Beavers Prize 1777 by Mike Y - 1:48 - POF - Hahn style

[Landlocked123]

Mike,

 

The more I look at what you've accomplished the more impressed I am. I love the look of the build, the color of the wood, and especially your craftsmanship. The fact that you do this in the corner of your living room is astounding. Equally astounding is the complete disaster area I call my work shop in my basement. I generally don't let folks down there because, like the Bermuda Triangle, they'll never find their way out.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Landlocked123

[cog]

John,

 

I thought it was a mouth full of horse manure ...

[Mike Y]

The comments made me blush 

But it is really because of MSW - there are so many great build logs to learn on, especially the ones where people share the process, show how a certain part is done, different tricks and jigs, etc. That is one of the most fascinating parts of this hobby for me. Some people can do magic with just a few tools, sharp blade and a chisel. And steady hand and an eagle eye.

But some come up with a clever jig that does not require a sharp eye or hand skill, but will produce a stable and good result. This is engineering at its best. Such build logs and Remco's motto are an information treasure!

That is why I am always pedantically documenting the build process. It might be very trivial and boring for some readers, but could be interesting for others. 

Edited October 1, 2016 by Mike Y

[Mike Y]

Worked on stemson and sternson today. Hahn plans omit both, so it is another thing that is up to the builder. TFFM depicts stemson in a quite detailed way, and I found sternson in Ed Tosti's Naiad build log:

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/232-hms-naiad-by-edt-160-frigate-38-1797/?view=findpost&p=11542

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/232-hms-naiad-by-edt-160-frigate-38-1797/?view=findpost&p=5659

Nobody knows if Oliver Cromwell had a sternson, but decided to make it anyway to cover mistakes done in the center of transom wings.

 

First attempt was an epic failure. Tip: do not put small pieces into the thickness planer - they might rotate and be chewed by the planer blades. Ouch!

 

Practiced with small chisels (will need the chiseling skill for deck framing anyway):

 

 

Result:

 

Now applying tung oil. Masking is not very effective with oil, since it sips through the wood grain, but better than nothing.

Where possible, was using a window cleaning cloth to apply the oil:

 

Otherwise, small brush is also fine (need to wipe with a cloth later):

 

The oil is surprisingly forgiving to different application methods.

Freshly oiled pieces:

 

The last part is a cleanup and recycling of the scrap pieces - my daughter helps with that. She has a good enough imagination to build stuff out of scrap and then play with it

 

For example, this was her salvaging the frame blank cutoff pile a year ago. She says it is a city skyline with a giant cristmas tree on the main square:

Edited October 2, 2016 by Mike Y

[cog]

A budding artist!.

 

Nice work on the stem- and sternsons. I wouldn't dare using oil the way you did with the masking that is

[Mike Y]

Carl, I fully agree that it is better to oil after the installation, but these pieces are going into the very confined places, reaching them after the installation would be very hard.

Oil sips a bit, roughly 1mm from each side. Scraping and filing easily removes unnecesary oil from the surfaces that would be glued, if the oil was not applied directly to that surface, otherwise it can sip to deep, escpecially cross grain.

[druxey]

Still, that's tricky, oiling parts as you go. Congratulations for interesting your daughter in playing with wood already!

[Mike Y]

Druxey, I am kind of worried about oling the deck framing (beams, karlings, knees, etc). Once assembled, it would be hard to properly oil all corners and impossible to reach the underside of the deck. But if I oil before assembly, before cutting the mortises - then oil will penetrate some parts completely (since they are quite thin), making the glue bond too weak.

 

So far the plan is to oil the underside only, then glue everything in place, and then oil the sides with brush and top side with a coth.

Unfortunately all build log skip the finish application part, so no experience to refer to

Would really appreciate some advice!

[druxey]

I wish I could advise you, but I use either only sanding sealer or no finish at all on parts that aren't stained or painted. Another MSW member may give you a better answer.

[giampieroricci]

What a wonderful work I was losing!!!  

Fantastic!!

[Mike Y]

A bit of offtopic, but not big enough to create a separate thread for it.

Friends from St.Petersburg sent these photos. A new playground in a bit of a hipster spot located next to the Naval Museum.

