Beavers Prize 1777 by Mike Y - 1:48 - POF - Hahn style

[Thistle17]

Making tools and jigs especially ones that live on past the immediate job rival the model work at times. What a nice tool you have come up with!

Joe

[Mike Y]

Thanks everybody, it's so nice to be back  

 

GuntherMT, the motor is geared down significantly, so it's pretty slow, but provides enough torque for the purpose (tiny holes that are not very deep).

So you only need a moderate pressure. Though it's not fast, each hole takes around 5 seconds. Dremel would do that in a second, but the cost of mistake is higher.

I chose a weak motor simply for the size, anything more powerful is also bigger. And the design goal was to have a tiny little thing.

Unfortunately collet is as long as the motor itself, but I do not have good enough tools and skills to machine my own collet on this scale...

 

Foot switch would be nice, but I did not have one, and making it would be a bit more complicated. Can be retrofitted pretty easily if needed.

I usually do not have space for both hands when working on a model, at least not for internal planking.

 

The power supply is a simple "adjustable power adapter" from any electrical / hobby shop, with a range from 3 to 12v. I run this motor on 5-7.5v usually, but trying to be careful and take breaks. I am worried about frying this little motor, wooden drill body would not dissipate the heat, and I would not feel the motor getting hot. Machining it from brass and attaching with some thermal paste would probably be smarter, but it's another can of worms (surrounding a bare motor with conductive material is probably not great).

 

 

[mtaylor]

It's great to see you back, Mike.  I love that mini-drill.  My only question is how hot does it get inside the wood housing? I hate to hear that the motor got too hot and burned up.

[AON]

I wonder if a dremel with a 3 foot flexible cable and a 90° drill attachments would be a good alternative.

 

FYI: My first flex cable burnt through the casing as I didn't know it needed to be taken apart and coated with grease occasionally.

The next one has lasted me 20 years.

[Mike Y]

Mark, I am also worried about overheating, the problem is you can't know how hot it is inside. If the outside gets hot too - then it's probably already too late  So I'll just make sure to take tea breaks, no drilling marathons.

 

Alan, I did not know you can attach 90deg attachment to a flexible shaft, interesting idea! But then control is still an issue, when your fingers are 90deg to a hole. 

 

 

[RichardG]

21 minutes ago, Mike Y said:

Mark, I am also worried about overheating, the problem is you can't know how hot it is inside. If the outside gets hot too - then it's probably already too late  So I'll just make sure to take tea breaks, no drilling marathons.

 

Maybe you could insert one or more metal pins into the wood that would touch the motor and transmit the heat to the outside. When they get hot, you know it's time to take a break. Copper rod could be quite decorative.

[AON]

You, like others I follow, are well ahead of me (which is a good thing for me!).  I was in the shop drilling holes with the dremel and flex-shaft when I took a break and read the update on your build from my phone.  The dremel was dangling there in front of me.  I did a quick search and some came up (but read on).

 

If you can use your homemade mini drill in the space, holding it in your hand (fingers?) I imagined a dremel attachment might not be much more difficult.

 

When I went upstairs later I did a better search on my computer and I am not certain they make one for the flex-shaft or for number size drills.  They seem to only connect directly to the Dremel unit.  I've contacted Dremel to ask.  I have an ancient model that doesn't come up on their drop down menus for filling in their forms.  Mine has replaceable brushes that I could not find on the website. YIKES.  (I should have asked about that also).

[Mike Y]

Richard, interesting idea for the next generation of the tool! I'm pretty sure this one would break before I finish the model

 

Had a few late-night drilling sessions in .45mm size (#77, third smallest hole in Byrnes drawplate). This corresponds to 7/8in in real life.

 

First problem: tiny drill bit is too tiny for any collet. I tried wrapping it with masking tape, aluminium foil, etc - all was fruitless, it was spinning once bit bites into the wood.

I turned the internet upside down trying to find a proper chuck/collet or a set of bits with larger shank. That was fruitless, but I found a great advice on MSW from Von Stetina in 2013: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/4348-micro-drill-holders/?tab=comments#comment-125198

 

 

You basically wrap a wire around a bit, which provides enough grip. In my case just a wire was not enough, but if you add soft solder on top - then it works like a charm! Looks like a horrible feat of redneck engineering, but it works  Due to a low rpm of my drill a minor wobble induced by this abomination is not an issue at all.

 

 

So after all a set of tiny holes was drilled.

 

I tested it with both bamboo and boxwood treenails. It is much easier to draw bamboo (I managed to do it all the way to second hole in the drawplate without breaking), with boxwood it becomes even more delicate. 

