F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

[Egilman]

And another short update...

 

The wing roots..

 

The left wing root is the one that will have it's leading point cut off for the open Ammo Bay door, so the adjustment will be on right wing root...

 

Creating the dihedral closed the gap about half way, leaving a little more than a paper thickness gap... A piece of .015 should easily fill that gap...

Testing the idea..

Nice.... And it feels solid... The big question? what does it do for the left side....

 

The tiny gap is gone.... Excellent! now to glue it in and shave it to profile....

 

I love it when a plan comes together... {chuckle}

 

And I hope I ain't boring you guys as I'm pretty sure all of you have done exactly this process before... So I'm posting it for those modelers that don't know how to do this, explaining it to someone works, pics work better...

 

Thanks Brothers for being patient and following along....

 

EG

[Old Collingwood]

Thats an excellent  fix to that gap   - great idea with the strip.

 

The airshow  I have attended  a few times   RIAT  at RAF Fairford  over here in the UK (not gone to this years one)   has a F-86/CL-13   flying  - this one  - 

 

Pic of the internet.

 

OC.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Old Collingwood

[Egilman]

3 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

F-86/CL-13   flying  - this one  - 

Nice shot brother... she is pretty... All of the Sabre's were a beautifully designed aircraft.... That one has been europeanized and has the Martin Baker ejection seat... (that is why the canopy is sitting flat when opened rather than it's pronounced forward slant...

 

Thanks brother...

[Canute]

Evergreen Styrene is your friend here, my brother. Well done in fitting that.

 

The RL news ain't great, but your attitude will go a longs ways in beating that diagnosis. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers, too.  Nihil Illigitimus Carborundum - Don't let the bas...rds grind you down.

[Egilman]

16 hours ago, Canute said:

Evergreen Styrene is your friend here, my brother. Well done in fitting that.

 

The RL news ain't great, but your attitude will go a longs ways in beating that diagnosis. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers, too.  Nihil Illigitimus Carborundum - Don't let the bas...rds grind you down.

Thank you Ken... I do have a bit of a supply of that material layin about here, might as well put it to use {chuckle}

 

And thank you brother I can use all the good word with the big guy I can get...

 

nil desperandum my friend, nil desperandum

[Egilman]

Ok my friends, Moment of decision time...

 

Flaps up or down? They need to be glued now before I do the final filling and sanding if positioned up....

 

98% of the field photos I have show them up, they are only down when landing, taking off or under maintenance... all other times they are up...

 

The reason is they were electro mechanical in actuation, they had a two position switch in the cockpit, up or down... The pilots manual says once on the ground you reset the switch to neutral, (up) Even the maintenance manual say the same unless your repairing them... I've read some stories where occasionally the pilot would forget this and leave them down and would usually get commented by the crew chief about it...

 

But it does look attractive with them down, that's the draw... I guess I'm answering my own question aren't I? {chuckle}

 

Here is where she is at material fills sanded down....

It's time to make the decision...

 

What do you all think?

[mtaylor]

Do them down if you want with the explanation that it's either in maintenance or on the "hot pad".  You do seem to looking for a reason to have them down.  LOL.

[Javlin]

21 hours ago, Egilman said:

Once they were all glued and dry I test fitted the wing to make sure the joint is filled and tight...

That's how I made the repair to the tailplanes on the 51 easy peasy

[Egilman]

2 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Do them down if you want with the explanation that it's either in maintenance or on the "hot pad".  You do seem to looking for a reason to have them down.  LOL.

{chuckle} I'm just second guessing myself brother... Up is they way they should be... Just kidding myself thinking it should be otherwise... Probably the drugs I'm taking for pain... (yech)

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, Javlin said:

That's how I made the repair to the tailplanes on the 51 easy peasy

Yep, it's old school I know but also the easiest, fastest way to do it...

 

Thanks brother...

[lmagna]

9 hours ago, Egilman said:

Probably the drugs I'm taking for pain... (yech)

Hope they are working better than the ones I am taking!😝😵

 

Get yourself, (Or with your talents) print yourself a pilot and place the plane at the beginning of the runway running the engine up before takeoff. Ask Ken for certain but I am fairly certain the flaps would be down at 20 degrees at least at that point.

Edited July 18, 2022 by lmagna

[Egilman]

Oh brother are they working... loopy as heck right now... {chuckle} Thanks... No need to stretch to specific moment in time....

