HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 by Chuck - FINISHED - 1:48 scale - kit prototype

[Fam]

I absolutely quote Nils, I can't believe how simple and smooth you are making it to appear!

Fam

[Alex M]

Hi Chuck, excellent planking job! Very clear and smooth!

 

Christian, I'm not Chuck, sorry, but if you look at the image with red painted counter in Chuck's previous post, you will notice a small step between them and tuck. The tuck will be planked later, and all will follow the plan. Very smart solution, Chuck!

 

Alex

[lb0190]

This model is actually not that small.   At 1/4" scale the hull is 17 3/4" long......fully rigged she is 29 1/4" long....and 25.5" tall.

 

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

 

The ship looks like a great future build for many of us and as usual your work is an inspiration. I regard to the size, would you mind posting a picture or two with something next to the ship for reference, such as your hand, a tool or whatever floats your boat... Sorry I could not help myself.

[Chuck]

I will do that on the next update.....

 

Christian...It is the square tuck that you are seeing.  Its actually curved slightly to follow the counter.   So you see it as a triangle on the plan.  Thats what I am going to start next.  Shouldnt be long before another update with that.  See what it looks like on the Rogers Collection cutter model.

 

 

Chuck

[michael mott]

Absolutely exquisite work on the planking chuck!! I am inspired to do a much better job next time I have to do planking.

 

You should write a tutorial on Planking

 

Michael

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Chuck,

 

yes that's exactly what I am missing. This part makes me in the moment some problems during the reconstruction of the Alert.

Do you have some otehr pictures of this cutter model which you can share?

Edited December 12, 2014 by AnobiumPunctatum

[amateur]

On that last picture, there is a part on the lower counter i don't understand: is the planking rabetted into the sides of the lower counter, or is theresome kind of strip attached over the planking to give strength/protection.

 

Jan

[Chuck]

Jan

 

The square tuck frame should be rabbeted so the hull planking and square tuck planking has the the butt ends protected from the elements.   The lower counter planking has its butt ends protected by the fashion pieces.  The strip between the lower counter and the square tuck is just a fancy molding strip and cosmetic.

 

I have about 40 pictures of this model from every conceivable angle.  Just havent had the time to reduce them so I can post them.

 

But if you want to see any particular area let me know and I will reduce and post those....If you click on the picture above in that post it gets really big...you can see that detail..The fancy molding strip is placed too low however on that model in my opinion.  The frame for the square tuck needs to be a consistent width all of the way around to look good.  Thats the hard part but in a few steps it can be done without incident.

 

Chuck

[petervisser]

Hi Chuck,

 

I am really enjoying your Cheerful unfold. Beautiful craftsmanship!

 

My question is, the wood you are using for your hull planking. Is it boxwood, and could you recommend a a supplier?

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

[Chuck]

Thanks

 

Its all Boxwood and from Hobbymill.   Jeff was kind enough to cut me all the wood for the lower planking and the remainder of the project from a really nice piece.  Its the best boxwood I have ever seen.  

 

Heres a picture...I should have waited so I could use this better stuff above teh wales...but most of that will be covered up anyway.  So it should be OK.

 

 

Chuck

 

OH and another not so flattering image of the square tuck on that contemporary model.  Lots of cracks and damage.  It looks pretty beat up.  Also the last photo shows teh cheerful drawing I made.....you can see the differences

 

I dont think its the original blue paint on that model.   My reason is that you can see bits of it within the splits and cracks which means it was painted after the cracks developed.

 

 

[Chuck]

And one last image of the contemporary planking expansion detail.   It shows the square tuck pretty well.  For those that might have one on there model although its unlikely.  I have never seen a kit that shows one.  They are usually left off because they can be rather complex.  You can also see the number of planks....twenty which matches my model exactly.   Ten down to the bottom of the square tuck and ten more below that.  Hence the two planking belts I used.

 

Chuck

 

[Chuck]

I am not sure what you mean....wood list or materials list???   Since its a scratch project more or less there are no parts to inventory.  Except for those few I mentioned so far.

 

As far as a wood list goes...I do have a preliminary.  I wont know for certain until after I build her.  Its impossible to know before its built with 100% certainty.

 

The wood list I have used and stocked up on are as follows.  It should be very close. Remember that this is not a kit.

 

1/4" Ply 4' x 4'

 

All boxwood sheets are 24" long......and 3" wide

 

7/32" Boxwood sheet  2

1/4" ........1

1/8" ........2

5/32" .......2

3/16 .........5

1/16" .......3

1/32" .......3

.025 ........1

3/32" ........1 but maybe 2 sheets depending.

 

One 3/8" x 3/8"  strip for the lower mast 24" long

 

Basswood sheets....

 

1/32" ....two sheets

1/16" ...2 sheets

[JPZ66]

Thanks for posting Chuck !

 

Joe

[Stuntflyer]

Ditto!

 

Mike

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Thanks for posting the pictures. That helps me a lot.

 

 

And one last image of the contemporary planking expansion detail.   It shows the square tuck pretty well.  For those that might have one on there model although its unlikely.  I have never seen a kit that shows one.

