Greg Davis Posted March 26 Author Share #121 Posted March 26 I've just added the fuel tank and fuel line to the engine. Getting the tank in place was harder than expected. At first I attached the mounts to the plane and then attempted to add the tank - this was a fail. I took the mounts off, wrapped the tank and mounts with the brass straps and then put the whole structure in place - this eventually worked out for me. The fuel line was then added to finish this portion of the build. I think it would have been just as easy (and more realistic) to have formed the tank supports from wire and/or had them supplied as castings. I've also added the radiators, the propeller, and the upper wing middle rib. I believe that all that is left now is the landing gear - the wheels, the tail skid, and the wing skids. Rik Thistle, Egilman, Old Collingwood and 7 others 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Ramey Posted March 26 Share #122 Posted March 26 I've also had a fail at the fuel tank installation, so much that in repeated attempts I've broken the mounts a couple of times such that after repeated repairs they are to weak to support the tank. Just finished making replacement parts so I'll try your method of installation which makes more sense. Agree with your assessment of the mounts material; the thin plywood seems a poor choice. I'll miss your reports as you finish your model as you have saved me some pitfalls I might have fallen into. Got a display location yet? I've got to relocate my build to my kitchen table when I get to the wing installation as my workbench is too small and more suited to peanut and walnut scale aircraft. Canute, Egilman, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Davis Posted March 27 Author Share #123 Posted March 27 9 hours ago, George Ramey said: I've also had a fail at the fuel tank installation, so much that in repeated attempts I've broken the mounts a couple of times such that after repeated repairs they are to weak to support the tank. Just finished making replacement parts so I'll try your method of installation which makes more sense. Agree with your assessment of the mounts material; the thin plywood seems a poor choice. I'll miss your reports as you finish your model as you have saved me some pitfalls I might have fallen into. Got a display location yet? I've got to relocate my build to my kitchen table when I get to the wing installation as my workbench is too small and more suited to peanut and walnut scale aircraft. George - While plywood doesn't have as much grain problems as if they made them from basswood, they are still more fragile than I like. If the mounts break again, consider remaking them from some styrene. One of the problems I faced installing the mounts at first was that I failed to angle them in enough. But after playing with the brass straps, I think that getting the straps on first is the way to go. Did you notice that the kit supplied mounts have notches for the brass straps - but they seem to have been made on the top of the mounts instead of the bottom (where I think they should have been)? I've got the display down to two possible locations in my workroom - either on the wall behind my computer desk or hanging in one of the corners of the room. My wife says there is a corner of the family room that it could go in if I want! As soon as the wings were attached, the model got BIG. I am also having some issues with the final assembly because of that. If I happen to get done before you, feel free to continue to post questions. I'll be checking periodically. Otherwise, you can just message me via MSW. Greg Canute, mtaylor, Old Collingwood and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Davis Posted March 27 Author Share #124 Posted March 27 Today's main task was getting the tail support in place. I got the bamboo supports glued and tied in place. Took a little thinking on how I might clamp the lower ends together in preparation for the skid. Finally placed a washer over the two pieces to hold them in place. They were spot glued with CA. After it was dry, I cut a half round into the joint for the skid to sit in. The kit supplies brass wire for the skid. I think the brass wire is not stiff enough to hold the plane up nicely over time. So I have substituted piano wire for the piece. It is spot glued as of this picture. Next it will be wrapped, along with the lower portion of the bamboo, with thread. Once that is done, A small amount of rigging will be added to support the entire assembly. Egilman, Old Collingwood, Jack12477 and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Davis Posted March 28 Author Share #125 Posted March 28 The model is now completed! Overhead view: Three-quarter view: Another shot of the engine / cockpit region: I want to thank everyone that has been following the progress on this model for all of your support. All the best, Greg Old Collingwood, Rik Thistle, yvesvidal and 17 others 13 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Collingwood Posted March 28 Share #126 Posted March 28 Lovely work - a really nice looking replica. OC. Jack12477, Egilman, Greg Davis and 2 others 4 1 Quote Current builds 28mm Battle of Waterloo attack on La Haye Saint Diorama. 