Results were quite different when oil is applied, bamboo has some dark blotchy spots, while boxwood is evenly colored.

Here bamboo is on the left side, boxwood is on the right. Top plank is pear, boxwood is in the bottom.

 

Will probably go with a compromise - using bamboo treenails for internal planking and boxwood ones for external planking and deck planking.

If somebody asks - will blame the crew for the poor maintenance of their living quarters 😜

 

 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Hi Mike

 

Prooxon has 3 jaw chuck  which close to 0. Sometimes you will need to turn an adaptor, or use a die to rethread.

[Mike Y]

Thanks Gaetan, nice to know!

 

Sometimes I wonder how everybody else drills the treenail holes inside the hull? Most of the build logs omit that process, just showing a thousand neatly aligned holes  I can't believe that it's all drilled by hand with a pin vice, especially since it is too long to reach some areas on the extremums of the hull. 

[mtaylor]

3 hours ago, Mike Y said:

Mark, I am also worried about overheating, the problem is you can't know how hot it is inside. If the outside gets hot too - then it's probably already too late  So I'll just make sure to take tea breaks, no drilling marathons.

 

Alan, I did not know you can attach 90deg attachment to a flexible shaft, interesting idea! But then control is still an issue, when your fingers are 90deg to a hole. 

 

 

 

You might give some consideration to drilling some air holes in the wood.  I have dremel like tools and there are chucks that go down to almost nothing for a hole size.   Mine are old so I have no idea if they're still available.

 

Inside the hull is tough and the smaller the model, the harder it is to sand.  I don't know of a perfect solution to that.  

[BANYAN]

Mike when I experienced this issue I also tried a self-made drill very similar in concept to what you have made (based on a Russian modeller's ideas [posted in MSW generation 1])

 

I also experienced the slippage on the bit, and also found I did not have the level of control I desired.  Based on the advice offered by Paul Budzic (Rotary Hand Tools for Scale Modeling - YouTube), I looked around for an affordable dental handpiece (micromotor).

 

I found a very affordable one on eBay that had all the features I needed including variable speed, high top speed, low speed with sufficient torque, a  foot or front panel  controller, and most importantly it was light and easy to manoeuvre/handle the hand-piece even inside the hull (1:64).  The machine came with a straight and contra angle end-piece and accepts the standard 2.3xx mm shaft dental drills, burs, cut-off disc etc.  These are easily purchased through eBay but for better quality a chat with your preferred Jeweller's Supplier will give you an idea of what you can get.  I have a full range of micro-drill bits ranging from 0.3 through 2.0 mm (anything larger I use my Dremel with standard small drill bits), some excellent carbon-fibre cut off discs and burrs etc.  Some of these can be expensive but the quality is great and last a lot longer than the cheaper versions.

 

You may wish to take a look at such an option?

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited December 29, 2020 by BANYAN

[GuntherMT]

4 hours ago, Mike Y said:

Thanks Gaetan, nice to know!

 

Sometimes I wonder how everybody else drills the treenail holes inside the hull? Most of the build logs omit that process, just showing a thousand neatly aligned holes  I can't believe that it's all drilled by hand with a pin vice, especially since it is too long to reach some areas on the extremums of the hull. 

 

I think I included a little bit about it in my AVS log, but I could be wrong.  I just chucked up a small drill in my Dremel using a flex-line thing so it's easier to handle, then used lines of thin masking tape (the Tamiya model masking tape) on the deck to give myself guide lines and then hand drilled all of them.  They aren't perfectly aligned, but then neither are the real thing on real ships!

[garyshipwright]

6 hours ago, Mike Y said:

Thanks Gaetan, nice to know!

 

Sometimes I wonder how everybody else drills the treenail holes inside the hull? Most of the build logs omit that process, just showing a thousand neatly aligned holes  I can't believe that it's all drilled by hand with a pin vice, especially since it is too long to reach some areas on the extremums of the hull. 

Mike, Dremel makes a 90 degree attachment for their motor tool and cost is about 30 dollars. They also make a shaft tool that also has a 90 degree attachment but am not sure the cost on that one. I own the motor tool attachment and comes in handy for drilling hole's on the in side of the hull and comes in real handy for drilling all of those holes. Are the straight most of the time no but that's ok, like somebody side they wasn't straight in real life either. Gary

[cog]

Mike I've got this Dremel head. If you are interested you can get it from me since I got two of them.

 

Let me know if you want it, and I'll send it to you

[AON]

FYI 

The official response from DREMEL regarding their right angle drill attachment and their flex-shaft:

 

"Unfortunately, the right angle and the flex shaft are both attachments for our rotary tools, but are not compatible with each other."