 

I don't think so. I found hints on it at my Alert drawing, on the drawing of Racer 1808 and on the Speedy drawing of 1818.

If a kit does not show this detail it's not a reason that it was not there.

Edited December 12, 2014 by AnobiumPunctatum

[tkay11]

Chuck, I'm sorry to ask this again, but looking at your list of wood sizes ordered, they are all in inches and fractions of inches and I'm having another wobbly.

 

In the UK I'd be ordering thicknesses of wood in millimetres. If you just have one layer of planking, and we stick to the plans, wouldn't that make the thickness rather crucial?

 

Similarly, if the bulkheads, or frames, are given a certain spacing, wouldn't that have some impact on the length and/or the positioning of cut-outs for ports etc?

 

In my own amateurish build of the Sherbourne, the instructions and plans were based on 1mm thicknesses of planks. Without thinking too much about it, I did the 2nd layer of planking with 0.5mm wood. This led to a difficulty when it came to matching the thickness to the wales (although I can't quite remember what that difficulty was since I obviously managed somehow!).

 

I also can imagine that changing the thickness of the bulkheads and the keel from inches to mm might end up in some confusion.

 

We can't order in fractions of a millimetre, although we can order 0.5 and 0.6mm fairly easily. So when we look at the plans, how would we factor in the necessary conversions? Are the plans giving original measurements or do you think that the differences would be so small as not to make any difference to the construction at this scale?

 

I really hope I am not missing something blindingly obvious here, but I seem to remember a discussion in MSW 1.0 about problems of converting plans from inches to metric. I think this involved the sizes of the frames rather than anything else.

 

Please ignore and allow others to berate me if I am really being dense! This may be one of those occasions when the dislike button can be pressed!

 

Tony

[Chuck]

Yes but its easy enough to do the conversion....in fact there are many translators on the web for free.  You type in the imperial number and it gives you the metric equivalent.  If its close you will be good to go.  I wish I could do more but short of doing the translations myself for every part and material (which I wont do)   I dont see how it could cause a problem.   

 

Use this chart

 

http://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm

 

Couldnt you order your wood in in imperial measurements if they are being milled for you in the UK?  If I ask say Jeff to cut me stock at 3mm thick he will certainly do that.  Wouldnt a source in the UK do that too but in reverse?  If not,  just use the chart to convert before ordering.   But I cant take the time to do this many conversions.  You will have to print out the chart when ordering your wood and possibly order a ruler or two with imperial measurements on it for the project.  Then you are good to go.  All materials will be listed in the monograph with imperial sizes when I use them....so you will know how large to cut stuff by using your new imperial ruler of measurement.  All of my rulers have metric on one side and imperial on the other so I dont see why it causes a problem if you had one of these and used a conversion chart.  I do it all the time.

 

Chuck

[tkay11]

Thanks, Chuck. I don't think I was expecting you to do the conversions! It's amazing that you are doing all the work you do -- let alone re-adjust your whole plan to accommodate a question like this! I was just wondering how we'd do it in practice.

 

I know it is a simple matter of multiplying by 25.4.  I think I was just asking that if we did have it in mm, or since my saw is calibrated in mm, whether cutting to the nearest single decimal point would have enough cumulative tolerance over long distances  to have no problems in building. The following is the conversion for the sizes you posted which shows the very slight differences if I was to ask for cuts in mm, or to cut it myself:

 

ins        dec ins      mm          nearest mm for cutting purposes

0.025    0.025        0.635        0.6

1/32      0.03125    0.79375    0.8

1/16      0.0625      1.5875      1.6

3/32      0.09375    2.38125    2.4

1/8        0.125        3.175        3.2

5/32      0.15625    3.96875    4.0

3/16      0.1875      4.7625      4.8

7/32      0.21875    5.55625    5.6

1/4        0.25          6.35          6.4

3/8        0.375        9.525        9.5

 

I think the best thing for me will be to wait till I get the plans. I can then estimate whether these slight differences will accumulate or not. I can see that it might well be possible and easier to order wood cut to inches, so I'll have to find out. Although currently I have no concept of what quarters, eighths sixteenths and thirty-seconds look like, it'll be good for me to learn, given that so many plans that are available are in inches and feet.

 

Sorry for asking again, and thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

Tony

[Chuck]

I think that little bit wont matter.  You may have to adjust the slot widths in the bulkheads and bulkhead former...but thats it.  The plans for example call for 1/16" thick planking....because its a readily available size....but because I am milling my own stock,  the planks are actually 3/64" thick.   That is closer to scale and easier to work with.   So feel free as I have done to change things up.   As long as you think ahead or shoot me the question before hand,  you should be good to go.  Again this is the beauty of a scratch build.  You have some flexibility as long as you think through the consequences.  Following the plans will do the trick...when you adjust any wood sizes...think about what you will need to adjust on the plans....but it may not even be needed.

 

Chuck

[tkay11]

And of course if the planks are too thick that allows for good sanding!