1/700 HMS Hood Flyhawk with PE, Resin and Wood Decking. Completed works. Dragon 1/700 HMS Edinburgh type 42 batch 3 Destroyer plastic. HMS Warspite Academy 1/350 plastic kit and wem parts. HMS Trafalgar Airfix 1/350 submarine plastic. Black Pearl 1/72 Revell with pirate crew. Revell 1/48 Mosquito B IV Eduard 1/48 Spitfire IX ICM 1/48 Seafire Mk.III Special Conversion 1/48 Kinetic Sea Harrier FRS1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king derelict Posted March 28 Share #127 Posted March 28 A masterful build. That is such a beautiful delicate model. It crosses the line into art. I think I would end up with a bundle of broken wood and string. Absolutely excellent Alan Jack12477, Greg Davis, Egilman and 4 others 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted March 29 Share #128 Posted March 29 (edited) Nice work. I am glad that I found this log as I am waiting for my own 14 bis . This build log will be a great help. Ron Gove (aka Papa) Edited March 31 by Papa Canute, mtaylor, Egilman and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Davis Posted March 29 Author Share #129 Posted March 29 2 hours ago, Papa said: Nice work. I am glad that I found this log as I am waiting for my own 14 bits. This build log will be a great help. Ron Gove (aka Papa) Ron - Thanks, and I hope you consider creating a build log as well. Greg mtaylor, Jack12477, Egilman and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egilman Posted March 29 Share #130 Posted March 29 Beautiful job on the original configuration of the 14-Bis... So many kits of this built, but no real research into what it actually was when first built... This has it all.... VERY NICE!!!!! Jack12477, Canute and Old Collingwood 3 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Davis Posted March 30 Author Share #131 Posted March 30 On 3/29/2024 at 3:11 PM, Egilman said: Beautiful job on the original configuration of the 14-Bis... So many kits of this built, but no real research into what it actually was when first built... This has it all.... VERY NICE!!!!! Thank you very much for the compliments and all the posts that you made thru the building, they really helped me think about how the project would unfold. For a machine with such a short 'life', it sure had quite a few configurations. I think that what came out of the build was the middle of the variants - the shortened propeller mount, but not the ailerons. It's certainly not a perfect piece of work and I hope others will see my modeling shortcomings and perhaps get closer to the 'perfect' miniature. Actually, it might make a really good scratch build project, short of the engine most of the build could be accomplished without a great deal of trouble just having the plans. On the other hand, I saw Model Expo selling the model for $99 recently which is not bad for anyone to give it a try! king derelict, Canute, Old Collingwood and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Davis Posted March 31 Author Share #132 Posted March 31 One last picture - I've hung the Santos-Dumont 14Bis in the corner of my office / workroom. As it attempts to fly out the corner of the room, the model should be safe here and easy to view. king derelict, Paul Le Wol, MAGIC's Craig and 14 others 11 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandpaPhil Posted April 4 Share #133 Posted April 4 Very nicely done! Egilman, king derelict, Canute and 4 others 6 1 Quote Building: 1:64 HMS Revenge (Victory Models plans) 1:64 Cat Esther (17th Century Dutch Merchant Ships) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted April 4 Share #134 Posted April 4 An interesting but odd looking bird and very well done. Old Collingwood, Egilman, Jack12477 and 2 others 4 1 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wawona59 Posted May 7 Share #135 Posted May 7 Beautiful work Greg. I have this kit as a "someday" project. Your build log was very well done and extremely helpful. I'll have to check my kit for missing parts and request them now before I start building it. This looks like a more challenging kit than I imagined. Hopefully ME has been able to resolve this supplier issue. One