 

Seems like a missed opportunity and short sightedness on the part of their engineering and marketing group... and so I suggested they might want to get their design group working on it.  Of course I expect no action, but will be pleasantly surprised if a year and a half from now it is offered.

[cog]

1 hour ago, AON said:

FYI 

The official response from DREMEL regarding their right angle drill attachment and their flex-shaft:

 

"Unfortunately, the right angle and the flex shaft are both attachments for our rotary tools, but are not compatible with each other."

 

Seems like a missed opportunity and short sightedness on the part of their engineering and marketing group... and so I suggested they might want to get their design group working on it.  Of course I expect no action, but will be pleasantly surprised if a year and a half from now it is offered.

Nothing new there. Why should they, now they can invent another attachment to sell at most likely an even higher price

[Mike Y]

Pat, very interesting idea, thanks for sharing the link!

Heard about the dental tools, but always postponed the purchase due to their price. Maybe it's time to go for another ebay hunt

 

Carl, thanks for the generous offer, I'll keep it in mind! No need so far, and it mounts to the full-size Dremel, which is too bulky and aggressive to be brought close to the model, I'm a bit scared of it after using the mini dremel tool..

 

I've now realised what made my life more difficult than it should be - it's a small downside of the Hahn building method. The top of the hull is higher and narrower than it should be due to dummy parts that attach it to the jig, so it really limits the angle of the tool that you can use inside the hull.

(The photo is quite old)

It would not be an issue once the hull is cut free, but that would happen way further down the road.

 

At the moment my handmade drill seems to work just fine, already drilled and treenailed a quarter of the inner planks. To be on the safe side and avoid overheating I simply switch it off after every row of holes and move over to drawing bamboo through a drawplate for a few minutes. That way I keep a roughly 1:1 ratio of holes-to-treenailing-stock, and switch tasks to break the monotony - otherwise it's too easy to phase out and make some dumb mistake  

Edited December 30, 2020 by Mike Y

[BANYAN]

No problem Mike, happy to hear it was of interest.  I use quite a few dental and jewellers tool at the scales I work with (1:72) as they are very well made usually and offer a lot to our hobby also

 

 I am no electrician or electronics guy, but I think there are inline thermal overload switch /fuse you can put into the main lead?  This would then ensure you have no issues, especially if you are happy with what you have made.

 

I found this which may help? protection-datasheet-2017.indd (oeelectrics.co.uk)

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited December 30, 2020 by BANYAN

[Mike Y]

I have a shameful confession: since the beginning of the build, I've never actually read who Oliver Cromwell was further than a basic summary. "Some aristocratic British dude, whatever, I like the model". In hindsight that was not the smartest thing, it's like picking a rare name for your child without googling it first 🤦‍♂️

Over the last year I found more and more articles about him and his legacy, and it started to smell pretty bad. History (and the present) have had enough brutal authoritarian tyrants, and Cromwell was a pretty dedicated one. I started feeling shame and disgust when opening my own build log, like it's a dirty word that may be actually offensive. I hereby apologise to Irish for my ignorance..

 

Luckily, there is a way out without deviating from history - that ship was renamed once it was captured by HMS Beaver. The new name was very creative - "Beavers Prize" - probably to make sure nobody would contest the origin of the vessel   It's great! It has no relation to any historical figures, a bit humorous and may work as a conversation starter  The spelling is not so obvious (Beaver's Prize is also used), but I would use the simpler spelling with no apostrophe, same as on the original NMM plans. 

So from now on this log is renamed accordingly.  Horrah to the Beaver!   

 

There are a few modifications that need to be done. When captured, it was measured and the plans were drafted. While there, some improvements were suggested and then implemented:

* Second double-level capstan (I guess capstans were like clamps - you can never have too many)

* Improved lower deck layout

* Fore mast moved ahead a bit

* New galley stove installed

 

Quote from the Hahn's book "Ships of The American Revolution":

 

Suggested changes are drawn as a dotted line on the NMM plan: 

 

I really like that changes, especially the second capstan - it would make the quarter deck a bit more interesting.

 

P.S.: the actual construction is going well, all treenails are in place and I'm sanding and scraping the internal planking. Will post photos once that phase is completed.

[AON]

Regarding the name

I almost passed on looking at your build but then thought I was being stupid... after all, some ships were renamed two or three times. I had no idea what your ship might be.   I am glad I took a peek.

Alan O'Neill

(From the Irish County Cork O'Neills)

[GuntherMT]

I like the renaming Mike.  Was slightly confused when a ship I'd never heard of came up in my notifications though!  Lol..  

