Kronprinz]

Super! That looks very fine, Jim!

[Bluto 1790]

Holiday over ~~~ back to ship building  

 

Them pesky little fenders don't look all that much clinging there to the sides of the ship, but they sure provide some fun tweaking them to get them to match the curves of the hull !

 

 

 

Some structural work has been done in preparation for the foredeck beams and planking.

Some partitioning 'dry positioned' on upper deck >>>

 

 

 

. . . and the rough blank for the aftmost beam 'dry positioned' >>>

 

 

Now for the fun of preparing the catheads and the beakhead bulkhead

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bluto 1790]

Some stuff done up at the sharp end . . . and a couple of questions to come.

 

Catheads and roundhouses made. Finished roundhouse stands beside the blank for the other one >>>

 

 

I used a 12mm dowel for the form of the roundhouses. The dowel was sliced lengthwise to leave just over half of its diameter. At 12mm it was a little underscale for the model, so before applying the vertical planks I wrapped the half-dowel with thin card then glued the planks and the bindings on to the card.

Here's the front end with the catheads loosely placed in position, and some dowels placed in 'holes' while they pretend to be masts >>>

 

 

 

. . . and now the questions ~~~

 

The catheads -- at what point is it 'normal' to fit these? Just looking at how they stick out they seem a little vulnerable to me. However, I want to be getting the forecastle deck planked soon and the inboard parts of the catheads are virtually concealed below that deck but I don't want to be messing around trying to make a neat job of fitting the catheads through the deck planking. (As this is my first build I don't want to be fitting one part only to find that later on it hampers my attempts to fit another part or parts.)

 

. . . and a general question about the roundhouses ~~~

 

I've never been sure what their function was -- I've googled looking for an answer but only found reference to the roundhouses at the stern of the ship. In my absence of accurate knowledge of this I've imagined they may have merely been "posh toilets" for some ship's officers ??? --- but someone may know differently ???

 

 

[Beef Wellington]

Jim, fantastic build you have going on here, amazing what you've accomplished!  The round houses would have been used by the warrant officers and (possibly) other petty officers. Not sure I can answer the cathead question, but I'd probably determine how the deck fits first to confirm the cathead placement, probably a lot easier than trying to cut it out afterwards.

[garyshipwright]

Hi Jim. Your post caught my attention about your cat heads and I don't believe that they was covered by the deck planking. Am not 100 percent sure but the most forward beam of the forecastle was very wide and had a rabbet on the aft edge for the planks to land on. On top of this beam the cat heads would set. I went through the book and most of the 50 gun ships show this type of set up if they had a beakhead bulkhead.  Much like Alfred had. If you look in the 50 gun ship book by Winfield, on page 82 and 83 at the most forward end of the forecastle deck you will see this very wide beam. Also on page114 that plan gives a side view of the beam setting behind the beakhead platform. Am not quite sure why McKay shows the deck planking covering up the cat head beam which looks a little odd to me. Of course it being you ship, you can do it as you see fit sir. Here is a picture of Alfred's beakhead along with one of the cat heads waiting to be finished. You will also see the large beam with the rabbet  in the photo's. Just something to think about and might help keep you from putting them on to early. Gary

[Bluto 1790]

Thanks for your comments, Jason and Gary.

 

Gary ~ thanks for the photos you posted. As you said, John McKay shows the foredeck as being completely flush with the catheads completely "sunk" below it. I've already formed the catheads, and in the absence of any details (in the Winfield book and plans) of how they are shaped inboard, I just made them straight. I've also made inclined 'platforms' for each of them to sit on under the foredeck, so they will be well supported at least there. (These platforms will be completely concealed once the deck planking is done.)

I've already made angled cut-outs for the catheads in the top of the hull and when done it'll be a bit of a compromise as part of them will (unlike McKay's plans) still be visible above deck at the outer edge before disappearing below at the angle I've seen on other builds.

My main concern was for their safety after fitting, but I'll just have to make sure I take extra care when handling the ship. The build is now approaching the stage when there are going to be more and more vulnerable bits and pieces being fitted.

[Bluto 1790]

Foredeck beams fitted after posts for forebitts were fitted.

In the pics the catheads are still just placed roughly in position. >>>

 

 

 

Just checked my "stock" of previously cut Maple deck planks and it looks like there isn't enough to cover the foredeck, so it's back to the 10" (250mm) table saw where it's a bit tricky cutting 1.5mm strips.

 

 

 

[Bluto 1790]

Catheads now a permanent part of the ship and the foredeck planking is underway >>>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WHEEE !!!  ~  Leopard is now 'all decked out' >>>

 

 

 

The foredeck planks are still to be scraped and sanded . . . then it's onto the other million or so things that are all part of the ship . . .