nit-picky question; did you intend to hang your 14-bis flying into the corner of your office? Perhaps to show off the engine and prop? As I recall the 14-bis was a pusher configuration with the wings in the back. It looks like a more conventional aircraft the way you hung it though. Regardless, you've made I beautiful model and I'm impressed with your craftsmanship and representation of the bamboo. Egilman, Old Collingwood, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote Wawona 59 John Next Project: Gifts for friends: 18th Century Pinnace, Kayak 17, Kayak 21 Indefinite Hold for the future: 1/96 Flying Fish, Model Shipways Wish list for "Seattle Connection" builds: 1/96 Lumber Schooner Wawona, 1/32 Hydroplane Slo-Mo-Shun IV, 1/96 Arthur Foss tug, 1/64 Duwamish cedar dugout canoe, 1/96 Downeaster "St. Paul" Selected Previous Completed Builds: Revell - 1/96 Thermopylae; Revell - 1/96 Cutty Sark, Revell - 1/96 Constitution, Aurora - Whaling Bark Wanderer, Model Shipways - 1/96 Phantom, AL - 1805 Pilot Boat Swift, Midwest - Chesapeake Bay Flattie, Monitor and Merrimac, Model Trailways - Doctor's Buggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Davis Posted May 7 Author Share #136 Posted May 7 2 hours ago, Wawona59 said: Beautiful work Greg. I have this kit as a "someday" project. Your build log was very well done and extremely helpful. I'll have to check my kit for missing parts and request them now before I start building it. This looks like a more challenging kit than I imagined. Hopefully ME has been able to resolve this supplier issue. One nit-picky question; did you intend to hang your 14-bis flying into the corner of your office? Perhaps to show off the engine and prop? As I recall the 14-bis was a pusher configuration with the wings in the back. It looks like a more conventional aircraft the way you hung it though. Regardless, you've made I beautiful model and I'm impressed with your craftsmanship and representation of the bamboo. Thanks for checking this out and I hope you have a good result with your 14bis! I did intentionally fly it into the corner. Because of its triangular shape it 'fits' better this way. Everyone that sees it then gets 'educated' about what is front and what is back on this bird. Egilman, Wawona59, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDW Posted May 7 Share #137 Posted May 7 I love your model, very unique and eye-catching. Can you even imagine taking flight in something as flimsy as this? I can't. Those pioneers of flight were daredevils, to say the least. Old Collingwood, Canute, mtaylor and 2 others 4 1 Quote Completed Projects: USS Fletcher 1:144 Scharnhorst 1:350 USS Independence LCS-2 1:350 1:32 J7W1 Shinden Interceptor/Fighter Fairey Swordfish Mk. II 1:48 Harbor Tug Box Scale Albatros D.V 1:32 Ala-Kart 1:25 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder 1:24 S-100 Schnellboot 1:72 Mercury Capsule and Atlas Booster BR-52 Steam Locomotive 1:35 Triumph 3 HW Motorcycle 1:9 Scale F-16XL-2 Experimental Fighter Bomber 1:48 Rafale 1:48 F-15E Strike Eagle 1:48 Petlyakov PE-2 Soviet Dive Bomber 1:48 TBM3 Avenger 1:32 1931 Cadillac 1:25 Scammell Pioneer SV2S Heavy Breakdown Tractor 1:35 M-50 Israeli Sherman 1:35 Military Wrecker 1:32 Delahaye 135 1:24 Toyota Sard Supra GT 1:24 Enzo Ferrari 1:24 1970 Baldwin Motion Camaro 1:25 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 Stock Car 1:25 American LaFrance Eagle Fire Pumper 1:25 1940 Ford Standard Coupe 1:25 VolksWagen Dragster/Dune Buggy/Street Rod 1:25 Kawasaki Ninja H2 Carbon 1:12 Porsche GT-1 Evo 1:24 Scharnhorst 1940 1:700 IJN Akitsushima Seaplane Tender 1:700 HMS Hood 1941 1:700 Prinz Eugen 1942 1:700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateWilly Posted May 17 Share #138 Posted May 17 I just ordered my kit from Model Shipways, and they reference this build log, which I came and looked at very briefly. I will go over the entire build log over the next several days. I can't wait for my kit to arrive! Several years ago on PBS, there was a special on this aircraft on the site, and a group of Brazilians researched the aircraft, built a replica and actually flew it. It was as hard to fly as everyone on here surmises. After his death, Santos-Dumont's heart was removed from his body, placed in a glass decanter, and is on display in a Brazilian museum. I hope to visit there and go see it someday. About 10 years ago, I flew into Dayton, Oh, to examine a flight control problem on a Learjet 35, where they were having problems getting the aileron rigging adjusted. I got that sorted out, and then went to the Wright Brothers bicycle shop and the area surrounding it, which is now a Historic District. They have