 

I've glued them in the up position, the way they should be in real life...  (it's the way I usually build representing real life... I couldn't do it any other way and be me in all honesty) So she is ready for gap filling and finishing... But beforethat, I'm going to do the RnB on the extra 200 gal. drop tanks they so graciously provided... (not used on the aircraft I'm depicting) Now Paul Cordryette explained that you can change the appearance by using different base paints, super shiny finish you use gloss black, dull you use flat black, you can also vary the hue of the finish by using different colors... So, one will be blue based and and one will be black based, lets see how much difference there is in the final finish before I apply it to the entire aircraft...

Edited July 18, 2022 by Egilman

[Canute]

EG, I hope the drugs don't alter your color visualization. NMF finishes are very cool, but hard to achieve the subtle variations of shades. Fingers crossed for a great outcome.

 

Lou, as far as drooping flaps or setups, it varies by jet. Hard wing F-4s (no slats) were flaps 30 for T/O, 60 for landing. Slat birds only had 30 degree flaps. EG would need to consult the Dash one for the F-86. 

 

Couple of things usually missed by model companies is the auxiliary air doors and speed brakes on F-4s. They droop on the ground if no hydraulic pressure in the system. Once the engines start, the speed brakes slam shut (3000 psi system). Maintainers avoid them, but it's easy to do so, since the jet sat fairly low to the ground. The aux air doors stayed open until takeoff. I think they were wired thru the landing gear handle circuits.

[lmagna]

7 hours ago, Canute said:

Hard wing F-4s (no slats) were flaps 30 for T/O, 60 for landing. Slat birds only had 30 degree flaps

That is  why I said you should be consulted. In our case all we really needed to be certain of was that the fire was lit, RPM was up, and that our wings were already flying before trying to take off ourselves.

 

It would seem that you may want to start with gloss black toward the nose and fade to blue after the wings somewhere.

Edited July 18, 2022 by lmagna

[Canute]

We were 2 turning and burning, the wing tips were down and the canopies were down and latched. Once that was done, push 'em up, select Afterburners and roll on down the runway. Simple, huh?

[lmagna]

Did you bother to release the brakes?

 

I have stood by the side of a runway about mid point, (About where the rear wheels just start leaving the runway and the nose is up and the flames are bouncing off the runway) and I never got the feeling that it was all that simple. Did seem like you guys were always in a hurry though. We had to wait until the air settled down a little before we could FLOP FLOP across the runway and climb out at our comparatively leisurely rate. Always felt like we were sneaking out after your big show of noise and flame! 

Edited July 19, 2022 by lmagna

[Egilman]

14 hours ago, Canute said:

EG, I hope the drugs don't alter your color visualization. NMF finishes are very cool, but hard to achieve the subtle variations of shades. Fingers crossed for a great outcome.

 

Lou, as far as drooping flaps or setups, it varies by jet. Hard wing F-4s (no slats) were flaps 30 for T/O, 60 for landing. Slat birds only had 30 degree flaps. EG would need to consult the Dash one for the F-86. 

 

Couple of things usually missed by model companies is the auxiliary air doors and speed brakes on F-4s. They droop on the ground if no hydraulic pressure in the system. Once the engines start, the speed brakes slam shut (3000 psi system). Maintainers avoid them, but it's easy to do so, since the jet sat fairly low to the ground. The aux air doors stayed open until takeoff. I think they were wired thru the landing gear handle circuits.

Thanks Ken, These aren't those kind of drugs my friend, simple pain relivers...

 

I have TO 1F-86F-1 & 2 as my data manuals I also have the illustrated parts breakdown for the aircraft... TO 1 is the flight manual and TO 2 is the maintenance manual... Maximum mechanical swing for the flaps is 50 degrees, maximum operational swing is 45 degrees... They were either open or closed, there was no middle setting for the flaps... And being electro-mechanically servo operated, there was no low pressure sag either... The flight manual says that as soon as they were on the ground and below 80kts they were to set the flaps to lock, (full retraction) when taking off, once past 140kts again set to lock... They were only used to supply low speed lift, at speeds higher than 140 kts they destroyed the handling characteristics of the airplane...

 

Now the gear doors and speed brakes were hydraulically and pneumatically operated respectively, without the engine turning, they were always hanging open... Normally closed....

 

6 hours ago, lmagna said:

That is  why I said you should be consulted. In our case all we really needed to be certain of was that the fire was lit, RPM was up, and that our wings were already flying before trying to take off ourselves.

 

It would seem that you may want to start with gloss black toward the nose and fade to blue after the wings somewhere.