This area is an old navy storage facilities built 300 years ago, they were surrounded by channels to be accessible from boats. 

Semi-abandoned for years, with a lot of city myths surrounding the place. 

 

 

Today a part of it is given to hipsters, and the place is filled with people again.

One of the things built recently is a playground that consists of a pretty nice replica of a period ship! The thing is big, and kids can go inside and play. Fascinating! 

Of course, the framing is a bit simplified, but it is still impressive:

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by Mike Y

[Mike Y]

Started a work on counter timbers and transom, Hahn jig allows to build it pretty early, since all counter timbers would be glued to the jig and there is a little chance of damaging them.

Oliver Cromwell has a pretty weird counter timbers / windows framing. 

On most of the other models I saw, counter timbers follow the lines of the hull and transom wings.

For example, here is a Remco's Kingfisher (http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/18-hms-kingfisher-by-remco-1770-english-14-gun-sloop-pof-148):

 

In my case, however, both NMM drawing and Hahn's interpretation of it show that windows (and, hence, counter timbers) are basically square and vertical, and do not follow the hull shape:

 

 

I already made transom wings following the dotted line on these drawings, which follows the shape of the hull. Now I have only one realistic option - make counter timbers evenly spaced and end up with framing similar to the other models of this period (like Swan class). And windows will not be as square as they are on Hahn's model. So be it. Or I am missing something obvious in this problem? Would apperciate a second look, I might be misinterpreting all that drawings?

 

In a meanwhile, made some assisting construction to help with alignment of the counter timbers. True redneck engineering! But better than nothing:

 

 

And made the counter timbers themselves. Left group is a second-tier, where I made few mistakes (joints with gaps, etc). It will go to the planked side of the model where all these mistakes would be covered.

The right group are a prime timbers that would go to the exposed side of the hull. So good to have a side where all mistakes would be hidden!

 

[Captain Poison]

Great work Mike! I am following the construction and it is excellent..

[druxey]

The Beaver's Prize draught is contemporary and, one presumes, 'taken off' accurately for the Admiralty. Therefore rectangular (or almost rectangular) lights were representative of her as captured. Note that the timberheads above are angled inward. Therefore the counter timbers were angled at the level of the deck above the lights. For a model, these might be easier added as separate items later on. Remember that Hahn did stylize his models, this being one example.

[Mike Y]

Got it. Druxey, thanks for the comment!

[ggrieco]

Looking good! Can't wait to see the transom come together!

[Mike40]

Your model is really fantastic and inspiring Mike. The wood is beautiful too. Wonderful idea with the framed full sized ship. Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

Nice to see you working with hand tools  and making a good job of it too. It is a much more enjoyable way to work and except for production runs it saves a lot of time as well since you don't have set up machines and do trial runs, etc.

 

I have a nice drum sander which is great for larger runs, but I also have a sanding board for individual parts that is much used. I can also smooth and fine tune the thickness of pieces with it. When doing edges where a 90 deg. angle is essential I run the workpiece against a wooden block placed on the sanding board to keep the workpiece at the correct angle.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Mike40

[Mike Y]

Thanks Glenn, Cap'n Poison and Mike!

 

Worked on those pesky counter timbers and helm port. 

Lots of meaurements, doubts and re-measurments involved!

 

Step 1: carefullty mark counter timbers location. I should admit that my transom is not very symmetrical - few mm here and there. Nothing really big, and one should have a really sharp eye to see it in person, but the ruler does  not lie Will measure better next time!

 

So a lot of time was spent trying to find a right balance to ensure symmetry in the scope of a single side. Asymmetric planking (one side planked, one side exposed) will help as well. Cardboard templates ftw!

 

Careful viewer will note a mistake #1 here - helm port is for the rudder, not for the sternpost. Luckily I spotted it next morning.

Lesson learned - do not do marking and measuring of such difficult areas at night, being tired. It is a recipe for disaster.

 

Helm port piece was cut on a bandsaw and the weirdly angled hole was first cut in the mill, and then fine shaped with files:

 

Then the whole assembly glued together:

 

Mistake #2 - the assembly is too weak, there is only one thin "bridge" keeping two sides together. Combine it with the grain following the stress line, plus counter timbers providing leverage - expected result - it snapped into two parts right in the middle. Ouch!

