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Alfa Romeo Spider Touring Gran Sport by CDW - Pocher - 1:8 Scale


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28 minutes ago, Javlin said:

I'll tag along Craig. I do not usually follow auto stuff seeing I have been in that industry way to long hence the reason I like to do wood work and furniture.:imNotWorthy:

Thanks Kevin. You'll be in for a long ride following this one. It's a LOT of work getting these kits to fit together and look presentable. I've seen some amazing builds of these things but man, it's going to take some dedication to getter done. I'll definitely be working other things in between sub-assemblies.

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Finishing supplies and clamps are your friends on this build, eh? Well, it wouldn't be fun without some challenges. :rolleyes:

Ken

Started: MS Bounty Longboat,

On Hold:  Heinkel USS Choctaw paper

Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1

Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section

 

Member Nautical Research Guild

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1 minute ago, Canute said:

Finishing supplies and clamps are your friends on this build, eh? Well, it wouldn't be fun without some challenges. :rolleyes:

The model is designed to fit together with machine screws but lots of massaging is required to make that happen. I can see why some of it goes together with screws as it's necessary to fit, adjust, refit, then rinse and repeat. 

Some of the engine internal working features seem unnecessary as once it's all completed, they will never be seen. From everything I've read, getting all the chassis parts, drivetrain and body panels to fit will be a real challenge. 

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The supercharger screws to the side of the engine block and hooks up with the intake. When you dry fit the head to the engine block, you find that the head does not seat properly to the block and needs to slide forward about 2 or 3mm. In order to do this, the holes where the screws go through the engine block to attach the supercharger must be elongated to allow the blower assembly to slide forward those few MM to allow the head to fit the block. 

IMG_5579.jpeg

IMG_5578.jpeg

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Nice job Craig.  Do you think you need to use all the screws in the kit?  Can't some pieces be glued together?  I have a few Pocher kits in the stash and heard about the fit problems, especially with the screws, but had always wondered whether you can bypass screws with glue.

Mike

 

Current Wooden builds:  Amati/Victory Pegasus  MS Charles W. Morgan  Euromodel La Renommèe  

 

Plastic builds:    Hs129B-2 1/48  SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48  Five Star Yaeyama 1/700  Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama  Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700  Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32   IJN Notoro 1/700  Akitsu Maru 1/700

 

Completed builds :  Caldercraft Brig Badger   Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle  Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700   Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350

F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72  Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48  Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48  Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48  Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72

Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya  Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16

 

Terminated build:  HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn)  

 

On the shelf:  Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits

 

Future potential scratch builds:  HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)

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1 hour ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Nice job Craig.  Do you think you need to use all the screws in the kit?  Can't some pieces be glued together?  I have a few Pocher kits in the stash and heard about the fit problems, especially with the screws, but had always wondered whether you can bypass screws with glue.

That's a good question but I really don't know for sure at this point. From what I've read, it's not unusual to have to go back, disassemble, refit, and reassemble various sub-assemblies as you're moving forward with construction of one of these. I've read this is particularly true of the chassis and body panel assemblies. Every single screw location needs to be drilled out, then threaded before assembly. It seems to me some glue is going to be essential and maybe lots of it could be glued together and use no screws but certainly not all of it.

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This sounds like a very challenging build Craig. I had read a little about the Pocher kits and thought "machine screw assembly - what could possibly go wrong" . 

I'm sure you will pull off a magnificent result but it's going to cost quite a lot of 2023D quota of patience

Alan

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/26/2023 at 11:36 AM, king derelict said:

This sounds like a very challenging build Craig. I had read a little about the Pocher kits and thought "machine screw assembly - what could possibly go wrong" . 

I'm sure you will pull off a magnificent result but it's going to cost quite a lot of 2023D quota of patience

Alan

Thanks Alan

 

On 7/25/2023 at 8:07 PM, Landlubber Mike said:

Nice job Craig.  Do you think you need to use all the screws in the kit?  Can't some pieces be glued together?  I have a few Pocher kits in the stash and heard about the fit problems, especially with the screws, but had always wondered whether you can bypass screws with glue.

to get the engine block firmly seated on the divide along the center of it, glue is going to be required. Same for the cylinder head, front crank/engine block housing, as well as the oil pan. Not sure why I should add the internal parts except that the crankshaft needs to be there. The rods, pistons, and cylinder sleeves will never be seen once the engine is complete and mounted on the chassis.

I am still waiting on the parts I ordered from ModelMotorcars. Hope this isn’t the normal waiting period from them.

IMG_5597.jpeg

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Hmm....  you could do what some did back in the day and leave the bonnet (hood) open with the head removed and all the parts in the block.  I never did on of those but the ones I saw looked great.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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11 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Hmm....  you could do what some did back in the day and leave the bonnet (hood) open with the head removed and all the parts in the block.  I never did on of those but the ones I saw looked great.

Hmmm...There you go. That's a thought worth considering. I've got a feeling the internals would need a whole lotta love to pull that off. This is a reasonable facsimile as it is, but lacking in many details that would need to be made from scratch. 

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9 hours ago, CDW said:

That's a thought worth considering.

Personally, if I was building this, I would give consideration to putting the engine on a stand by itself.... In it's day, it was considered a piece of engineering art, all by itself...

 

Originally developed for Formula Racing in '31 the engine made the Grand Touring Spider one of the most desirable cars to own...