very little there because the Wright Home and most of their estate went to Henry Ford in Greenfield Village. But they DID have some of the Wright Brothers personal tools in a display cabinet. The ranger who showed me the tools, when she found out I was an airplane mechanic, asked if I would like to actually TOUCH them, and I told her "ABSOLUTELY!!" and she opened the case for me, and allowed me to closely examine the tools, actually handling them and examining them very closely. I was absolutely ecstatic, and thanked her profusely! That was a real event in my life, I can tell you! Actually handling the tools the Wright Brothers used, and their mechanic Charles Taylor, also, was an incredible treat! The few remaining houses in that district were obviously very upper-class, with a lot of detail work, and were very large. The Wrights lived and worked in a very prosperous area of Dayton, I can tell you. I visited several other buildings in the area, which were related to Wright history, but most were occupied by other businesses, some were vacant. But it was still great just to see them. Many of the streets in the area just have 1-2 houses on a street that are original, and there are a lot of vacant lots where other houses stood in the time of the Wrights. That was a wonderful afternoon that I will never forget! (There are lots for sale in that area, but the house you build must fit the architectural style of the area (1890's Victorian) in order to be approved for construction. Anyway, the whole point of this post was to mention the Brazilian effort to build and fly one of these for real, and if it has been mentioned in this forum topic previously, I will soon find out about it, and am sorry for a duplicate post mentioning it. But if it has not, the PBS show was VERY interesting and would be worth hunting down for anyone who has a kit on order and is planning on building it. Canute, king derelict, Egilman and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted May 17 Share #139 Posted May 17 If you ever get back to Dayton, PirateWhilly, visit Carillon Park and also the Air Force Museum. Both have dispalys if the Wright aircraft and tools. I used to live there about 30 years ago or so and they were great back then and quick Google says they're even better today. Greg Davis, king derelict, Canute and 3 others 6 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlubber Mike Posted June 6 Share #140 Posted June 6 Fantastic job! Really well done. Seems very fragile, so hanging from the ceiling is a good idea. Canute, mtaylor, Jack12477 and 3 others 5 1 Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted July 14 Share #141 Posted July 14 I am currently attempting to build the "14Bis". This is not an easy kit. I have had to re glue the wing frames multiple times. Butt joints do not hold up well. Right now I have the 3 right wing frames in the assembly jig with the longitudinal pieces glued. I don't have the patience to simulate the bamboo,so I am considering covering the frame with tissue or some appropriate covering when it is completed, like the classic stick and tissue models I built as a child. Has any builder done this? Should I do it? Recommended material? Ron Gove, AKA Papa Canute, Jack12477, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Davis Posted July 15 Author Share #142 Posted July 15 Ron - I agree that the butt joints are difficult, especially because you are working with dowels. I had run a round file on the end of the dowels as they met up in the joint to provide better contact between the pieces. I also 'reinforced' the joints with an additional fillet of superglue. Even with that, they remain delicate. I think a really nice model could be had with the surfaced covered. At first I thought that silkspan may be a good covering; however, I then started to wonder if that may be to heavy for the wing structures and if a tissue covering would be a better choice. Either way, I hope that construction starts become more pleasant and that you post some pictures - especially if you give it a covering! Greg Papa, Jack12477, Old Collingwood and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted July 29 Share #143 Posted July 29 (edited) I have a question about the wings. All the illustrations seem to show that the higher part of the wind is forward and the lower part aft. However, the jig for the right (starboard) wing would require this right wing to be on the left (port) side of the aircraft to maintain this relationship and vice versa. i am guessing that the directions were from the perspective of looking to the front of the aircraft. My “right” is the aircraft’s left. Edited July 29 by Papa Canute, mtaylor and