Agreed Lou, except I have the straight skinny right out of the book for this one... No doubt about it, Brother Ken is the man in the know on this stuff...

 

As far as fading the paint from black to blue I don't have those abilities quite yet and haven't struck on a good way of doing that... so one will be gloss black and the other gloss blue angels blue.... What little I've done with RnB says that is the way to go... Still in the beginnings of learning to work with it here....

 

Sprayed them about an hour ago, (spent most of the day dealing with Dr's) As soon as they are dry will be metalizing them in silver and we will see if there is any real difference... The P-51 I did was in flat grey primer when I did her....

[Egilman]

2 hours ago, lmagna said:

Did you bother to release the brakes?

With two J-79's and afterburners? who needed wheels? {chuckle}

[Egilman]

Update, just a simple test, Blue or Black?

 

Bright flash...

No flash...

For the life of me I can't tell a difference.... Not even a slight one...

[Canute]

In full AB, we could blow both tires holding the brakes too long. We could roll the wheels off the rims. The brakes got a tap if we weren't pointed straight down the runway. We steer with our feet, as do most fixed wing aircraft.

 

I assumed you'd figure it out, Luigi, since we were on the runway and cleared for takeoff. It should be obvious to the most casual observer, no? We just looked like we were in a hurry , cause we could. 😉😁

[mtaylor]

Like Lou... fires lit, rpm's up, and big egg beater overhead was spinning.  As for Ken's being in a hurry because they could... I believe it..  A kick in the seat and some G's from acceleration. It would get the blood flowing and a mental "woopiee" much like drag racers get when they launch.

[Canute]

My very first launch was like that. Got pressed into the parachute container and felt like I'd never get my hand up to the throttle for the radio mic switch. It was a real boot in the butt. I miss it.

[lmagna]

6 hours ago, Canute said:

It was a real boot in the butt. I miss it.

I suspect that may be a bit of an undestatment.

 

I still miss doing a leasurly100kts almost close enough to the trees to grab leaves. And that was 40 years ago! I don't think that is even lift off speed for an F-4.

 

Other than one being somewhat out of focus on my computer the two finishes look pretty much the same to me. Possibly if you place them both vertically in the picture so that they have the same focal length at some point the compairson would be easier or more reliable.

Edited July 20, 2022 by lmagna

[Egilman]

2 hours ago, lmagna said:

Other than one being somewhat out of focus on my computer the two finishes look pretty much the same to me. Possibly if you place them both vertically in the picture so that they have the same focal length at some point the compairson would be easier or more reliable.

Yeah, that upper one is a bit out of focus, but it doesn't matter, like you say there really isn't any difference between the blue and black... So I'm going with the black, it is what most use for shiny silver and it looks just a bit deeper...

 

Right now I'm finishing up the fuselage for painting... base sanding is done, (at least as much as I'm going to do) and masking off the canopy....

The Eduard Masks can be interesting at times but they are much easier than any other method I've used... Once masked they get tacked to the fuselage for the painting and silvering... Easier to do it all at once....

 

I wish I could have experienced all that action that you guys lived... I'll bet there is nothing else like it...

[Canute]

It'll make you a believer.

[Egilman]

5 hours ago, Canute said:

It'll make you a believer.

I'm sure of that....

[Egilman]

Ready for paint....

As close as I can make her...

 

Onwards...

[mtaylor]

9 hours ago, Egilman said:

I wish I could have experienced all that action that you guys lived... I'll bet there is nothing else like it...

 

Somedays it was great..,,, peaceful, relaxed and zipping along watching the scenery.  Other days, not so much.  Eitheir way was an adrenaline rush... both the good way and the "bad" way.

[CDW]

That baby looks ready! She's gonna be a beauty in silver.

[lmagna]

13 hours ago, Egilman said:

 

I wish I could have experienced all that action that you guys lived... I'll bet there is nothing else like it...

You hear about the good and even fun times but like Mark says not all of them were so good and fun on the day they happened. Some of them became better later and some will never make that grade. Nothing will ever change the impact of hauling a guy you saw in the chow line that morning or last night and know that you will be hosing his blood out of the cabin as soon as you get time. Sorry for the gloom, but that is the stuff that is better left to read about somewhere than to wish you had experienced personally. Enough said, OUT.

 

Now, answer me if you can, and I suspect you can. What are the lines at the rear of the canopy? They look like range markings of some sort. (Or vertical defroster ribbons like on the back window of my car😁)