 . . . . .  

 

 

 

 

[mij]

Hi Jim

 

She looks great, lovely build.

 

mij

 

current build HMS Sussex 1693

[NenadM]

Maybe you are interested to look

 

First place two days ago, Larisa Rumiantseva Ukraine with  with HMS Leopard 

 

[Bluto 1790]

Well, this feels strange --- returning to this after more than 2 years since my last posting. Soon after that post, work on the ship ground to a halt while other 'life things' started to happen. I hadn't intended that no work would be done for almost 2 years but I eventually got back to it around August this year.

Before work tailed off I had managed to get the deck planking completed, and here are a couple of pics from back then.

 

Last part of planking gets under way on fo'c'sle >

 

 

Planking now complete from stem to stern >

 

 

Then the gratings were laid in place here >

 

 

This was the last work done before Leopard collected some dust for a while . . .

 

[mtaylor]

It's good to see that you've returned, Jim.  I'm looking forward to seeing more on this project.

[Bluto 1790]

Now that the decks had all been planked some fittings got under way.

The parts of the quarterdeck rail had been tucked away in a box for a couple of years so it was time for them all to come together >

Cap rails for P & Stbd bulwarks >

'Pseudo' timberheads awaiting the cap rails >

Cap rails fitted >

6 'cappings' (not sure of the proper name) for the timberheads are required - 3 for each side at the fore end of Q/deck at the step-down to the gangboards.

Here are 3 of the 6 >

Also 2 'stand-alone' timberheads - one at each side. Here's one of them >

 . . . and here they are fitted >

 

 

 

 

[Bluto 1790]

Still a few things to be done around the quarterdeck which I'll get back to later.

In the waist of the ship there are several things that need done. Most of the shot garlands have been fitted but there are still a couple missing. Four ladders serve this area (2 to the Q/deck & 2 to the fo'c'sle) and 2 of them have been made some time ago and are waiting 'in the box'.

I don't want to fit the ladders or the skid beams (which are also already prepared and waiting . . . ) as I don't want to make the installing of the guns any more difficult than it has to be. I've already done a trial 'dry run' of trying to get a gun & carriage in position with the beams and ladders in position and I didn't like the experience. 

I know I could fit all the guns first but I'm a bit reluctant to do so as they will be something else sticking out the side of the hull that I would have to try to avoid damaging.

I have fitted the guard wires/ropes around the 2 companionways on that deck. When doing so I found that 2 of the skid beam supporting columns would have been very close to being in the same position as 2 of the guard rail stanchions --- so, I employed these 2 columns in the dual role of stanchion and column >

 

. . . and seein' as these 2 columns were sticking up looking very vulnerable, I decided to fit their skid beam hoping to stabilise the columns and make them less likely to be damaged. That single skid beam won't hamper any later efforts to fit the guns. >

 

While I think about the order in which I will finish the 'works' in the waist, I moved forward and began doing some 'stuff' up on the forecastle. I made a start on the fo'c'sle rail which still waits to be 'topped' off and the basic structure of the belfry awaits its canopy and bell. >

 

[*Hans*]

As said in Piet's topic - marvelous work you have done here!

[Bluto 1790]

Thanks for your comment, Hans, and to the others for the 'likes'.

 

The belfry now has its bell and it looks like cooking facilities have been installed as there is now a chimney sticking up through the deck of the forecastle. (but there isn't really any stove down below. )

 

 

The fo'c'sle rail still awaits the cappings to finish it off, but they're real tiny parts to make and very fiddly to fit so they'll be coming along at a later date. (I hope?!)

A start has been made along the starboard side to prepare for the side rail but the port side rail, the fiferail and this starboard rail effectively form a continuous rail so I'll have to spend some time fitting the 'timberheads' for these as well.

[Bluto 1790]

Staying on the foredeck, the timberhead 'bases' for the rails have been fitted along with the 2 gun 'ports' for the bow chasers. >

 

 . . . then the rails were added >

 

The forward corners where the fife rail meets the side rails are presently just 'hanging ' there without support. The plan is for support to come along in the form of the head timbers which are an "in the very near future" project ~ as soon as I can figure out how to make these fancy, curly things, and fit them!

 

Some of you may have noticed from a couple of the pics above that the head platforms are already fitted to the ship. (Yeah, go back and have another look!)

These were fitted prior to the foredeck rails making an appearance >

 

 

These were fairly straightforward, if fiddly and time consuming, to make, but I'm not sure the head timbers will be straightforward.

(At least the sailors now have toilets to go to!)