 

Very grateful, as always, for your help and thoughts.

 

Tony

[NMBROOK]

Exceptionally neat planking work Chuck     Not to deviate off topic too much,but Tony the good quality Birch ply desireable for bulkheads sold in the UK is still made in imperial sizes,I have some 1/4 inch in the workshop.The metric stuff is either liteply for RC aeroplanes or rubbish stuff made in China that is full of voids

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Tony,

 

there is not really a problem. I buy my timber at a supplier in Germany, who  cuts it to every size with a precision of 1/10mm. I think that this is precise enough for a scratch build model. http://www.modellbau-holzleisten.de/

[tkay11]

Thanks, Christian. Sorry to have pushed this off topic. 0.1mm is what I can do as well with my Proxxon saw, and I'd expect that from a supplier. My feeler gauges are in 0.1mm increments. That's why I put the column for expected cutting tolerance on the right in my post #232 above to one decimal place, or 0.1mm.

 

The differences from the conversion appear small, but I was worried that over a long distance between bulkheads or for the planking or, as Chuck says, between bulkheads and former, those small differences might make a problem.

 

I have become used to seeing differences of less than 0.1mm on my own model, but that is at 1/64 scale, and it might be less problematic at 1/48. As a complete novice and having no experience at all of how it might play out I thought I'd still ask.

 

However, Chuck has given me the solid advice: "Following the plans will do the trick...when you adjust any wood sizes...think about what you will need to adjust on the plans....but it may not even be needed". And as Nigel has said, in the UK, at least, there is still stuff off the shelves in inches.

 

Apologies to Chuck for posting on his log -- I just thought this discussion might be useful for Europeans and others who work in metric as well and who are intensely interested in this great project.

 

Tony

[kapiteinhadock]

It's true Tony, I'm following Chuck's build as well and I would love to try and build the cutter but i'm a bit afraid of the measurements, for somebody who grew up in the metric system it's very hard to adapt to the imperial measurements. 

 

Great work Chuck I really like the build!

 

Jantje

[mcpwilk]

Just remember when you are working out what thickness of wood to use that you will be rubbing down the hull and deck to get a smooth finish and that the original planks would have been produced with an adze and not machined. The width of the planks is more critical for scale, and this is down to the modeller if sheet wood is bought.

 

I'm interested that your cutter is carvel built, I've always found clinker easier....

 

Mike

[bigcreekdad]

Chuck....looks fantastic. BTW, where did you get the pinstripe tape?

 

Thanks/John

[Chuck]

Thanks

 

Any art store will have the pinstripe tape.   Graphic arts tape...

 

Clinker planking may in fact be easier for you but in the case of the Cheerful it would just be wrong historically.  I find it difficult to clinker plank a hull.  I havent seen many hulls that are done properly or to my satisfaction...so I chose a carvel planked hull.  I think most model builders prefer this anyway.  Its what they are used to.

[Chuck]

The Square tuck....Thank goodness this isnt a real POF project.  Here is the simplified version.

 

The photo below shows the first beam added which to create teh base for the stern post.  It runs down the center of the square tuck so I can glue the stern post on later.  It is 1/8" thick and 7/32" wide.  The same width as the stern post

 

The same photo below shows the second timber....how I took a wider piece that was 1/8" thick.  I shaped it so the seam between the lower counter and this timber was very tight.   Then I measured and marked it so it would be 1/8" wide as well.  This will of course be repeated on the other side once it is planked.

 

 

The finished timber below.

 

 

Then it was time to create the side piece which will finish the square tuck frame....this was the hardest piece but not that difficult at all.   I just took a larger 1/8" thick piece of boxwood and shaped it to fit tightly against the two timbers I just just completed.  I tried to get real tight seams. At the same time,  it hangs off the side of the hull.  Then I traced the shape of the hull against the back of this piece.

 

 

Heres what the tracing looks like.  The piece was cut to shape on the scroll saw.

 

 

Then,  this piece was temporarily glued back in position with just a small dot of CA.   This was done because it will need to be removed after it is faired with the hull planking.  See below.  And as done before,  I drew another line to establish a 1/8" wide finished timber.  This was cut out and glued into position finishing the frame for the square tuck on this side of the hull.

 

 

Here is what it looks like.

 

 

 

Finally....it was planked inside with vertical planks the same width as the hull planking.  Tarred seams were simulated.   I was very careful to get very tight seams.   In actual practice these planks would be normal thickness and the ends resting in a rabbet along the edges of the square tuck frame.

 

In my case though,  I just faked it using planking that was actually 1/8" thick which is the same thickness as the frame.   It all worked out in the end.  I am quite pleased with the results as this is normally a really tough detail to model convincingly.   Now to touch up the red paint on the counter or maybe its just best to wait till the planking is all done.

 

 

 

 

I can now start planking the last belt  on the starboard side.

[Mirabell61]

wonderful work Chuck !

 

Nils

[GLakie]

Beautiful craftsmanship Chuck! Hope you and yours have a great Holiday Season! 

 

Cheers