HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...

[dafi]

Made a small scale to measure the required length ...

 

 

... and put the blocks into my serving machine. The compass allows easy reading of the required length.

 

 

Fitted the lanyards, fixed with glue ...

 

 

... and wrapped around.

 

 

Looked strange and impracticable, so decided to consult the literature again. Then tried a final wrap in the middle and ended up with no major wrapping, just a big loop and some minor wrapping in the middle. Looks much more logical.

 

 

The the final assembly on the trucks and it finally worked the way I wanted!

 

 

So after months of no sleep, dafi finally will have a good rest tonight :-)

 

Sleep well all of you and dream of me nicely ...

 

... that is what one could call nightmares ;-)

[mtaylor]

Simply...WOW!!!!!  

[popeye the sailor]

I notice that you didn't put eye bolts in the bulwark....not that it matters,  but i figured I'd mention it      a lot of detail.......and you still have quite a few cannons to fit out.  they will look really good though,  once your finished.   great work Dr. Dafi!

[dafi]

Thanks Mark and got me Popeye ...

 

That was the corner that was too tricky for wanted result: it will not show to apparent on the pictures :-)

 

This is just a omission for the lower decks, visible guns will be fitted properly, promised!

 

Dr. dafi

[popeye the sailor]

folks like us.......we'd be all over it  ........but the normal person looking at her wouldn't think in that small a detail.  the cannons visible from the spar deck would need to be done ........I like it....looks great!  yepper.......needs to be some sort of rigging to hold those buggers in place! 

[youngtiger1]

Well, I guess I'll be following along another cool WIP thread here. I just purchased this kit at a price that I couldn't refuse and then I found a toy donkeys head under my pillow... family played a joke because we just got done watching Godfather series on TMC?? on TV. Anyway, you're doing great I'm already picking up a lot of useful information. I tell ya, this website as whole is a gold mine 

Mike

[dafi]

Thank you very much :-)

 

... so easy going tackle knitting watching Sanctuary on TV ...

 

... goes down the hand easily ...

 

... or better saying the serving machine :-)

 

 

XXXDAn

[popeye the sailor]

isn't mass production fun 

[gjdale]

Great stuff Daniel - ingenious, as always.

[rwiederrich]

Great mods and redo's.  I love what you have done.  I use that same copper tape..have so for over 35 years.  It is wonderful.

 

Thanks for posting...great combination of wood and plastic. Looks superb.

 

 

Rob

[ianmajor]

Daniel,

 

Clever stuff. Must remember that when I start rigging.

[dafi]

Thank you, soon to be restarted :-)

 

Daniel

[dafi]

*blow*

 

*cough*

 

... only been away for 57 years and already that much dust?

 

*think*

 

What was my favorite pass-time here?

 

*scratichingthebeard*

 

Oh yes, there was someting - DEMOLITION!!!

 

 

... okokokokok ...

 

... I know, that the side entry port was already "finally" fixed, but it was stronger than me :-)

 

...hihihihihihihi...

 

XXXDAn

[chris watton]

A truly excellent, and inspirational thread.

[dafi]

Thank you Chris!

 

:-)

 

DAniel

[amateur]

What did you discover about the entry-port?

That it was not there at all??

 

Jan

[dafi]

To be honest ...

 

... I do personally strongly believe that there is more evidence that it was not there than those that it was. :-)

 

But it is a too nice feature to be omitted in the build - so I took some castings to add to my resin parts.

 

XXXDAn

Edited October 4, 2013 by dafi

[chris watton]

To be honest ...

 

... I do personally strongly believe that there is more evidence that it was not there than those that it was. :-)

 

But it is a too nice feature to be omitted in the build - so I took some castings to add to my resin parts.

 

XXXDAn

I too have thought long and hard about this. My conclusion was that I think the entry ports were there, but the top and bottom were built up to resemble the adjacent gun ports when out of harbour, and perhaps even a 'jury lid' made, ready for a lengthy sea commission. However, all the records show that the middle gun deck had 28 cannon, and not the 30 of the decks above and below. Could the captain have ordered an extra two cannons while the ship was being victualed - thus not being shown on official records?

[dafi]

I never had the time to do a complete research in the NMM.

 

It looks to me that the entry port disappeared somehow from the drawings in the 1780´s (because of wartimes - American War of Independence?) and just reappeared in the 1805´s.

 

A complete survey of all the three decker´s plans and models should perhaps clarify this and especially the dates. Another thing is, that the plans just show the starboard side and remember that at one point the ports were only on the port side. Does not make things easier ...

 

So I enjoy the bit of artistic license ;-)

 

The other thing is the question of how these ports was shut. So far - even with the help of the board here - no strong hint was found. All model that I found so far lack a door. 

See more:

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/333-side-entry-ports-on-british-first-and-second-rates/

 

XXXDAn

Edited October 4, 2013 by dafi

[chris watton]

It is surprising, isn't it, just how many details on this ship are in grey area territory.