[mtaylor]

I'm liking the rename, Mike. And the build will be "improved" by the yard's modifications.   

[cog]

I don't like it, sorry, just like the unnecessary hype to ruin history all over the globe by a certain  group. You do not need to like history but it defines where you come from. If you deny that, you deny who you are.

[GuntherMT]

49 minutes ago, cog said:

I don't like it, sorry, just like the unnecessary hype to ruin history all over the globe by a certain  group. You do not need to like history but it defines where you come from. If you deny that, you deny who you are.

 

Choosing to build the ship at a later date isn't denying history though, he's building the ship when it carried a different name. 

[Mike Y]

Carl, I'm not denying the history or suggest to remove Cromwell from all the books. I just don't want him anywhere close such a intimate thing like a model that you put hundreds or hours and elbow grease into   In the same way as I would never build a model of Herman Göring's yacht.

And, as Brian mentioned, I am lucky to have a choice - the ship was captured, slightly modified and renamed, it's not too late to pick the version to build. 

 

So back to the modelling!

 

Roughly 1200 holes were drilled, the Buzzr did its job perfectly with zero broken bits! 💪

 

Bamboo treenails were glued in

 

Resulting in a pretty satisfying sight  

 

Pointy bits were cut off and most of the glue was removed with a dremel with nylon bristle brush. The hull was covered in plastic since this process is quite messy, small bits of glue are statically charged a bit and stick to everything.

 

Now the best part - sanding and fairing. I really love this one, turns an ugly uneven surface into a neat and clean one (unless there are gaps)  

 

Hahn jig is really convenient for such work, since you can actually lean on it and rest your hands on it without damaging the model. That allows you to work precisely and for a longer periods of time with elbows resting.  I can really recommend constructing support like this even if you do not use Hahn's method. 

Nevermind my corona haircut

 

 

Wide gauge chisel (Pfeil #7) came in handy for removing the remaining glue residue in hard-to-reach areas, as well as fairing the planks. It's surprisingly easy to control, can definitely recommend this tool.

 

The rest was done with a combination of sanding, scraping and chiseling. Final sanding grit was just 400 instead of a usual 600-1200.

 

Here is the end result. Notice how the treenail color is quite different, even though they were all cut from the same wood that looks identical from the outside. I know the the nail pattern is not entirely correct, as an excuse - it was marked up a year ago!  

 

It's definitely not perfect, there are a few tiny gaps and dings, but it's good to practice on an internal planking (that would be barely visible afterwards), to build up skills for the more exposed areas.

 

Now it's time to apply some finish (at least to get an even treenail color), but I have no idea which one to use - these planks are actually the first boxwood parts on the model! All my finishing experiments were on pear, cherry and walnut, and the results are very wood-specific. I definitely do not want to turn this boxwood dark green-ish or dark yellow, ideally want to keep the color as light as possible. My guess is that oil is not the way to go, but some kind of sanding sealer would be better. Will make some samples and try all the main finishes I have before using them on the model.

 

Feels a bit wasteful to spend quite a lot of boxwood for these experiments, considering its price and availability... But I wasted less than budgeted on whoopsies and redos, so there is a bit of a reserve  

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Mike Y

[AON]

Mike

Do you put a dab of glue in the drilled hole and then inset the treenail, or do you chamfer the lead corner of the treenail as a leader to help initial insertion and apply a dab of glue to the end of the treenail then insert it?

 

[Mike Y]

Alan, putting glue into each hole would be quite messy and complicated, every second counts here since it's quite a lot of treenails.

The holes are a bit oversized to allow for glue (otherwise it is very hard to push, and such a thin treenail breaks easily). The oversizing is small though - instead of a "proper" diameter of "the third smallest hole on Byrnes drawplate" I use the second smallest hole.

The end of the treenail is dipped into a small puddle of fresh glue and inserted, then trimmed with scissors immediately. In 5min glue get slowly sucked into the hole, I had no issues with treenails falling off even in areas where I need to shave off quite a lot of wood afterwards.

No chamfering of a lead corner, instead I make sure to "open up" the hole by gently poking a round tip of a wood scriber into it. It does not change the diameter of the hole, just opens up the entrance from loose fibers and other obstructions. 

It takes a bit of practice to "sense" a hole when there is a glue drop obstructing the view. But after a while it gets easy and relaxing.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Mike Y

[AON]

Thanks for the info Mike

It looked like the glue was in the hole first and seemed awkward. 

[Wintergreen]

Very nice planking there Mike!

Really sweet. And boxwood, don't think I'll ever use it, but it seems quite extraordinary.

 

Keep it up!