HMS Surprise 1796 (prototype) by James H - Vanguard Models - 1:64

[Mike_H]

Looks absolutely stunning, and as you say, exceptionally sleek.  I wanted this for my birthday in May this year - but next year will be just fine.  I've alerted the Admiralty!

[James H]

For the last day or two, I've been concentrating on some of the smaller stuff, as I usually do at this stage in a VM build. I like to get some stuff out of the way early, such as guns, grates, etc. This update will look at the main guns and the stern chasers. The main guns are constructed like Indy, meaning the barrels aren't actually fitted until the model is almost complete. This means the capsquares in the carriage sides, are open at the front, allowing the builder to slip the barrel through the port and glue the part in place. The stern chasers are more traditional. Here, the barrels are fitted through whole capsquares during assembly. 

 

Fourteen on the main guns come complete with name decals. When the cart is painted, some gloss varnish is applied and when set, the decals are added to the carts before being sealed and matt varnish applied. Here you can see the names.

 

PE is used for eyelets and the small stop bar which sits between the sides. The latter is painted ochre to match the cart.

 

Wheels are now added....remember, large ones at the front, so as to deal with deck camber.

 

 

 

The barrels are NOT glued at this stage. The carts will plug into slots in the deck, and the barrels will be one of the very last things you fit as you build Surprise.

 

Chasers: Almost identical in formula to the main guns, except the barrel is fitted as you close the carriage sides.

 

I'm currently working on carronades. I might be able to update today, but maybe not. I have a visitor later who operates the Modelkits Stuff YouTube channel, and he's coming for a preview of the work and sheets of parts etc. 

 

[hollowneck]

Jim,

Nice post on the gun assembly details.

I'm curious about the yellow color you've chosen for the carriages. How do we know that they were painted this color for the Surprise? 

[chris watton]

13 minutes ago, hollowneck said:

Jim,

Nice post on the gun assembly details.

I'm curious about the yellow color you've chosen for the carriages. How do we know that they were painted this color for the Surprise? 

There is quite a lot of Information out there that suggests ochre for inner bulwarks and carriages for the early 1800's. My main source for this particular kit is the book The Frigate Surprise, by Brian Lavery and Geoff Hunt. Victory inner bulwarks and carriages are also yellow ochre, and she is depicted as per the exact same time frame as Surprise.

 

But, as always, the colour scheme is never gospel, no one will insist the modeller uses the colours we suggest  you can paint them red, yellow, even green or pink if you wish!

 

Conversely, how do we know definitely they were painted red, or at all?

 

ETA - The reason I did the carriage names in both white and black is to give the modeller the choice of how they wish to paint them, red for the white decals, lighter colours like ochre use the black.
 

Edited yesterday at 05:43 PM by chris watton

[AJohnson]

There are also very good articles on the topic in the Mariners Mirror. I forget the sources, but Red Ochre was removed from the approved Admiralty list of paint pigments in 1807. 
So for the “real” Surprise red would be fine if you chose to model that. But for the “fictional” Surprise many of the stories are based around historical event in the 1808 - 1817 time frame. So like Chris I will be following the Lavery/Hunt book as my reference.  Will be nice to see something different to red ochre! 😁

[chris watton]

22 minutes ago, AJohnson said:

There are also very good articles on the topic in the Mariners Mirror. I forget the sources, but Red Ochre was removed from the approved Admiralty list of paint pigments in 1807. 
So for the “real” Surprise red would be fine if you chose to model that. But for the “fictional” Surprise many of the stories are based around historical event in the 1808 - 1817 time frame. So like Chris I will be following the Lavery/Hunt book as my reference.  Will be nice to see something different to red ochre! 😁

My usual rule of thumb is this – Any warship pre 1800, I will always insist of red inner bulwarks and carriages unless I have strong evidence to the contrary. After this date, I feel I can be a little ‘looser’ with the options, using off-white, ochre or green, depending on date and type of vessel. As you mention, Surprise is being depicted (for the prototype at least) to those later dates, so colour scheme is a little more flexible.

 

But again, it will always be up to the modeller what they want to do – they are furnished with options.

 

Oh, meant to ask - what colours were the cutters, was it a red one and green one, or red and blue, I cannot remember!
 

[hollowneck]

1 hour ago, chris watton said:

ETA - The reason I did the carriage names in both white and black is to give the modeller the choice of how they wish to paint them, red for the white decals, lighter colours like ochre use the black.

Thanks for the clarification, Chris. A nice touch to furnish both black and white decals for the carriages.

[Jase]

I guess most people will want to build the Hollywood ship which definetly does not have red gun carriages.  They do look great built up with the coats of arms and the names.  Some people may want to do the stern chasers in Bronze as per the books and film too.  I think every build of this will end up being different, I for one look forward to what people do with this kit.