Glued them back together, and it not very visible. It snapped before final sanding, so it was possible to use lots of glue and sand away any traces of it from the surface. Hope it will not become apparent after applying the finish.

Assembly ready for installation:

 

Mistake #3 - I have not pre-cut notches in the wing transom, doing it in place. Hull sides make it impossible to properly use chisel, the angle is too square.

So used a tiny one plus knife:

 

 

End result is so-so, I am not happy with the fit, there are small gaps in the glue joints, but I did not to spend few weeks doing that part again... It would not be too visible below quarterdeck. I hope! At least the counter timbers ended up square and in line with already installed timbers. Phew!

 

 

 

Obligatory "light and shade" shot:

Edited October 25, 2016 by Mike Y

[mtaylor]

Impressive work, Mike.  Looking from here, if you hadn't said anything, we would know it broke.  

[albert]

Bravo Mike beautiful work.

[Mike40]

Seeing the current state of your build it is obvious that your striving for perfection is really paying off Mike. Using templates is a great idea too. I will try to remember that when I begin constructing the transom on my own model.

[Mike Y]

Progress is very slow, spent just an hour in the workshop

Installed remaining counter timbers. Transom is quite skewed, so impossible to achieve a proper symmetry - but I hope I will hide most of it when planking one side of it. The goal is to align windows on planked side with the counter timbers on the unplanked one.

 

 

Now fairing the timbers, the outermost counter timbers had a wrong angle.

File is good enough for it:

 

Btw, found a very nice scalper saw blades in the local hobby shop, was positively surprised! They could be found by "model craft saw set" query, and exist in two types. 

[albert]

Bravo Mike, very nice work.

[druxey]

Time taken on this part of the model is time well spent, Mike. The more symmetrical you can make it, the better.

 

Interesting saw blades. I wonder who is the manufacturer/distributor?

[Mike Y]

Druxey, thanks!

Interesting saw blades. I wonder who is the manufacturer/distributor?

It is sold under a brand of a swedish company Model Craft AB. Unclear what is the original manufacturer... 

I quickly googled that you can find that in US, for example, here:

http://www.modelcrafttoolsusa.com/saws-sawblades/862-replacement-saws-for-pkn0008-k.html

http://www.modelcrafttoolsusa.com/saws-sawblades/864-replacement-saws-for-pkn0009-k.html

Edited November 11, 2016 by Mike Y

[cog]

Mike,

 

Tried to find something closer which I could read - my Swedish is real bad, if non-existing (if tld = 'se': '@#$%^&*{]*&^%^&' ) - but unfortunately they don't have an English site in Europe.

[Mike Y]

Carl, you can try googling "model craft saw set", plenty of shops in Europe that have it. Even amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Modelcraft-1-Piece-Precision-Saw-Set/dp/B001JJXE9A/ref=pd_bxgy_201_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0MN1DH0GSEF1Q8CSJK38

They are compatible with stabdard scalpel handle.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Is looking really great, Mike

[Mike Y]

Experimenting with different ways to make a smooth arc-shaped curves, like for deck beams. Right now I need it for the transom, but the methods are the same, and should be used later for beams.

Luckily I have a "template" of a proper curve - laser cut beams from the timbering set.

Clamped that template to the mill, shaped the outside curve on a disk sander, and the inside curve - by slowly feeding the wood against the mill cut. Shallow passes..

 

 

It sort of works, but the main problem is making sure the wood is sliding along the template without twisting. Right now I do it with the fingers, one finger to the left of the cutter, one to the right of the cutter. Does not work very good - the chance of mistake or a wrong move is quite high, and the risk of injury is high.

I got some nicks and dents:

 

Nicks could be removed by sanding later on, but that kills the idea of precision milling. So I need some sort of tension that will allow to slide the wood against the template. 

Or maybe I just use the wrong approach. Will try a method described in TFFM (also on a mill, but the template shape is different). Would appreciate some advices!

[mtaylor]

Mike,

 

Have a look a this which I used for sanding the beams... Seemed to work pretty well.  the center piece keeps the wood in place yet the beams can move as they need.