 

If the ports were present, I am pretty sure the men would have used some kind of ad-hoc method of covering it/them - canvas, leather or wood perhaps.

 

But the question remains, why only 28 cannon for the middle deck? They were certainly designed with the entry ports in mind, I think. But in the real world, in the midst of all out war, long blockades and thousands of nautical miles away from home, I guess anything goes.

Edited October 4, 2013 by chris watton

[dafi]

That too is my opinion, the 28 guns are one of the strongest hints for the port. At no time that were 30 guns recorded in the books, for me a "must" if the door would have been replaced by a gunport, otherwise the first two or the last gunport would have been idle.

 

At least for bad weather there must have been a cover, and in my opinion not only canvas or leather.

 

But that is the interesting bit on this ship: Although believed to be that well explored and boring and a hundred thousend times being build - there are still so many open questions. And I love to stir a little bit in that pot - a friend of mine would call it "fascinating" ;-)

 

XXXDAn

Edited October 4, 2013 by dafi

[dafi]

As I always like to visualise and try out my thoughts, here are some versions on a mere speculation basis. 

 

Single board on the outside

 

Half doors opening outside:

 

Single board on the inside:

 

Half doors on the inside (like quarter galleries)

 

 

... just works out on the inside.

 

And a version like on fire ships as seen in construction and fitting: Half board on the bottom and half lids on the upper half.

 

Cheers, Daniel

Edited October 7, 2013 by dafi

[realworkingsailor]

Just a thought... If you go with a door, typically ship's doors open outwards so that water pressure would force the door tighter into it's frame (just like the gun ports), making it easier to keep weather tight.

 

A door opening inwards risks getting blown open by the first wave that decides to crash the party.

 

 

Andy

[Kevin]

i left the parts in place but filled the hole opening in - kind of resembles a door,

[amateur]

Hmm... the most obvious is not necessarilly the most pleasing to the eye.....

 

Jan

[dafi]

As for my personal opinion seeing those tests: I also would discard the inside board for the same reason Andy gives. The half lid doors are one more gap that could leak, on top the inside half doors have a slight problem with the deck because of the thumbledom and a even bigger one because of the hanging knees, that prevent opening more than 90°.

The fire ship doors is a too sophisticated feature and I believe it would have been shown.

 

The "single outside board solution" would give some intersting thoughts. It just requires battens or a small recess like the gun ports inside the opening to be pressed /pulled against. This could be done by some eyebolts and some simple lashing from the inside. As it is not part of the structure and not a permanent fitting, this could explain why it is never represented in the models - it was seen as a mere board. Another hint could be the panelling of the inside of the door frame, this one looks much more like an internal fitting than an outside part of the ship.

 

But as mentioned before, these are pure speculations, hard proves still missing. But perhaps it allows to get a closer idea, what we are searching for, like special construction details. The only thing I found so far is, that NMM´s plans of Nelson and Caledonia show the usual gunport arrangement of eyebolts around the entry port, as if this port also was used for guns on occasions. And seen the concave outside of the hull, those breeching-eyebolts in the middle would already guarantee a secure lashing of the board against battens or recess ...

 

 

Here still is a small color variation of my personal favorite:

Yellow door at the end of 1804 before Nelson took possession of her and ...

 

 

... after he introduced his checker on the port lids :-)

 

 

XXXDAn

Edited October 8, 2013 by dafi

[amateur]

The question is: would Nelson recognise this entry-port....

 

There is a nice model in NMM showing Victory as she was supposed to be n 1803 without the entry-ports.http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66474.html

There is alos a model that shows victory as she was supposed to be in 1805 sith entryports and even a platform outside the hull....

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66475.html

 

The one without is assumed to be the contemporary model

 

 

Jan

Edited October 8, 2013 by amateur

[dafi]

The first one contemporary, but as build or as supposed to be build or a study? Some odd features especially around the bow.

The second one is as build, as the channels are sitting lower and the gallery is still open.

 

As I said before, there are seemingly more hints (not proves) that she was without.

 

XXXDAn

[popeye the sailor]

very interesting.......not even a trace of it in the earlier ship........what a difference a few years makes 

[patrickmil]

I'm wondering if that door was added later on when Victory wasn't being used as a warship for easy entry? I read the Wikipedia article:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Victory

 

and noticed this particular paragraph:

 

In 1889, Victory was fitted up as a Naval School of Telegraphy. She soon became a proper Signal School, and signal ratings from ships paying off were sent to Victory, instead of the barracks, for a two-month training course. The School remained on Victory until 1904, when training was transferred temporarily to HMS Hercules, and in 1906 the whole School was moved to a permanent establishment at the Chatham Royal Naval Barracks.^[38]

 

I would guess that they added the door at that time as Victory wasn't expecting to be put to sea ever again. Those are just my thoughts on the matter.