Old Collingwood 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Davis Posted July 30 Author Share #144 Posted July 30 12 hours ago, Papa said: I have a question about the wings. All the illustrations seem to show that the higher part of the wind is forward and the lower part aft. However, the jig for the right (starboard) wing would require this right wing to be on the left (port) side of the aircraft to maintain this relationship and vice versa. i am guessing that the directions were from the perspective of looking to the front of the aircraft. My “right” is the aircraft’s left. Yes the higher side is to the front. I remember having some confusion with the wing jig labeling and finally decided that they had been labeled for someone looking from front to rear of plane; i.e., not from the pilots perspective. It probably would have been as good, or better, if the jigs hadn't been labeled and the instructions said make a pair! mtaylor, Egilman, Jack12477 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted July 30 Share #145 Posted July 30 I find the instructions very confusing in places. mtaylor, Old Collingwood, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Davis Posted July 30 Author Share #146 Posted July 30 1 hour ago, Papa said: I find the instructions very confusing in places. They are very confusing, many typos and material out of order. I have a multitude of notes all over my booklet! As I got closer to the end of the build, I also saw that the main drawing / plan had some serious limitations. I feel that the model / instructions should have been beta-tested by an out-of-company builder and the instructional material revised before it was released to the public. Some of the problems may arise because the instruction booklet has been translated from Portuguese to English with limited editing. Papa, Egilman, Old Collingwood and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted July 31 Share #147 Posted July 31 (edited) On 7/15/2024 at 5:00 PM, Greg Davis said: post some pictures - especially if you give it a covering! Here is a test covering of one of the ailerons. The tissue is MT. FUJI Japanese Tissue, linen color from EasyFly models Edited July 31 by Papa Greg Davis, Old Collingwood, Canute and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted September 22 Share #148 Posted September 22 On 2/1/2024 at 10:47 AM, George Ramey said: build 6 identical wing panels" to mean 6 each side since the plans showed a showed a left and right wing template I made the same mistake and made 12 panels. I was able to undo the surplus panels and use some of the pieces of the 1.5 mm bamboo but still ran short. I ask ME for a replacement and they sent more 2.5 mm! I was able to reduce the diameter by about 0.5 mm with a draw plate to use where the smaller dowels were specified. The difference is not really noticeable. I really question the rationale for using “the same materials as the original “. The bamboo is very difficult to work with and I have had to re-glue joints innumerable times. Butt joints with round material is just plain dumb. Also, as in a previous post, the wing panels did not fit into the jig very well. The jig width and panel width are essentially the same. The instructions are also quite poor. The method for building the nacelle does not account for the fact that the front and back different widths. I had to assemble and take apart and reassemble about 3 times to get things correct. I could go on and on. A very stressful build all in all. Old Collingwood, mtaylor, Jack12477 and 3 others 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted September 24 Share #149 Posted September 24 On 7/31/2024 at 4:28 PM, Papa said: Here is a test covering of one of the ailerons. The tissue is MT. FUJI Japanese Tissue, linen color from EasyFly models I have covered the fuselage and canard. I also started on the wings. Greg Davis, yvesvidal, Old Collingwood and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted October 2 Share #150 Posted October 2 Working on the engine. I question whether the real 14 Bis could have supported the Antoinette engine with the flimsy bracket arrangement modeled in the kit. Mine couldn’t support the model engine for sure. I had to glue the kit engine to the firewall and put in the brackets after the glue had dried. Also, using the plan’s placement for engine mounts I found that the drive shaft would not line up with the propeller. It took a lot of fiddling to get everything lined up and I think the engine is still a tad crooked. Landlubber Mike, Canute, Old Collingwood and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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