Edited 12 hours ago by Jase

[knightyo]

1 hour ago, Jase said:

 I think every build of this will end up being different, I for one look forward to what people do with this kit.

The variations of this build are really going to be fun to see.  I'm hopeful that at least one builder will also add a sloth.

 

Alan

[Kusawa2000]

8 hours ago, chris watton said:

My usual rule of thumb is this – Any warship pre 1800, I will always insist of red inner bulwarks and carriages unless I have strong evidence to the contrary. After this date, I feel I can be a little ‘looser’ with the options, using off-white, ochre or green, depending on date and type of vessel. As you mention, Surprise is being depicted (for the prototype at least) to those later dates, so colour scheme is a little more flexible.

 

But again, it will always be up to the modeller what they want to do – they are furnished with options.

 

Oh, meant to ask - what colours were the cutters, was it a red one and green one, or red and blue, I cannot remember!
 

Chris: Not to say this is gospel, the maritime museum in San Diego has a ochre colour for there guns below deck on the HMS Surprise moored at the museum. For what its worth!

Edited 16 hours ago by Kusawa2000

[chris watton]

I had the Spit Fire pic as one of my references! I did originally have the text exactly like in the picture, but was told to change the font as the printing they use would not be able to print something so thin onto the decal sheet. Originally, every name had a slightly different look and line thickness, to simulate the styles written by different hands - but in the end had to change them. Took an age, too. 

[ccoyle]

3 hours ago, chris watton said:

I did originally have the text exactly like in the picture, but was told to change the font as the printing they use would not be able to print something so thin onto the decal sheet.

 

Interesting. That's the first thing I noticed when looking at James' photos. I do think the look could be improved if your printer could use a serif font -- the sans serif font looks far too modern. Italics would probably also help improve the look, since the writing on the real carriages leans a bit. Example below:

 

SPIT FIRE

vs.

SPIT FIRE

[druxey]

I'm sure that the enterprising model-maker can add the names by hand. It would certainly look more authentic!

 

Unlike the photos (post #70), ship-based trucks would not have had iron tyres/tires! Only land-based guns were so shod. Metal would have quickly wrecked the decks.

[Thukydides]

Those are some super cool options. I appreciate @chris wattonhow you are giving modelers flexibility. She is going to be quite the model.

 

Just to add an interesting anecdote on gun carriage colours. I have even found some evidence which suggest that the one ship (mid 1770s) may have had guns in both colours. Those on the forecastle were painted red, but those on the main gun deck painted yellow. So I suspect there was a fair bit of variation.

[LoydB]

1 hour ago, ccoyle said:

 

Interesting. That's the first thing I noticed when looking at James' photos. I do think the look could be improved if your printer could use a serif font -- the sans serif font looks far too modern. Italics would probably also help improve the look, since the writing on the real carriages leans a bit. Example below:

 

SPIT FIRE

vs.

SPIT FIRE

 

The first sans serif font appeared in 1816. So yeah, serifs would be much more likely IMO.

 

[ajromano]

Unbelievable kit……

 

What is one more…………..??

[knightyo]

5 hours ago, ccoyle said:

 

Interesting. That's the first thing I noticed when looking at James' photos. I do think the look could be improved if your printer could use a serif font -- the sans serif font looks far too modern. Italics would probably also help improve the look, since the writing on the real carriages leans a bit. Example below:

 

SPIT FIRE

vs.

SPIT FIRE

Actually, maybe thin, laser-cut plastic templates that a modeler could use to "sponge" paint through onto the carriages.  That might yield the most realistic look of all.

 

Edit: I think there needs to be a North American distribution center for these kits.  I'm assuming that if I purchase this kit, I might as well book a flight to the U.K. to pick it up in person as that would probably be cheaper than the shipping cost to the states. Maybe I'll schedule a vacation for the wife and I to visit the U.K. "just a sec honey, I need to go pick something up real quick". 

Edited 2 hours ago by knightyo

[James H]

The decal sheets are printed by Eduard and Chris has already taken delivery of 500. 

 

If you want to use something different, maybe look at Letraset or something, or have custom decals made.

[chris watton]

18 minutes ago, knightyo said:

Actually, maybe thin, laser-cut plastic templates that a modeler could use to "sponge" paint through onto the carriages.  That might yield the most realistic look of all.

 

Edit: I think there needs to be a North American distribution center for these kits.  I'm assuming that if I purchase this kit, I might as well book a flight to the U.K. to pick it up in person as that would probably be cheaper than the shipping cost to the states. Maybe I'll schedule a vacation for the wife and I to visit the U.K. "just a sec honey, I need to go pick something up real quick". 

You do realise the pictures taken were with a macro lens, and these names are just a few mm long?

 

We do have a US distributor, AgesofSail.