 

The Alfa Romeo 8C engine.... (some pics) 

Alfa-Romeo-8C-Engine-1-740x494.jpg.4dcb6b231cb71d54cf5969de1f23bbaa.jpgAlfa-Romeo-8C-Engine-2-740x494.jpg.f62296d1e2bbcf60a111375807889632.jpgAlfa-Romeo-8C-Engine-3-740x494.jpg.8e619b424886686e339145d229e94a3a.jpgAlfa-Romeo-8C-Engine-4-740x494.png.5c12342fe37b970c62815dcbef123fc2.pngAlfa-Romeo-8C-Engine-5-740x494.png.239afc0c011a6d4bcd8c142d4d45c391.pngAlfa-Romeo-8C-Engine-6-740x494.jpg.af278a001ef41bc69de0d58dc546469e.jpgAlfa-Romeo-8C-Engine-7-740x494.jpg.0c2995af2721d326bc4c3d9ebb62349e.jpgAlfa-Romeo-8C-Engine-8-740x494.jpg.0d01050d3c2f0e8d185d7cc66892e9bd.jpgAlfa-Romeo-8C-Engine-1600x1171.thumb.png.1461a7f8a761246b47d399f55b4b1ea9.png

Besides, you leave the head off it would be technically inaccurate as it was a unified casting head/block as most racing roadster engines of the period were... You will lose that beautiful supercharger and intake manifold as well... 

 

Pretty isn't it...

Edited by Egilman

Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale

Completed: M8A1 HST  1930 Packard Boattail Speedster  M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer  F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C

Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433  F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale

Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"

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My feeling is that these moving pistons and crankshaft are more for the pleasure of the builder than anything else. It is a little wink to the mechanically inclined and is a legacy of most Protar kits which had some kind of moving parts. Protar in the good old days, produced a Moto Guzzi  V7 (1/6 scale) that had all kinds of working features, including the engine, gearbox and transmission as well as some electrical features.

 

Yves

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4 minutes ago, Egilman said:

Alfa-Romeo-8C-Engine-1600x1171.thumb.png.1461a7f8a761246b47d399f55b4b1ea9.png

Besides, you leave the head off you lose that beautiful supercharger and intake manifold as well...

Pretty isn't it...

That is gorgeous. Incredible of realism..... I would think that the wooden box underneath would be sagging more under the load....

 

Yves

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57 minutes ago, yvesvidal said:

That is gorgeous. Incredible of realism..... I would think that the wooden box underneath would be sagging more under the load....

Yves, That is actually a real engine in the photos sitting on a drop leaf table.... (in an auction house display) One good strong man could carry it as it was an alloy competition engine and very very light... Two men could easily handle it without breaking a sweat...

Edited by Egilman

Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale

Completed: M8A1 HST  1930 Packard Boattail Speedster  M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer  F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C

Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433  F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale

Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"

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Just a note, the engine in the pics is a '32 2.3L that was factory installed in an 8C Monza, chassis number 2111037, vintage 1932... It was acquired by and part of the Peter Giddings collection in 2011... Removed when the car was restored by Auto Restorations, it is said to have been rebuilt with a new crankshaft at that time and retained by Giddings as a spare... It sold at Sotheby's Monterey auction in 2021 for $90K...

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mo21/monterey/lots/n0006-alfa-romeo-8c-engine/1118281#

 

Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale

Completed: M8A1 HST  1930 Packard Boattail Speedster  M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer  F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C

Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433  F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale

Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"

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1 hour ago, Egilman said:

Yves, That is actually a real engine in the photos sitting on a drop leaf table.... (in an auction house display) One good strong man could carry it as it was an alloy competition engine and very very light... Two men could easily handle it without breaking a sweat...

No wonder, I was fooled and tricked. 

 

Yves

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12 hours ago, yvesvidal said:

No wonder, I was fooled and tricked. 

 

Yves

I think we all were.   I know I was.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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3 hours ago, mtaylor said:

I think we all were.   I know I was.

Same  here.

 

OC.

Current builds  


28mm  Battle of Waterloo   attack on La Haye Saint   Diorama.

1/700  HMS Hood   Flyhawk   with  PE, Resin  and Wood Decking.

 

 

 

Completed works.

 

Dragon 1/700 HMS Edinburgh type 42 batch 3 Destroyer plastic.

HMS Warspite Academy 1/350 plastic kit and wem parts.

HMS Trafalgar Airfix 1/350 submarine  plastic.

Black Pearl  1/72  Revell   with  pirate crew.

Revell  1/48  Mosquito  B IV

Eduard  1/48  Spitfire IX

ICM    1/48   Seafire Mk.III   Special Conversion

1/48  Kinetic  Sea Harrier  FRS1

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Same here😏

Ras

 

Current builds:

Stern Paddle Wheeler ZULU-1916-1/48 scale

Previous builds:

Freccia Celeste-1927 350cc racing motorcycle-1:9 scale-Protar kit

Boeing B17F- 1/72 scale- Hasegawa kit

HMS Mimi-scale 1/24-Fast Motor Launch                               

Amapá 1907-1/64 scale-Brazilian Customs Cruiser

Scottish Motor Fifie. 1/32 scale. Amati kit

Patricia. Steam powered R/C launch. 1/12 scale. Krick Kit

African Queen. Steam powered  R/C launch. 1/24 scale. Billings ki

Emma C. Berry. Sailing fishing smack. 1/32 scale. Model Shipways kit.

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On 8/8/2023 at 2:42 AM, yvesvidal said:

No wonder, I was fooled and tricked. 

 

Yves

 

18 hours ago, mtaylor said:

I think we all were.   I know I was.

 

15 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

Same  here.

 

OC.

 

1 hour ago, Ras Ambrioso said:

Same here😏

Well it sure wasn't intentional.... I'm sorry...

Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale

Completed: M8A1 HST  1930 Packard Boattail Speedster  M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer  F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C

Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433  F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale

Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"

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6 hours ago, Egilman said:

Well it sure wasn't intentional.... I'm sorry...

No worries.  EG.  Nothing like a good surprise eye-opener to cause a jaw to drop.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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